Looking back on price hikes with the last Macbook Pro Update

[Ghost31]

So, another user here pointed me out to an old post here when the last macbook pros were announced saying the situation sounded similar and it does. What do you all think?

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...inch-macbook-pro-with-retina-display.1473503/

Here's a screenie of comments from the old post. And bear in mind...since these comments...the prices on the macbook pros fell by hundreds of dollars. Complaints about a $500 or so price increase and the fact that the ram doesn't go high enough

 

[tubeexperience]

That was excusable since the Retina Display (and SSD) was expensive.

There was nothing like it in the market at the time.

A price hike for an SSD and a Retina Display in 2012 doesn't seem bad.

_______________________________________________

What's the price hike for in 2016? A Touch Bar....

 

[myscrnnm]

People just have short attention spans. Looking back at reviews of past MacBook Pro releases (2008 unibody and 2012 Retina Display), commenters also criticized the computers for their high prices. The MBPs still sold great though, and had many happy users.

I think we're already seeing the same thing with the 2016 MBPs: a vocal minority complaining about the price, but many preorders that show consumers are excited for the redesign.

 

[Ghost31]

I'm gonna play devil's advocate for the sake of discussion. And the fact that its halloween so i get to play something else

That was just for SSD and a better display

This time around you get:

• 4 USB C ports which will undoubtably be better
• Way better speakers
• A 2x larger trackpad
• Touchbar with touch id which will be a welcome change
• A better display (which you listed as one of the main things that justified the price hike last time around)
• Fastest SSD available
• Better battery life
• Probably other crap i cant think of

That was excusable since the Retina Display was expensive.

There was nothing like it in the market at the time.

A price hike for an SSD and a Retina Display in 2012 doesn't seem bad.

_______________________________________________

What's the price hike for in 2016? A Touch Bar....

 

[dumastudetto]

I'm gonna play devil's advocate for the sake of discussion. And the fact that its halloween so i get to play something else

That was just for SSD and a better display

This time around you get:

• 4 USB C ports which will undoubtably be better
• Way better speakers
• A 2x larger trackpad
• Touchbar with touch id which will be a welcome change
• A better display (which you listed as one of the main things that justified the price hike last time around)
• Fastest SSD available
• Better battery life
• Probably other crap i cant think of

Most of that is just general updates you get every year as technology improves and prices come down for previous incarnations. It's undoubtedly the touchbar with its own processor that has forced Apple into increasing prices and maybe (although doubtful) the touchid sensor.

I'm sure the other items on your list would have been included in a MBP refresh at the same price as the previous years model.

 

[tubeexperience]

I'm gonna play devil's advocate for the sake of discussion. And the fact that its halloween so i get to play something else

That was just for SSD and a better display

This time around you get:

• 4 USB C ports which will undoubtably be better
• Way better speakers
• A 2x larger trackpad
• Touchbar with touch id which will be a welcome change
• A better display (which you listed as one of the main things that justified the price hike last time around)
• Fastest SSD available
• Better battery life
• Probably other crap i cant think of

Those are just incremental updates that you would expect.

They are not of the same scale as going from a non-Retina display to a Retina display or from a hard drive to a solid state drive.

 

[myscrnnm]

Most of that is just general updates you get every year as technology improves and prices come down for previous incarnations. It's undoubtedly the touchbar with its own processor that has forced Apple into increasing prices and maybe (although doubtful) the touchid sensor.

I'm sure the other items on your list would have been included in a MBP refresh at the same price as the previous years model.

Except prices for the previous models did come down; they came down over the course of the last four years the 2012 MBP has been in production. The prices we see now for the 2016 MBP are comparable to what we saw for 2012 MBPs in 2012.

 

[tubeexperience]

Except prices for the previous models did come down; they came down over the course of the last four years the 2012 MBP has been in production. The prices we see now for the 2016 MBP are comparable to what we saw for 2012 MBPs in 2012.

What I am saying is this:

The 2012 MacBook Pro was a significant improvement and people were willing to pay for that. Retina display is a significant improvement over the non-Retina display. Solid state drive was a significant improvement over hard drive. There was nothing like the MacBook Pro Retina at the time.

The 2016 MacBook Pro is just an incremental update.
Touch bar is a gimmick and faster SSDs, better battery life, etc. are just incremental improvements due to better technology.

 

[Ghost31]

Those are just incremental updates that you would expect.

They are not of the same scale as going from a non-Retina display to a Retina display or from a hard drive to a solid state drive.

Still playing devils advocate. Don't kill me

You could argue that a Retina display is the way forward we would have gone anyway. Ssd was a big deal too, but still.

The touch bar looks gimmicky, but I said the same thing about other things too. I watched the keynote 2 more times as well as hands on videos of people actually using it and I gotta admit, it looks pretty sweet. It does make sense in a lot of ways to have these contextual menus and options right there above the keyboard. Even more than a touchscreen in some ways since your hands are still on the keyboard area. You could say it's just a natural extension of what we already do.

Then there's Touch ID which benefits us in multiple day to day ways. This is a feature we will ALL use every single time we open our computers. Not just for user switching and loggin in, but Apple Pay as well. This one feature is a biggie.

You could argue the speakers are incremental as well as the keyboard (which I'm not a fan of right now) but getting a "pro" laptop to be thinner than the MacBook Air isn't just incrementally thinner. It's a big engineering challenge and one you'll notice every time you use it. I remember seeing the MacBook Air for the first time in person and having my mind blown so hard my brains were scattered all over the Apple Store. Like how can a moderately powerful computer be this thin?! One look at it and you just felt impressed at how far we've come. And the new pro is thinner! That's pretty amazing.

Then there are the other things. There's my counter argument. Felt weird saying nice things since I've trashed it so much ever since the keynote lol

 

[dumastudetto]

Except prices for the previous models did come down; they came down over the course of the last four years the 2012 MBP has been in production. The prices we see now for the 2016 MBP are comparable to what we saw for 2012 MBPs in 2012.

I still think the prices would have remained the same as the previous generation if they hadn't put the touchbar and touchid on them. The touchbar is basically a whole other computer on board with its own processor and display.

 

[jclardy]

People just have short attention spans. Looking back at reviews of past MacBook Pro releases (2008 unibody and 2012 Retina Display), commenters also criticized the computers for their high prices. The MBPs still sold great though, and had many happy users.

I think we're already seeing the same thing with the 2016 MBPs: a vocal minority complaining about the price, but many preorders that show consumers are excited for the redesign.

I don't recall 2008, but do remember 2012. That update dropped the DVD-drive, which I was happy for (mainly because of the weight/size reduction.) It also brought SSD's and retina displays, both major improvements...and both a major expense at the time. The price was justified by the technological advances.

It is now 2016 though, and this redesign gets rid of ports to reduce size (fine with me) but it adds...an oled display/touch ID sensor and a better display? The iPad Pro got TouchID and a DCI-P3 display for a $100 price increase (9.7" iPad Pro, but it also doubled base storage) Why is it $500 here? I am aware of moving from 128GB base to 256GB, but that is peanuts today.

My problem with it is this - Apple no longer makes a good laptop for college students. I bought into Apple in 2006 with the switch to intel, with a <$1k white plastic macbook. It was great, and I have stuck with them till now. Since then Apple has always had an "entry level" laptop available, until now. The "entry level" $1299 macbook is undersized, underpowered and overpriced for most college students. The new 13" MBP is a fine choice, other than its $1500 price tag. Apple is going to be losing a huge demographic this next year, one that has driven them to their current success with the mac line. They do sell the old models, but the 13" Air is ancient and overpriced for its specs. The 13" 2015 rMBP is probably the best option, but buying a "late model" computer new for the same price it was a year ago just feels wrong. But this is Apple, where selling a 3 year old Mac Pro with 3 year old specs at launch price is still acceptable.

 

[tubeexperience]

Still playing devils advocate. Don't kill me

You could argue that a Retina display is the way forward we would have gone anyway. Ssd was a big deal too, but still.

It doesn't matter who you are: when use try the new 2012 MacBook Pro Retina (compare to older MacBook Pro), you see this beautiful Retina Display and you also notice how much more responsive it is thanks to the solid state drive.

The touch bar looks gimmicky, but I said the same thing about other things too. I watched the keynote 2 more times as well as hands on videos of people actually using it and I gotta admit, it looks pretty sweet. It does make sense in a lot of ways to have these contextual menus and options right there above the keyboard. Even more than a touchscreen in some ways since your hands are still on the keyboard area. You could say it's just a natural extension of what we already do.

Then there's Touch ID which benefits us in multiple day to day ways. This is a feature we will ALL use every single time we open our computers. Not just for user switching and loggin in, but Apple Pay as well. This one feature is a biggie.

When using a computer (assuming it's not a Surface or something), you would be looking at the screen and wouldn't be looking down on where the Touch Bar anyway.

The problem with Touch Bar and Touch ID is that they are "that's nice" features, but that they are not "must have" features like a Retina Display and a solid state drive.

You could argue the speakers are incremental as well as the keyboard (which I'm not a fan of right now) but getting a "pro" laptop to be thinner than the MacBook Air isn't just incrementally thinner. It's a big engineering challenge and one you'll notice every time you use it. I remember seeing the MacBook Air for the first time in person and having my mind blown so hard my brains were scattered all over the Apple Store. Like how can a moderately powerful computer be this thin?! One look at it and you just felt impressed at how far we've come. And the new pro is thinner! That's pretty amazing.

Then there are the other things. There's my counter argument. Felt weird saying nice things since I've trashed it so much ever since the keynote lol

Well, a lot of the "upgrades" are free to Apple. For example, the processor and memory use less power so Apple can just use a smaller battery and hence make the chasse thinner.

SSDs got faster: again, incremental improvements.

 

[campyguy]

I've been reading some of the threads/posts about the significant price increases - IMHO there's one element of the business I've not seen addressed yet: world governments wanting significant back-dated tax payments, which also signals to me that a bunch of sweetheart deals may have ended. Those costs and potential future costs are likely, at least in-part, being passed on to the consumer.

On a related note, but a different product, I'm designing a product for retail sale and have priced the cost of production in the EU, Asia, and in the US - I'm not seeing a real cost break anywhere even though building in the US has always been my plan. Shipping costs have increased a bit despite the drop of costs for fuel - similar to costs for overnight shipping not going down despite a significant drop in costs for jet fuel. From my own recent cost breakdown I'm feeling that Apple's new price structure reflects that new cost of doing business...

Oh, and likely there's the Apple Campus tax? :evil grin:

I'm holding off on my purchase plans for new laptops for my small business and myself, planning on waiting for the newer processors. If Apple hadn't spent that money on a new campus, rather on a fab investment for Intel just for their own chips...

 

[shareef777]

I'm gonna play devil's advocate for the sake of discussion. And the fact that its halloween so i get to play something else

That was just for SSD and a better display

This time around you get:

• 4 USB C ports which will undoubtably be better
• Way better speakers
• A 2x larger trackpad
• Touchbar with touch id which will be a welcome change
• A better display (which you listed as one of the main things that justified the price hike last time around)
• Fastest SSD available
• Better battery life
• Probably other crap i cant think of

The funny thing is I was upset about the price (went with a maxed out 15", but only 1T instead of 2T option), until I realized it came out cheaper then my maxed out 2012. The argument will be made that the price increase is for the gimmicky TouchBar (I say that's yet to be determined). People made the same argument about the 2012 model and the value of the increased price for retina display. In 2012 we lost ethernet/firewire, and people persevered. We'll get there eventually with TB3/USBC as well.

 

[tubeexperience]

The funny thing is I was upset about the price (went with a maxed out 15", but only 1T instead of 2T option), until I realized it came out cheaper then my maxed out 2012. The argument will be made that the price increase is for the gimmicky TouchBar (I say that's yet to be determined). People made the same argument about the 2012 model and the value of the increased price for retina display. In 2012 we lost ethernet/firewire, and people persevered. We'll get there eventually with TB3/USBC as well.

It's hard to justify the price increase for the gimmick Touch Bar.

It isn't so hard to justify the price increase for the Retina display and the SSD.

_______________________________________________________________

Would I pay more for a Retina display and a solid state drive?

Of cause, I would.

Would I pay more for a Touch Bar?

Hell, no!

 

[shareef777]

It's hard to justify the price increase for the gimmick Touch Bar.

It isn't so hard to justify the price increase for the Retina display and the SSD.

_______________________________________________________________

Would I pay more for a Retina display and a solid state drive?

Of cause, I would.

Would I pay more for a Touch Bar?

Hell, no!

So you'd pay more for a better quality screen and a faster drive? Guess what, you got both of those in the latest MBP: NVMe PCIe drive and a P3 gamut display, in addition to the TouchBar. I mean come on, 3GBps+ on a consumer machine is insane.

 

[tubeexperience]

So you'd pay more for a better quality screen and a faster drive? Guess what, you got both of those in the latest MBP: NVMe PCIe drive and a P3 gamut display, in addition to the TouchBar. I mean come on, 3GBps+ on a consumer machine is insane.

As I previously said, technology get cheaper over time and a lot of these has to do with incremental improvements that comes with better technology.

For example, all of Samsung's new PCIe SSD uses NVMe instead of AHCI.

It shouldn't be surprising that all the PCIe SSDs in new MacBook Pro use NVMe.

_______________________________________________________________

It's the same reason that I shouldn't have to congratulate Apple for finally shipping the base iPhone with 32 GB storage considering how fast NAND prices are dropping.