That's right kiddies... you know that when BMW decide to fit a semi-auto to an M3, that it can only mean one thing... the manual is dead! 
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M3 to get DSG-style manual gearbox
- Thread starter iGav
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Why should it mean that? A semi-auto makes sense in a cruiser like an M3. It's meant to be a car that can drive quickly with little fuss or difficulty.
BMW introduced a couple of cars recently as semi-autos, but released a manual version when they realised that there are loads of people who still want that.
BMW introduced a couple of cars recently as semi-autos, but released a manual version when they realised that there are loads of people who still want that.
I don't get manual cars. I'm sure it's the geek equivalent of programming in assembly language, but if we moved on to something more refined yet maintained a high level of control for the driver, surely we could still get the same feel from driving.
Um.....anyway, my lazy North American ass will stick to automatic, thank you.
Um.....anyway, my lazy North American ass will stick to automatic, thank you.
Because the M3 has long been considered one of the defining vanguards of the traditional drivers car, that BMW have now seen fit to install it with a semi-automatic (really a bit of misnomer, maybe semi-manual would be a better description) certainly suggests if not implies a wind of change if not quite the force majeure that was originally envisaged with the launch of the M5.
I don't get manual cars. I'm sure it's the geek equivalent of programming in assembly language, but if we moved on to something more refined yet maintained a high level of control for the driver, surely we could still get the same feel from driving.
Um.....anyway, my lazy North American ass will stick to automatic, thank you.
Don't they consume less fuel?
Manuals are sooo stupid. Such a wate of time and effort. I despise them, M3 is going to be awesome. Possibly one of the best looking bmw's ever, it looks awesome in white. BMW are definatly the best car company in the world. 5 series, M5, 335i, 535d, z4m coupe.... Brilliant,
Manuals are better because
a) Down-shifting is better for fast driving than brakes
b) If you are being conservative, they get better mileage
3) They are cheaper to fix
And it prevents most of your stupid American friends from driving your new car
a) Down-shifting is better for fast driving than brakes
b) If you are being conservative, they get better mileage
3) They are cheaper to fix
And it prevents most of your stupid American friends from driving your new car
The M5 and M6 were (iirc) originally only available with semi-auto, yet after the backlash they released a manual. And the M3 hasn't been a pure driver's car for years, too much bloat.
Manual gearboxes aren't just about speed, it's about having fun. It makes it feel faster to some people. Ever driven an old Mini? It's a similar sort of feeling.
The only backlash was in America where they're only slightly late to the manual shifting party.
Fortunately for the most part, Europeans are much more willing to embrace advances in technology and the resultant changes in driving techniques that it offers.
I'm sure we've been here before.
You could just get an Audi RS4 with a six speed...problem solved. And you get two more doors and AWD.
Well, I don't know about that American comment, but they are also lighter.
Manuals are better because
a) Down-shifting is better for fast driving than brakes
b) If you are being conservative, they get better mileage
3) They are cheaper to fix
And it prevents most of your stupid American friends from driving your new car
Well, I don't know about that American comment, but they are also lighter.
I see this more as the fall of a icon than anything positive. I've owned 2 M3's and there is no way i would ever buy one without a Manual gearbox. It's a sports car, in my opinion its like buying a 911 turbo with paddles, waste of money and really nice automotive technology.
Ed
Ed
Exactly.
The DSG style gearbox doesnt replace the 6 speed manual option. It will replace the SMG transmission option. BMW wont discontinue the manual transmissions.
Before kiddos started poppin out the wife, I had a 2002 M3, and BMW's offer multiple transmission choices (pure manual 6speed or 7speed, or a sportronic SMG or DSG)
Many BMW drivers, myself included, enjoy using the standard transmission. I feel more connected to the car and enjoy the feeling of moving up thru the gears and anticipating the shift with the rpm's.
If I was driving a 200" long minivan or suburban I would look for a nice smooth easy ride. BUT with a sportscar I look for the feeling of connection to the car. One foot on the clutch, another on the gas, one hand on the wheel, and another on the gearbox - thats how I love to drive - and although I know that some drivers dont appreciate or desire that - thats cool, but there is definitely a target market for BMW and thats what they are aiming at with the standard transmissions.
I'm sorry but the M3 hasn't been the vangaurd of anything since the 90s. The last decade of M3s have steadily become less sport car and more bloated, useless-feature-packed pointless car. DSG is just another example of that.
Chrismcfall said:
Should be quicker. Significantly so over a full bore 0-100 run.
These type of gearboxes (DCT, DSG's etc) aren't like power sapping conventional automatics that employ torque converters. These actually use clutches like a normal manual gearbox, but the operation of these clutches are controlled automatically, whilst the driver decides and manually selects the appropriate gear.
Round a track... it'll be even quicker still, aided by the quicker downshifts and because the upshifts are near seamless, you can change whilst cornering without upsetting the balance of the car for example.
They did with the M5 in Europe.
I think the only reason the new M3 is even being considered with a manual gearbox is because of the U.S. market.
Which is how you do it with the DCT. The only thing you're not doing is pressing a clutch pedal.
I suspect this will be the last generation of M cars that employ a manual gearbox as the technology improves to allow true seamless shifting from a semi-manual gearbox.
adroit said:
It's funny you should say that, when the E36 got critically panned for being excessively bloated and diluted from its previous incarnation.
adroit said:
I'm not sure how you can say that, when both the pinnacles of motorsport (F1 and WRC) both employ variations on the theme.
It's funny you should say that, when the E36 got critically panned for being excessively bloated and diluted from its previous incarnation.
Exactly, the E30 was the last true M3. BMW seems more than happy to through that M badge on just about anything these days.
Wow driving a M3 without a manual transmission? We call people who drive these cars MILFs.
Seriously, I would never consider buying a car without a manual transmission. Way more fun to drive, and proves you can actually drive a car.
I have yet to hear an advantage of an automatic transmission other than it is more convenient (aka lazy).
Seriously, I would never consider buying a car without a manual transmission. Way more fun to drive, and proves you can actually drive a car.
I have yet to hear an advantage of an automatic transmission other than it is more convenient (aka lazy).
Nah, the E36 was just the worst.
The last true M3 was the E46 M3 CSL just so long you didn't tick the option boxes.
That's almost always been the case though (M635CSI , M535i for example)the M is nothing other than a signifier that the car is motorsport derived at some level nothing else, and don't forget there is a distinction between the 'M' badged model, and an 'M' car.
cycocelica said:
This new gearbox is considered a manual though. As is the Audi's DSG (S-Tronic), and BMW's previous SMG unit.
cycocelica said:
A conventional manual gearbox is no more purist.
too bad you can't actually buy any BMW 3 unless you want to improve yourself after owning a Golf GTI