Long delay when pressing Option-key MP 4,1/5,1

[leifislive]

Hi,

I am running a flashed MP 2009 4,1/5,1 with the Xeon 3680. According to the system profile and Geekbench results everything goes right so far.
I also added 16GB 1333 MhZ Hynix RAM, replaced the GT120 with the HD5780 and the orignial DVD-drive with a Sony Optiarc. I then installed OSX 10.8 clean on a Samsung MZ-7PC 256 GB SSD, swapped the original 640GB HD to bay 2, in bay 3 is a 1TB WD and in bay 4 a 2TB WD harddisk. I then installed a bootcamp Win7.

Now I am wondering: I figured out, that the increased delay to the startup chime is due to the RAM and probably the 4 harddrives and may be due to the ATI. BUT, I have a long delay (20-30secs), after pressing the Option key on boot until I can select the boot drive. I found one report stating the same; but I did not find out, whether this is unchangeable or whether there is some issue.

Also, sometimes, I cannot boot into Win7 after selecting the boot camp drive.

I would appreciate help, what I could still do to improve the situation - maybe without installing everything again.

Is this a known issue with Samsung SSDs?

Thanks in advance,
Leif

 

[pastrychef]

When I boot with the [Option] key held down, it takes quite a long time before the drive options are available for me to choose as well. I thought it was normal.

 

[Dr. Stealth]

Sounds normal to me also... Has to do with how many drives and what type of interfaces.

My machine has a long boot but is very fast once up and running. I know when I went from 16GB to 64GB of ram it added 20 seconds to my boot time.

 

[ActionableMango]

The delay seems normal to me too. I suspect the Option key trigger a process that looks long and hard for all bootable options, as opposed to simply booting directly to the default.

As for why you can't boot into Windows 7 some times, I think you'll need to provide a lot more information before someone could offer advice. It could be a million things. I suspect the Samsung SSD is not part of the problem. Looking here on the forums, it seems to be a very popular drive in Mac Pros.

 

[leifislive]

Hi,

thanks for the responses so far. I chose the Samsung, since there were quite a lot of good reports about it.

In regards to Win7: it only happens rarely. I initially thought, that the problem refers to choosing the boot disk via the keyboard as opposed to using the mouse, but then I also got some "freezing" using the mouse. So what happens is, that after pressing return or clicking on the arrow, the screen turns grey, but not black... and no Win7 boot.

I have to add, that this did not happen again after windows did a lot of updating over the last weeks, so maybe the problem is gone? I'll keep an eye on it...

Thanks
Leif

 

[Macsonic]

Sounds normal to me when pressing Option key. Using a 4.1 MPro and a stock 5.1 MP ( not flashed ) and takes time as I think the machine is reading all the drives installed. Also my 2008 Mac Pro boots faster when pressing option key. A Mac technician told me it's normal for older 2008 Mac Pros to boot faster than 2009 onwards. The same also applies to older 2008 MacBook Pros compared to later models.

 

[networkguy]

I also have a flashed 4,1->5,1 with two Toshiba SSDs (OS X and Windows 7) and two Seagate HDs. Used the same drives in the 3,1 I had before it, which could boot Windows from the Option-key boot selector fine, every time. In the 4,1, -most- of the time it'll get to Windows, but sometimes the screen will go black and the fans will start running high until I power it down. Usually works on the next try. Is that what happens to you, Leif?

I can hear one of my HDs click like it read something when I choose the Windows volume from the boot selector, which makes me think that the Windows boot sector was installed to the wrong drive. It'll eventually find the Windows volume and boot to it with just that SSD in, though.

 

[leifislive]

In the 4,1, -most- of the time it'll get to Windows, but sometimes the screen will go black and the fans will start running high until I power it down. Usually works on the next try. Is that what happens to you, Leif?

Exactly! It never happened in 4,1-times... however, I didn't use a SSD then...
Is it also known for out-of-the-box 5,1s?

 

[networkguy]

No idea. I thought maybe something was a little off with my machine since it wasn't in the best condition when I got it or that I had fouled something up with my Windows install when cloning it to SSD from its original HD. Never tried dual-booting with the original 4,1 firmware. My Windows drive is also in bay 4, like yours. I haven't tried putting it in a different bay yet.

You mentioned recently getting a Radeon 5870... I had one, too, up until last month when I replaced it with a GTX 680 from MVC. I'm not sure if Windows has had problems booting since; you might be on to something there. I'll see if I can get the problem to show up again. Tried running with your GT120 again, if you still have it?

 

[leifislive]

I could try the GT120. However, since it is a little bit random, i's hard to tell...

Thanks for your ideas!

 

[monkeybagel]

I could try the GT120. However, since it is a little bit random, i's hard to tell...

Thanks for your ideas!

My thought is pretty much with everyone that posted above. I believe the machine is initializing the storage devices and reading the boot information from them. Since these are larger machines with much more expansion than their counterparts I am sure they have different firmware compared to a MacBook Pro with Retina display, which only must look at one drive when powered up.

Most workstation-class machines (i.e. Dell Precision, HP, Lenovo) would show a POST progress bar go across when it is searching for devices and testing RAM. I feel certain that most other machines with four internal drives would spin them all up and gather information on the before starting the actual boot process, and I feel this is what the Mac Pro is doing.

----------

Sounds normal to me also... Has to do with how many drives and what type of interfaces.

My machine has a long boot but is very fast once up and running. I know when I went from 16GB to 64GB of ram it added 20 seconds to my boot time.

I will have to test this on my machine. I have 128GB and I haven't really timed the POST process before the startup bong but it does seem to be longer. I should have timed it before.

 

[leifislive]

Hi,

I did a quick test in regards to my 4 drives and the CD-ROM - I disconnected them all, just leaving the Samsung 830 SSD in. Only keyboard and mouse via USB connected.

Bottom line: it takes completely the same time

16-17 seconds until chime
33-34 seconds until OSX
or
pressing ALT:
38-39 seconds until bootmenu

chime is quicker with less RAM (I tested that I while ago), but I am wondering, whether the "bootmenu-delay" is due to the SSD or the 5.1 flashing, since this was much quicker in unflashed OSX 10.6 times with the original 640GB drive...

Best regards
Leif

 

[monkeybagel]

Hi,

I did a quick test in regards to my 4 drives and the CD-ROM - I disconnected them all, just leaving the Samsung 830 SSD in. Only keyboard and mouse via USB connected.

Bottom line: it takes completely the same time

16-17 seconds until chime
33-34 seconds until OSX
or
pressing ALT:
38-39 seconds until bootmenu

chime is quicker with less RAM (I tested that I while ago), but I am wondering, whether the "bootmenu-delay" is due to the SSD or the 5.1 flashing, since this was much quicker in unflashed OSX 10.6 times with the original 640GB drive...

Best regards
Leif

I would not think so. I will see if I can test mine and see what I can get. I am curious as I never timed it before the RAM upgrade.

 

[leifislive]

Hi monkeybagel,

that'll be very intersting to know. So, you do have an "original" 5.1?

 

[monkeybagel]

Hi monkeybagel,

that'll be very intersting to know. So, you do have an "original" 5.1?

Yes I do. A 5,1 2x3.06Ghz. 128GB of RAM.

 

[networkguy]

This is going to sound absolutely absurd, but when you choose your Windows volume from the boot selector, do you use just the keyboard, just the mouse, or combination of the two?

I've gotten into the habit of using both, even if it's just wiggling the mouse, mainly due to trying random stuff trying to troubleshoot this. Today I used just the keyboard (right arrow, return), and it hung on that screen. This is with the GTX 680 so I can't really blame the 5870 any more. Powered off, booted back to OS X, then restarted and tried to boot to Windows using just the mouse (after holding Option, that is), and went in just fine. Maybe something funny with the USB controller? Maybe a timing thing (much faster with keyboard)? I'm kinda grasping at straws at this point.

I normally frown on this kind of wave-the-magic-stick sort of stuff, but there's not a lot to go on at that stage of booting.

 

[monkeybagel]

This is going to sound absolutely absurd, but when you choose your Windows volume from the boot selector, do you use just the keyboard, just the mouse, or combination of the two?

I've gotten into the habit of using both, even if it's just wiggling the mouse, mainly due to trying random stuff trying to troubleshoot this. Today I used just the keyboard (right arrow, return), and it hung on that screen. This is with the GTX 680 so I can't really blame the 5870 any more. Powered off, booted back to OS X, then restarted and tried to boot to Windows using just the mouse (after holding Option, that is), and went in just fine. Maybe something funny with the USB controller? Maybe a timing thing (much faster with keyboard)? I'm kinda grasping at straws at this point.

I normally frown on this kind of wave-the-magic-stick sort of stuff, but there's not a lot to go on at that stage of booting.

I think it is doing more behind the scenes. Macintoshes have never been very verbose in their booting process, and considering this is a workstation/server class system, I think it is probably normal for them.

I recall the PowerMac G5 doing the same thing.

To answer your question, I use the Option key and arrows on the bootpicker to select what to load.

How much RAM do you have and if you have added RAM have you noticed a difference in speed?

 

[networkguy]

To answer your question, I use the Option key and arrows on the bootpicker to select what to load.

Same as I did on my 3,1 and on my personal and work MBPs. Works every time as one would expect.

How much RAM do you have and if you have added RAM have you noticed a difference in speed?

This box started out with 2x Kingston KTA-MP1333/8G modules, and I recently added a third just for triple-channel. Didn't noticed any delay in booting after the upgrade.

That's one hell of a machine you have, by the way.

 

[leifislive]

This is going to sound absolutely absurd, but when you choose your Windows volume from the boot selector, do you use just the keyboard, just the mouse, or combination of the two?

I experienced the same, I used to have the impression that the problem occurs more often when using the keyboard, but it also occured with the mouse. However, I can't replicate it anymore since having started the thread...

It is good to know, that the graphic card is rather unlikely to be involved in this processes. The delay to the chime is rather also not related to the "boot menu problem".

@monkeybagel: How long does it take after the chime until the boot menu apperas when pressing ALT with your machine?

Thanks
Leif