M4 Mini configuration advice.

[maflynn]

I'm looking for advice a new M4 Mac Mini (btw, I'm using education store pricing)

Stock configurations:
M4 Pro 12 CPU/16 GPU 24GB 512GB - 1,300
M4 10 CPU/10 GPU 24GB 512GB - 900
M4 10 CPU/10 GPU 16GB 512GB - 700
M4 10 CPU/10 GPU 16GB 256GB - 500

BTO
M4 10 CPU/10 GPU 24GB 256GB - 700

The price delta to move up to the M4 Pro (and everything else the same) is 400 dollars. How impactful is the extra CPU cores and for me, how impactful are the GPU cores - one of my intended uses is playing games. I'm worried as more games come available and push the envelope that I might paint myself into a corner with the M4.

I was thinking of going with the base model, upgrading the ram, and using external storage., that's nearly 1/2 the price of the M4 Pro model

Some of the wish list usages are: learning Fusion 360, games as I mentioned, generic internet, office apps, possibly some virtualization, and toying with photoshop. I'm looking to get more into AI and learning about that, so that may be justification for the M4 Pro, not sure.

 

[dmccloud]

AI: the more RAM you have on the system, the larger the models that can be run on the machine. One thing to note is that larger models actually run slower overall in terms of tokens per second due to how large the datasets are.

Photoshop/Fusion: 16GB would likely be enough RAM unless you started to get into heavy usage of either app. 24GB might make more sense from a longevity perspective.

Storage: Fast external SSDs are fast enough and cheap enough to use instead of expanding the internal storage. I use a 4TB Crucial X10 Pro to store games, which can read/write at speeds up to 2100 MBps. The drive can be found for between $230-$250 after discounts/sales.

GPU: this one is harder to evaluate because there are so many unknowns in terms of what games would you be playing now, what games you are interested in playing in the future, and even what display you would be using with the Mini.

 

[maflynn]

Thanks for the response, I feel like my thought processes are similar to what you're recommending. More ram, and use external storage

GPU: this one is harder to evaluate because there are so many unknowns in terms of what games would you be playing now, what games you are interested in playing in the future, and even what display you would be using with the Mini.

I've been googling this, trying to see what the stock M4 Mac Mini's GPU is similar too for the PC. One reddit thread seems to out the base M4's GPU performance at the GTX 1650 range where as the M4 Pro is akin to RTX 3060/3070
76
I'm not sure how accurate that is, but its a start of what I'm looking into

As for games I like to play, on the PC side, mostly Bethesda titles, like Starfield, Fallout 76, there's also Cities:Skylines II, I'm also looking to get Civ 7 at some point

I'm not giving up on my PC, so that will be available, but my thinking is the Mini will be my daily driver.

My monitor is an ultra wide 1440p monitor

 

[iAssimilated]

Just be aware, the M4 mini does not allow for RAM upgrades, so purchase what you need when ordering. That said, people have been successful in upgrading the storage: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ni-ssd-pre-soldered-2tb-chip-options.2446405/

 

[sublunar]

Thanks for the response, I feel like my thought processes are similar to what you're recommending. More ram, and use external storage


I've been googling this, trying to see what the stock M4 Mac Mini's GPU is similar too for the PC. One reddit thread seems to out the base M4's GPU performance at the GTX 1650 range where as the M4 Pro is akin to RTX 3060/3070
76
I'm not sure how accurate that is, but its a start of what I'm looking into

As for games I like to play, on the PC side, mostly Bethesda titles, like Starfield, Fallout 76, there's also Cities:Skylines II, I'm also looking to get Civ 7 at some point

I'm not giving up on my PC, so that will be available, but my thinking is the Mini will be my daily driver.

My monitor is an ultra wide 1440p monitor

I’m not sure I’d attach much importance on gaming with the m4 if you have a PC. Windows, DirectX, and Nvidia cards are the primary target for games coders and I’m sure there will be people around who will be able to explain how polygons are drawn on these architectures vs the tile based rendering that the M series macs major on (TBDR).

It brings me back to the planar vs bitmap graphics rendering wars that did for the Amiga as the Windows machines eventually brute forced their way into dominance whereas Amigas had to do things 8 times over to draw a frame due to the way graphics were handled which was great for side scrolling 2d games but not so good for the kind of 3d games that are now prevalent.

Anyway, that’s for another thread. One where we discuss Apple investing in making it worthwhile for Apple coders to make games for A or M series platforms.

For me, the value in a Mac is in how little you can add to base skus and get away with what you need to do. Every BTO addition you do has diminishing returns due to the the cost of the upgrades.

And yes, external storage is a way round it but I don’t think an M4 Pro is potentially worth it in the new smaller case due to heat and noise output when pushed up against a Mac Studio for high performance stuff including games. There’s just no way a windows port will be that efficient. I’d rate extra RAM over improving the CPU in this case.

If the Ram I concluded I needed was the same as a base model Mac Studio I’d be looking at that. If I were buying an M4 mini now I’d be asking myself if I can get away with the astoundingly good value 16/256 spec. I’m not comfortable with less than 1tb native storage these days though. 😀

 

[dmccloud]

Thanks for the response, I feel like my thought processes are similar to what you're recommending. More ram, and use external storage


I've been googling this, trying to see what the stock M4 Mac Mini's GPU is similar too for the PC. One reddit thread seems to out the base M4's GPU performance at the GTX 1650 range where as the M4 Pro is akin to RTX 3060/3070
76
I'm not sure how accurate that is, but its a start of what I'm looking into

As for games I like to play, on the PC side, mostly Bethesda titles, like Starfield, Fallout 76, there's also Cities:Skylines II, I'm also looking to get Civ 7 at some point

I'm not giving up on my PC, so that will be available, but my thinking is the Mini will be my daily driver.

My monitor is an ultra wide 1440p monitor

I have run Civ 7 on the base M4 Mini and a 4K display without any issues, so 1440p shouldn't be an issue with any
M4 Mini.

 

[maflynn]

I’m not sure I’d attach much importance on gaming with the m4 if you have a PC

Thanks, I guess I started getting into FOMO, in the sense of I better over-buy just in case I'd miss out on stuff.

I’d be looking at that. If I were buying an M4 mini now I’d be asking myself if I can get away with the astoundingly good value 16/256 spec

I think overall the 256GB storage isn't the issue, more so the ram, I do feel I'd want 24GB and for 200 more, its not a horrible deal

I have run Civ 7 on the base M4 Mini and a 4K display without any issues, so 1440p shouldn't be an issue with any
M4 Mini.

That's good to know, thanks.

 

[maflynn]

In my attempt to get my brain wrapped around what's important to me, here's what Cinebench 2024 looks like for my PC and M1 Pro MBP.

The CPU multi/single are faster then my PC (AMD Ryzen 7 3700X) I'm not surprised for a number of reasons including that I have the PC down-clocked a bit to keep the fans from spinning up needlessly.

As for GPU performance, I'm rocking a AMD RX 7800 XT which puts it in the area of a RTX 4070 - at least for rasterization. That's a bit more telling in that MBP's GPU performance is about 76% slower then RX 7800 XT.

Doing a bit of googling and search here, the M4 base score is around 4500 whilst the M4 Pro Mac Mini has Cinebench GPU score 7500 and up (saw one in the 9k range - not sure if that's an outlier.)

 

[drrich2]

The price delta to move up to the M4 Pro (and everything else the same) is 400 dollars. How impactful is the extra CPU cores and for me, how impactful are the GPU cores - one of my intended uses is playing games. I'm worried as more games come available and push the envelope that I might paint myself into a corner with the M4.

I was thinking of going with the base model, upgrading the ram, and using external storage., that's nearly 1/2 the price of the M4 Pro model

The M4Pro gives you Thunderbolt 5 instead of 4. This matters for a couple of reasons.

1.) If you use an external SSD as your start up disc for example, you get faster transfer speeds. But be warned...how much you can subjectively tell vs. TB 4 SSDs is more the issue than Black Magic speed tests, and the cache of the SSD matters because if you move really larger files that saturate it, transfer speeds on at least 1 TB 5 external SSD I read about dropped way down.

2.) That extra bandwidth might be nice if at some point down the road you buy an external TB5 dock; right now the CalDigit TS5 and TS5+ are quite expensive.

A big question in all this is what kind of Mac owner are you? Someone who sells his old Mac and upgrades to a new one every 4 years can probably ignore these concerns. Someone who keeps their Mac 7-10 years, allowing software bloat to cut performance and external SSD and dock prices to drop (e.g.: some months back I picked up a used CalDigit TS3+ for $90 via FaceBook Market Place), on the other hand may benefit over time from some future proofing.

 

[JSRinUK]

I'm looking to get more into AI and learning about that, so that may be justification for the M4 Pro, not sure.

What kind of AI are you interested in? RAM is the biggie here.

My first Mac was the M4Pro MBP with 24GB. I knew nothing about local LLMs when I bought it. When I started learning about it, I’m glad I had 24GB. Anything less will severely limit you to the models you can run.

Once I got really interested in local LLMs, I knew I wanted to run larger models, and I set my sights on 128GB (I waited for the Studio for that). With the local LLMs I run now, I’m so glad I have 128GB - not just for larger local LLMs, but also because I can run good size LLMs alongside AI image generation and other apps.

So my advice if you’re interested in learning about local LLMs / AI - get as much RAM as you can. I would definitely not go less than 24GB.

LLM models can be quite big, but I load up most of mine from an external 2GB SSD, so local disk space isn’t necessarily a big hurdle. RAM is key.

 

[ScanPro]

Hey there, I have the M4 Pro, base config 24 Gb ram 512 Gb., with 2 4 TB 990 external SSD's. The family movies and music is on one of them, the other one is for all the non-Apple apps and my working library for photos and videos. The Time machine is on an external dual SSD. I use the apple apps, iMovie and Garage band. The little silver box is a beast. I have not noticed any heat issues at any time. Now I completely agree with the other responders in regards the the RAM, I don't have need for deep AI work but I can understand the need for the extra memory. I have a Benq Mobiuz 38 inch. the Mini runs it just fine at 4K 120hz. All of this may not mean much, but just my own experiences. I am sure what ever you decide you will be happy

 

[Acronyc]

I have the base M4 Pro config, the first one you mention (12 CPU/16 GPU/24GB RAM/512GB SSD). I have a 4TB external SSD for extra storage.

I got this to replace my M1 Max MBP with the 24 core GPU and the mini CPU outperforms my (now sold) M1 Max in everything, and the GPU in the mini is on par with the M1 Max.

I debated getting a CTO with 48GB of RAM and the upgraded GPU and CPU, but I'm glad I didn't since after having it for 7 months, I haven't had the need for those upgrades. But, I definitely need the 24GB and M4 Pro CPU and for me it was worth the extra money going from the regular M4.

Either way, though, the mini is awesome. I personally wouldn't get less than 24GB of RAM, and if you go that route on the regular M4, jump to the M4 Pro is worth it in my opinion.

 

[MrWillie]

If you "feel" that you need the Pro mini, spend a few extra and buy a Studio.

My advices to get the base model mini and a Playstation or Xbox.

Another choice is to get the base model mini and find a more productive activity than gaming.

 

[MacCheetah3]

Doing a bit of googling and search here, the M4 base score is around 4500 whilst the M4 Pro Mac Mini has Cinebench GPU score 7500 and up (saw one in the 9k range - not sure if that's an outlier.)

Mine, a 20-core GPU variant, reaches into the 9000 GPU scores.

As for GPU performance, I'm rocking a AMD RX 7800 XT which puts it in the area of a RTX 4070 - at least for rasterization. That's a bit more telling in that MBP's GPU performance is about 76% slower then RX 7800 XT.

I've been googling this, trying to see what the stock M4 Mac Mini's GPU is similar too for the PC. One reddit thread seems to out the base M4's GPU performance at the GTX 1650 range where as the M4 Pro is akin to RTX 3060/3070
76
I'm not sure how accurate that is, but its a start of what I'm looking into

Considering 3DMark scores:
• M4 (base) is a little better than a GTX 1650 — although, it would be an RTX 1650
• M4 Pro (16-core) is a little better than an RTX 3050 or a little less than an RX 6600

 

[maflynn]

M4 Pro (16-core) is a little better than an RTX 3050 or a little less than an RX 6600

That's interesting Notebook check Puts the 16 core GPU in the RTX 4050 range in synthetic benchmarks and the RTX 4060 in real world usages

Its gaming performance is highly dependent on the game and if it is using emulation or if it is optimized for Apple silicon. In Baldur's Gate 3, for example, the iGPU is similar to a GeForce RTX 4050 in Windows 11. In synthetic benchmarks, the performance looks much better and can compete with an RTX 4060. The old M3 Pro 18-core GPU can easily be beaten despite the higher core count.

 

[dmccloud]

In my attempt to get my brain wrapped around what's important to me, here's what Cinebench 2024 looks like for my PC and M1 Pro MBP.

The CPU multi/single are faster then my PC (AMD Ryzen 7 3700X) I'm not surprised for a number of reasons including that I have the PC down-clocked a bit to keep the fans from spinning up needlessly.

As for GPU performance, I'm rocking a AMD RX 7800 XT which puts it in the area of a RTX 4070 - at least for rasterization. That's a bit more telling in that MBP's GPU performance is about 76% slower then RX 7800 XT.

Doing a bit of googling and search here, the M4 base score is around 4500 whilst the M4 Pro Mac Mini has Cinebench GPU score 7500 and up (saw one in the 9k range - not sure if that's an outlier.)

View attachment 2519299

Regarding down-clocking your PC - I have found that leaving stock clocks at their defaults and setting power management to top out at 99% max power actually makes a bigger difference in both CPU temperatures and fan speeds without sacrificing performance to the degree that down-clocking can. My CPU (Ryzen 9 5900X) idles between 31-35C and only reaches 65C or so when gaming.