Logic Studio 8 & Sound Equipment

[starnox]

Just after some information regarding Logic Studio 8 and sound equipment needed.

I currently have a 24 channel mixing desk which I use for live bands and conferences etc. I was wondering if you could use logic as a virtual mixing desk?

If so what sort of equipment would I need to get all the channels into logic. We currently have a multi-coil coming from the stage to the sounddesk all in XLR. However I haven't seen an interfaces with loads of XLR ports. Take that Apogee Ensemble that only has 4 XLR ports. So do I need multiple Ensembles or something?

On stage we usually have 6 vocal mics, 2 radio mics (so I am guessing these all have to be XLR). Then 4 guitars and piano get converted to XLR via a DI box for use in the mutli-coil. I'm guessing these could use the 1/4" jack ports on the ensemble? Then things like the effects unit, dvd & cd would all be handled by the mac so that's not a problem. It also looks like logic and the ensemble can handle multiple output sources for all the 4 monitors feeds and the main mix feed.

Feel free to correct me where needed. I know how to operate a mac and do the sound desk, it's just all the connections which confuse me.

Maybe the ensemble isn't what I need since it only has 4 XLR ports. I don't know why they advertise it as 36 channel input as I can only see 4 xlr, and 4 1/4" jack ports.

Any advise on what hardware would be idea and if logic studio 8 would be up to live sound mixing & recording. I would probably get a Mac Pro for this as I don't know if an iMac could handle all of live audio channels?

Cheers, and sorry if I sound like a noob

 

[Murdock]

They list it as a 36 channel simultaneous device, that is 36 in and out total. I count 18 inputs(8 analog where 4 have preamps, 8 ADAT and 2 SPDIF). This means you have to convert 10 of your incoming signals to ADAT and SPDIF and even then you don't have the 24 inputs your console has.

Another option is the Fireface 800. It sports 10 analog in and 16 ADAT in(+2 SPDIF but i hardly ever count those). It has only 4 preamps just like the Ensemble so you will need 18 external pre's(unless you know you won't ever use that many mics of course) and also an ADAT converter. Options for converters include Focusrites Octopre and M-Audio's Octane. These will give you both 8 channels of audio converted to ADAT and 8 preamps. They are not the creme of the crop though and many frown at the preamps. If you wish to get separate converters and preamps there is a plethora of different options.

The only thing i can say about using the Fireface 800 with Logic and a Mac is that it's quite a common way to record live shows and i know several people who's produced excellent results this way. I can't really give an opinion on the live mixing part because i've never seen Logic or any other sequencer app used that way. My spontanteous reaction however is that the workflow in sequencer apps is not adapted for live mixing at all. If you only do simple arrangements templates might get you far but nothing beats the hands on approach of an analog (style) console when it comes to live situations imo.

 

[starnox]

Ok thanks for the information, what's ADAT?

 

[Murdock]

A very common digital audio format where usually 8 channels of audio are transferred through an optical wire. Here's a starter.

 

[zimv20]

I was wondering if you could use logic as a virtual mixing desk?

do you mean to replace the board you have now? if so, you'd need to replace all the mic pre's and get a similar # of a/d channels. you'd also need some d/a for all the mix outs, like mains and monitors.

in all, i think it's a bad idea, since the best tool for running FOH is a FOH board. plus, you'll get all kinds of crazy latency which will not only confuse the audience, but the band as well.

...

now, if your purpose is to run FOH and record the shows, then keep the board -- using it as you do now -- and get yerself 24 channels of a/d. the pro kind you're looking for take line level in (one option is to grab the direct out of each channel on the board) and are likely available in 8 or 16 channel configurations.

so you could, for example, get the apogee a/d-16x and an apogee rosetta 800, which would give you 24 channels in and 8 out. or you could grab two lynx units, a 16 and an 8, giving you 24 channels in each direction. not that you'd need any of that d/a for the show, BUT if you later wanted to mix the live project through the same board, those 24 d/a channels would come in handy.

fwiw, i now use apogee conversion, but if/when i upgrade to PT HD, i'll probably switch the the lynx aurora series.

 

[starnox]

do you mean to replace the board you have now? if so, you'd need to replace all the mic pre's and get a similar # of a/d channels. you'd also need some d/a for all the mix outs, like mains and monitors.

in all, i think it's a bad idea, since the best tool for running FOH is a FOH board. plus, you'll get all kinds of crazy latency which will not only confuse the audience, but the band as well.

...

now, if your purpose is to run FOH and record the shows, then keep the board -- using it as you do now -- and get yerself 24 channels of a/d. the pro kind you're looking for take line level in (one option is to grab the direct out of each channel on the board) and are likely available in 8 or 16 channel configurations.

so you could, for example, get the apogee a/d-16x and an apogee rosetta 800, which would give you 24 channels in and 8 out. or you could grab two lynx units, a 16 and an 8, giving you 24 channels in each direction. not that you'd need any of that d/a for the show, BUT if you later wanted to mix the live project through the same board, those 24 d/a channels would come in handy.

fwiw, i now use apogee conversion, but if/when i upgrade to PT HD, i'll probably switch the the lynx aurora series.

Cheers, the direct out method seems like the best solution. The desk only has 16 direct out channels so the a/d-16x sounds like the best one to go for.

However looking at the pictures I can't see how I would connect it. I am guessing a FW400/800 cable connects it to the mac? And as for the 16 balance 1/4" jacks? Do you need to get some sort of conversion cable?

Thanks for the explanation. This equipment certainly looks expensive lol

 

[zimv20]

all the apogee connections use a db25 connector, you'd have to acquire breakout cables for that (redco.com makes 'em). the apogees have an expansion port for different kinds of connections, including firewire. however, many people have had issues with them. or, you could use the built-in AES port and get an AES card for your mac, assuming you'd be bringing a tower.

so that said, maybe you do want to look at another brand, something w/ firewire already built-in that's more stable.