M4 MacBook Air Display Flicker

[AshX]

Hi guys,

I just received my new 13-inch M4 MacBook Air in Sky Blue with the 16 GB RAM/512 SSD configuration. To cut to the chase, I purchased this to replace my 2019 iMac 21.5-inch 4K that had developed what appeared to be a backlight flicker after a move. Well, it seems that this MacBook Air has the same problem. Here’s a video of it recorded in 240 fps: https://streamable.com/uwqq3y

I was actually able to get rid of the flicker by turning off “Dim Display when on Battery Power” but when I changed the brightness, it returned.

I know others have had this issue going back to the M2 MBA’s. Does anyone know if this is the backlight? A energy saving PWM? I have turned off dithering with Stillcolor, so I don’t believe it is dithering. I can use my iPhone 13 no problem but have had trouble tolerating any of the Apple notebooks since the M-series chips were released. Just trying to get to the bottom of this as I’m a music producer and use these computers for work. Not sure if I should exchange this or if this is just how these machines are built these days.

Thanks!

 

[Technerd108]

Hi guys,

I just received my new 13-inch M4 MacBook Air in Sky Blue with the 16 GB RAM/512 SSD configuration. To cut to the chase, I purchased this to replace my 2019 iMac 21.5-inch 4K that had developed what appeared to be a backlight flicker after a move. Well, it seems that this MacBook Air has the same problem. Here’s a video of it recorded in 240 fps: https://streamable.com/uwqq3y

I was actually able to get rid of the flicker by turning off “Dim Display when on Battery Power” but when I changed the brightness, it returned.

I know others have had this issue going back to the M2 MBA’s. Does anyone know if this is the backlight? A energy saving PWM? I have turned off dithering with Stillcolor, so I don’t believe it is dithering. I can use my iPhone 13 no problem but have had trouble tolerating any of the Apple notebooks since the M-series chips were released. Just trying to get to the bottom of this as I’m a music producer and use these computers for work. Not sure if I should exchange this or if this is just how these machines are built these days.

Thanks!

I have an M2 MBA and I don't notice any flicker. However, some people have complained about migraines and other issues related to all Mac screens since switching to m series chips from Intel. Tons of threads on these forums.

I have also noticed that quality control at Apple is a bit hit and miss these days. I would return and replace up to 3 units and see what happens.

You may have just gotten a slightly defective screen? You could also be one of the people who are sensitive to PWM or whatever the issue is people are seeing with these screens. Happens on Mini LED and LCD.

I hope you enjoy your sky blue M4 MBA, I am jealous. Lol

 

[AshX]

I have an M2 MBA and I don't notice any flicker. However, some people have complained about migraines and other issues related to all Mac screens since switching to m series chips from Intel. Tons of threads on these forums.

I have also noticed that quality control at Apple is a bit hit and miss these days. I would return and replace up to 3 units and see what happens.

You may have just gotten a slightly defective screen? You could also be one of the people who are sensitive to PWM or whatever the issue is people are seeing with these screens. Happens on Mini LED and LCD.

I hope you enjoy your sky blue M4 MBA, I am jealous. Lol

Thanks for the advice! I went to a ton of stores trying out different Sky Blue 13” MBA’s and there definitely was a difference. One in particular I could look at comfortably. This one, the text looks blurry especially on bold text, and compared to my iPhone. I tried the disable font smoothing command but I don’t think it did anything…

The Apple Store is aware of my issues so I think they’ll be okay with me exchanging. I know my iPhone 13 has PWM and I’m completely fine with it…so there seems to be a “screen lottery” component for sure. I got COVID in 2022 and started having issues with light, so I think prior to that I could put up with stuff like this but now…not so much. Worse case I suppose I’ll go with a Mac Mini and try to pair a monitor with it. The MacBook Pros made me dizzy immediately.

 

[Technerd108]

Thanks for the advice! I went to a ton of stores trying out different Sky Blue 13” MBA’s and there definitely was a difference. One in particular I could look at comfortably. This one, the text looks blurry especially on bold text, and compared to my iPhone. I tried the disable font smoothing command but I don’t think it did anything…

The Apple Store is aware of my issues so I think they’ll be okay with me exchanging. I know my iPhone 13 has PWM and I’m completely fine with it…so there seems to be a “screen lottery” component for sure. I got COVID in 2022 and started having issues with light, so I think prior to that I could put up with stuff like this but now…not so much. Worse case I suppose I’ll go with a Mac Mini and try to pair a monitor with it. The MacBook Pros made me dizzy immediately.

It sucks to have exchange anything. However, If you keep your laptop a while then you are going to live with whatever you end up with for as long as you keep it.

Might as well enjoy that time as much as possible since you are paying of it. If Apple doesn't care to pay for proper QC or it cheaper just to build more units per hour and deal with returns then that is not our fault. Actually that business model is a hassle to us.

So I say you don't rest until you find a unit that works for you. There is a chance that the screens used on the MBA will not be usable to you. I have read countless posts about this issue and it is real for a lot of people. Some people say the MBP Mini Led screen is better and some say it is worse because it uses PWM while technically the MBA doesn't use PWM or dithering. There is something in the display driver in m series chips on a Mac that is very different and for a subset of people seems to trigger light sensitivities and various biological responses.

So if it affects you I am not sure even a different monitor will work since it is the display driver for m series that seems to have changed within the OS. So it is possible any monitor used would still have the issue for people since even if a monitor uses PWM or not or Dithering or not it may or may not be related to any of these things from all I have read.

My best advice for now is to try a few different models of the same that you want to buy until you find one that doesn't bother you. You might not find something that is 100% perfect but you might find 95%?

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

Just to be clear there is no PWM on the MBA models.

 

[AshX]

It sucks to have exchange anything. However, If you keep your laptop a while then you are going to live with whatever you end up with for as long as you keep it.

Might as well enjoy that time as much as possible since you are paying of it. If Apple doesn't care to pay for proper QC or it cheaper just to build more units per hour and deal with returns then that is not our fault. Actually that business model is a hassle to us.

So I say you don't rest until you find a unit that works for you. There is a chance that the screens used on the MBA will not be usable to you. I have read countless posts about this issue and it is real for a lot of people. Some people say the MBP Mini Led screen is better and some say it is worse because it uses PWM while technically the MBA doesn't use PWM or dithering. There is something in the display driver in m series chips on a Mac that is very different and for a subset of people seems to trigger light sensitivities and various biological responses.

So if it affects you I am not sure even a different monitor will work since it is the display driver for m series that seems to have changed within the OS. So it is possible any monitor used would still have the issue for people since even if a monitor uses PWM or not or Dithering or not it may or may not be related to any of these things from all I have read.

My best advice for now is to try a few different models of the same that you want to buy until you find one that doesn't bother you. You might not find something that is 100% perfect but you might find 95%?

You’re 100% right. I appreciate this because I know some folks on here don’t believe this is an issue. I have 20/20 vision and while I know I probably have underlying health issues contributing to this sensitivity, the fact that I can look at an iPhone 13 and a Windows work laptop of my mom’s means that I can look at screens, so there has to be a solution.

It’s unfortunate because it’s not as if I can test drive or even check the laptops in-store to see if they have these issues. The LED and fluorescent lighting in Apple Stores and other places like Best Buy make it impossible to actually test if this flickering is present because the camera will pick up the store’s fluorescent lights. So I have no choice but to buy computers and then test them. I spent over a month researching and going to stores and the inconsistency of these screens was apparent, making it even harder since I can’t buy the display model that I found most comfortable.

I rented a 14” MBP M1 Pro in 2022 and it was one of the most comfortable screens I ever used. Yet the new Pros I look at in-store are brutal. Is this because of the overhead lighting or the same manufacturing inconsistencies? I don’t know.

Just to be clear there is no PWM on the MBA models.

That’s what Notebookcheck and RTINGs have posted. My question then is what is this flickering? And I know it’s not necessary because other users online have posted other laptops that don’t flicker like this - including the 13” MBP M2 touchbar. Dithering shouldn’t be visible on camera like this so the only thing I can think of is it’s a backlight flicker tied to the refresh rate.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

You’re 100% right. I appreciate this because I know some folks on here don’t believe this is an issue. I have 20/20 vision and while I know I probably have underlying health issues contributing to this sensitivity, the fact that I can look at an iPhone 13 and a Windows work laptop of my mom’s means that I can look at screens, so there has to be a solution.

It’s unfortunate because it’s not as if I can test drive or even check the laptops in-store to see if they have these issues. The LED and fluorescent lighting in Apple Stores and other places like Best Buy make it impossible to actually test if this flickering is present because the camera will pick up the store’s fluorescent lights. So I have no choice but to buy computers and then test them. I spent over a month researching and going to stores and the inconsistency of these screens was apparent, making it even harder since I can’t buy the display model that I found most comfortable.

I rented a 14” MBP M1 Pro in 2022 and it was one of the most comfortable screens I ever used. Yet the new Pros I look at in-store are brutal. Is this because of the overhead lighting or the same manufacturing inconsistencies? I don’t know.



That’s what Notebookcheck and RTINGs have posted. My question then is what is this flickering? And I know it’s not necessary because other users online have posted other laptops that don’t flicker like this - including the 13” MBP M2 touchbar. Dithering shouldn’t be visible on camera like this so the only thing I can think of is it’s a backlight flicker tied to the refresh rate.

All screens have some amount of flickering but PWM is a specific way to control brightness that causes a different type. Recording at 240fps wouldn’t show PWM typically, you would need to have a camera with high exposure (e.g. 4000-8000) to see PWM. This can be done by downloading Final Cut Camera app on your iPhone or some Androids already have it built into their app.

I think it’s important to understand a little bit about how LCD tech works so here’s a link on why old CRT’ and LCD’s can flicker.

LCD screens don't flicker - or do they? - EE Times

Contrary to popular belief, LCD panels do exhibit flicker, write Intersil's applications engineers. Simple potentiometer adjustments can be made to minimize the effect since LCD flicker arises from an offset of the common voltage, not a refresh signal. As LCDs grow in popularity and in size...

www.eetimes.com

 

[AshX]

All screens have some amount of flickering but PWM is a specific way to control brightness that causes a different type. Recording at 240fps wouldn’t show PWM typically, you would need to have a camera with high exposure (e.g. 4000-8000) to see PWM. This can be done by downloading Final Cut Camera app on your iPhone or some Androids already have it built into their app.

I think it’s important to understand a little bit about how LCD tech works so here’s a link on why old CRT’ and LCD’s can flicker.

LCD screens don't flicker - or do they? - EE Times

Contrary to popular belief, LCD panels do exhibit flicker, write Intersil's applications engineers. Simple potentiometer adjustments can be made to minimize the effect since LCD flicker arises from an offset of the common voltage, not a refresh signal. As LCDs grow in popularity and in size...

www.eetimes.com

Thanks for linking that article - very informative.

I set my Fujifilm XT30 to 1/4000 shutter speed (its max) and was able to reveal PWM on my iPhone 13 (which doesn’t bother me) and flickering my on my GE lightbulb and the MBA.

This is a video at max brightness of me recording my XT30: https://streamable.com/2o4x7d