MP 1,1-5,1 Looking to upgrade my Mac Pro one last time -- wanting to check I haven't missed anything

[LMR80]

Hi,

I have an originally 4.1 Mac Pro that I upgraded many years ago to a 5.1, and I also upgraded the CPU from the 4-core chip to the 6-core.
I was content on High Sierra for a long time, and then got a cheap metal GPU to go up to Mojave.

My main use for the system is music production, and I'd really like to upgrade to the latest version of Logic if I can. I hadn't really realized how behind I was so far as version, but now that Logic Pro 11 has been released and is only available on Ventura and up, I'm looking into upgrading again.

I've been doing some research and am making this post to check if I've missed anything. I know the most fundamental matter for using the Open Core Legacy Patcher is to upgrade the GPU again to an RX 580. I have heard it's better to go with a branded model and that the Sapphire versions are preferable. I have found a good deal on an 8gb Gigabyte variant, so presumably, this will work ok?

While the latest version of Logic runs on Ventura, apparently that OS is fraught with a lot of issues and Sonoma is a better bet, so I think I'll be going with that. That said, past Monterey is shakey many say, so I'm not confident that everything will work properly. I'm a little concerned I'll do the upgrade and experience a ton of glitching and applications not working. For some people Sequoia seems to work flawlessly and for others it's a mess.

I'm also struggling to understand the whole AVX/AVX2 thing. I read over Greg Gant's guide but didn't really get it, but from what I can tell, an increasing amount of Apple applications utilize it, and with these older Macs not supporting it at all it's the end of the road. Unsure whether I'll run into this with Logic, and if this is already a hurdle.

Is there anything I've missed here? I saw a post about ethernet not working with these upgrades but couldn't really get to the bottom of it (I don't use Wi-Fi). Others say there are also problems with Bluetooth and USB.

Many thanks!

 

[avro707]

What things are keeping you tied to the old machine?

Could you move to a M series machine just to get easier software and macOS support or are there particular cards you are using in your current machine?

What are the costs in time and risk for supporting the workarounds for non supported macOS configurations on the old machines?

 

[mattspace]

Is there anything I've missed here?

Is there anything about the cMP, a single processor variant especially, that is preferable to getting a secondhand mini - like a 2018 model new enough to run a current OS natively as a transition / process archive machine?

 

[mode11]

Is there anything I've missed here?

The M4 Mac mini. Stop wasting time with that old dinosaur. It's 16 years old; it's had a good run. Time to take it behind the woodshed.

If your time is worth anything, treat yourself to a newer Mac.

 

[Dayo]

Whether you SHOULD throw any cash at your cMP is a personal item and you may have considerations like older audio cards which I gather can be a pain with the new units. I for one decided I will not by a new Mac again back in 2013 when, being in the market for an upgrade to my MP31, Apple tried to insult my inteligence by presenting the Trashcan as a MacPro. Some might argue they are back at it with the current offering and were, in a different way, with the MP71.

Anyway, back on topic, you appear to have considered the main issues. The RX 580 is a solid choice as long as you steer away from some dodgy examples from the Chinese market. Only thing I will add to your considerations is that for a working unit, make your update in stages and each new version should be installed on a separate disk from your known good HiSierra disk.

You might want to first go to Mojave, migrate your HiSierra setup there and then physically REMOVE the HiSierra disk and stash somewhere. Reason is that booting into HiSierra can foul up some later versions of Mac OS. There are ways to avoid this but seems best to remove it if you can. Just remember to disconnect all the newer stuff if you need to use it. See https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/2415320

If you manage to get Mojave going and it can replace HiSierra, you can then try to install the newer stuff with less of thinking. Again though, I will suggest making a similar pit stop at Monterey before plunging ahead. Just a thought. You can dive right in if you want of course but I would take it bit by bit myself.

AVX2 is a hard road block as the CPU simply does not have this and more and more things require this. You can expect this to keep getting worse. Emulation has so far been elusive.

There is a related discussion on some Linux distros on whether to keep compiling to give broad support with a penalty on newer units as these will not work to full potential, or to flip the finger to the dinos with an aim of getting the most out of new kit by compiling with x86-64-v3 optimisation, which means use AVX instead of alternatives.

MP51 is x86-64-v2 btw and my venerable MP31 is x86-64-v1. MP71 is likely x86-64-v4 ... Not sure whether it has AVX-512 or not but I would expect that it does. No one is pushing for an AVX-512 baseline as yet though but Apple might. Who knows?

Anyway, while some Linux distros do care about the dinos and some even go as far as still offering PPC kernels, Apple is not known for holding the new back to benefit the old.

I expect that the next Mac OS kernel will not just optmise for x86-64-v3 (Apple doesn't use this terminiology but effectively follows it), but actually require that all software does the same if not already the case.

 

[avro707]

I was going to suggest an m4 pro Mini with 64GB RAM.

Just as long as any other devices you use are compatible. Maybe you need to use external enclosures for addon cards.

The classic Mac Pro had a long run but it’s time is coming to a close and trying to use workarounds to run Sonoma or newer on it doesn’t seem like something you want to do in production use.

I’ve seen talk of AVX2 emulation being added by clever third parties but that’s gone not much further as far as I know.

Folks with the 7,1 are also thinking of moving away, just fortunately while our GPUs and storage keep running we have a few years to go of OS support while we make our plans of what hardware to use next. Some folks I know of have already gone to PC workstations, others are waiting and will see what comes along.

 

[ChrisA]

Any M-series computer will run circles around your old Mac Pro. Replace the MP with a used M2 Mini for a few hundred bucks. Just make sure you have enough RAM in the new Mini for all the tracks you like to use.

seriously, there is no point is continuing to use an old Intel Mac Pro unless you have some very special use case.

The above applies double if you are a Logic user. Logic has been re-written to run best on the M-series computers.

 

[Dayo]

MP71 is likely x86-64-v4 ... Not sure whether it has AVX-512 or not. AVX-512 baseline?

Note to self for bookmarking

iMacPro1,1...
Intel Xeon W-2100/W-2200 (Skylake-SP)
AVX-512 Support: YES
AVX-512 Subsets: AVX-512F, AVX-512CD, AVX-512BW, AVX-512DQ, AVX-512VL

MacPro7,1...
Intel Xeon W-3200 (Cascade Lake-W)
AVX-512 Support: Yes
AVX-512 Subsets: As per Skylake-SP as well as AVX-512VNNI, AVX-512VBMI

All Other Intel Macs...
CPU: Max is Comet Lake (2020 iMac)
AVX-512 Support: No
AVX-512 Subsets: N/A
AVX-512 seems limted to Desktop "Pro" units

First Intel Macs to get AVX2...
Mid 2014 MBP (Haswell CPU)
Late 2014 iMac (Haswell CPU)
Late 2014 Mac Mini (Haswell CPU)

Haswell CPU (with AVX2) released 2013
Not used by Late 2013 Trashcan (Ivy Bridge - Dropped at Monterey - No AVX2).
All supported Mac OS as at 2025 are at least x86-64-v3 (Haswell or newer)

 

[LMR80]

Thank you all so much, I think at the end of the day, you’ve made it clear it’s best to start looking at a Mac mini. A few different models have been tossed around, so what should I be looking for specifically for logic?

 

[avro707]

I would get the top spec you can afford because you can't upgrade it later, something like this:

AUD$3,399.00:

• Apple M4 Pro chip with 14‑core CPU, 20‑core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine
• 64GB unified memory
• 1TB SSD storage
• Gigabit Ethernet
• Three Thunderbolt 5 ports, HDMI port, two USB-C ports, headphone jack

You can add cheaper external storage instead of paying exorbitant Apple tax for inbuilt 8TB SSD.

 

[avro707]

One thing to note about the M4 Pro Mac Mini - if you are running demanding tasks on it, the machine sounds like a jet engine powered up for takeoff.

I have one I’m testing (12/16 core combination with 24gb ram and 512gb ssd) and I wondered what the loud noise was. It was the Mac mini.

So if you need a very silent machine, that might not be it.