M4 Pro Unbinned is good, but I'm keeping my M1 Max MBP

[RumorConsumer]

16" M4 Pro 14c is a beast make no mistake. I got the M4 Pro 14c with 48gb RAM and 2TB SSD. I used it for about 5 days. It's a great machine. And it is not appreciably better than this M1 Max 16" MacBook Pro at anything I do. I have about 25gb of RAM used at any given time. Thats about 20 apps of various kinds open. Lots of communications apps, Remote Desktop, Zoom, etc. Not LLM, not a lot of video encoding (though sometimes). And I am sitting there thinking to myself "You know, I really don't feel THAT much of a difference. For the several grand this thing cost I just can't justify. Especially when I'd need to sell this M1 Max for like $1800 which is just peanuts compared to how much value it feels like is left in the machine. At this point, I am gonna stick around for the redesign.

The bottom line: Apple Silicon changed everything. I could not wait to give up my 16" Intel i9 MBP from 2019 when this M1 Max came. But we are in a different era and I could not be happier with Apple right now and the way things are looking.

PS. This is coming from a former Apple employee of 6 years who has probably had about 30 high powered Macs.

 

[redheeler]

I could not wait to give up my 16" Intel i9 MBP from 2019 when this M1 Max came.

Still using mine. The M4 Mac mini is obviously faster as it's 5 years newer. But the 2019 Intel is still okay for a lot of tasks.

 

[RumorConsumer]

Still using mine. The M4 Mac mini is obviously faster as it's 5 years newer. But the 2019 Intel is still okay for a lot of tasks.

I actually believe that! I couldn't take it anymore.

 

[FreakinEurekan]

M1 Max 32/1TB is working fine for me, not lagging in the least and plenty of space left so I'm not even LOOKING at the M4 MBP's.

I did replace my M1 mini with a M4 Pro mini though... not that the M1 was "Lagging" or anything, but I had another use for it and just.... wanted a M4 Pro Sometimes that's all the motivation you need.

 

[UnifiedMelody]

I actually believe that! I couldn't take it anymore.

apple marketing very good lol. i mean im moving from a sh**ty pc with 3900x/64GB ram/1080Ti to M4 Max MBP 16" at 64GB/2TB lol waiting delivery now... taking a bit long because i opted nanotexture option

in those cases these 'new' laptops are meant to capture that kind of people... unless the M1 Max is bottlenecking [which i doubt].

from my understanding [base] chips or even 2-3 gen behind Pro chips are more likely to go up too but not max.'s

keeping in mind reviews do show Max M4 ramps up fan much more but I doubt i'll even get close to what they're doing 5% of the time

 

[Analog Kid]

Pedantry exception: there isn't an unbinned part. Binning is the process of separating a production run of parts meant to be the same into groups based on their post production results. Either all parts are binned into multiple part numbers, or all parts are unbinned and have the same part number. In this case they're all binned.

 

[Apple_Robert]

You could have looked at the specs a head of time and saved yourself a return. Sounds like you got caught up in new product hype and made a buy you didn’t need.

 

[RumorConsumer]

Pedantry exception: there isn't an unbinned part. Binning is the process of separating a production run of parts meant to be the same into groups based on their post production results. Either all parts are binned into multiple part numbers, or all parts are unbinned and have the same part number. In this case they're all binned.

Sorry come again? There are different flavors of M4 Pro with different core counts. Those aren't due to different manufacturing, they're due to manufacturing error allowing for different options based on the viable production output.

 

[RumorConsumer]

You could have looked at the specs a head of time and saved yourself a return. Sounds like you got caught up in new product hype and made a buy you didn’t need.

Is that what it sounds like? The specs say the M1 Max delivers 2300 in single core Geekbench while the M4 Pro returns 3940 (my machines number). That is an insane delta, and it was big enough that I wanted to know how it would feel if I upgraded. The answer - barely noticeable unless I was actually doing something with a progress bar which is infrequently.

 

[throAU]

Yeah I think if you're planning to go from a max to a pro, maybe next generation. Unless you literally just want to refresh to maintain warranty or expense for tax, etc. - its a sidestep doing that at best.

As it is, if you're staying at the same tier there's a big gap now. Going from M1 to M4 generation at same tier you get 50% plus more (some cases way more), ray tracing support, etc.

Myself, I went up a tier (Pro to max) because I believe that M4 max is now good enough for me to ditch my desktop.

vs. any other portables that are actually not tied to a wall outlet, M1, M2 and M3 machines are still amazing as far as performance goes!

 

[Analog Kid]

Sorry come again? There are different flavors of M4 Pro with different core counts. Those aren't due to different manufacturing, they're due to manufacturing error allowing for different options based on the viable production output.

Yes, because of the manufacturing imperfections, different parts are placed in different "bins". Every part is put in the appropriate bin. They are all binned-- some in 12/16 bin and some in the 14/20 bin. No M4 Pro is "unbinned".

 

[LogicalApex]

Pedantry exception: there isn't an unbinned part. Binning is the process of separating a production run of parts meant to be the same into groups based on their post production results. Either all parts are binned into multiple part numbers, or all parts are unbinned and have the same part number. In this case they're all binned.

Good to see 👍🏾

I have no idea where this “unbinned”stuff seems to be coming from on the Mac side. But it makes zero sense and is extremely confusing nomenclature.

Sorry come again? There are different flavors of M4 Pro with different core counts. Those aren't due to different manufacturing, they're due to manufacturing error allowing for different options based on the viable production output.

Even the top tier version will have variations in manufacturing. That’s the silicon lottery.

Companies will create lower tier SKUs to increase viable yield during manufacturing, but those are SKUs. SKUs are represented by bins, but it doesn’t make sense to describe a top tier as somehow not being sorted.

What Is Binning? A Basic Definition

What is the meaning of binning? CPU, GPU and RAM binning explained.

www.tomshardware.com

 

[RumorConsumer]

Yes, because of the manufacturing imperfections, different parts are placed in different "bins". Every part is put in the appropriate bin. They are all binned-- some in 12/16 bin and some in the 14/20 bin. No M4 Pro is "unbinned".

I see I see. Ok good distinction. High bin low bin.

 

[ILoveCalvinCool]

Does “unbinned” just mean “base model”?

 

[PsykX]

Does “unbinned” just mean “base model”?

Binned = Base
Unbinned = Maxed out SoC

 

[honcho]

Still using mine. The M4 Mac mini is obviously faster as it's 5 years newer. But the 2019 Intel is still okay for a lot of tasks.

I’m using a 2019 Macbook Pro. It’s the 2.4GHz i9 model with 32GB RAM, 8GB Radeon 5500m, and a 1TB SSD. I chose the worst possible time to spend £3500 on a laptop, months before the switch to Apple Silicon, but it has served me well. It can do most things but, increasingly, I am unable to use certain software features. The writing is on the wall.

I can’t say I have ever loved this machine. The fans ramp up with slightest pressure. I am about to order a 14” M4 Pro MacBook Pro to replace it. Apparently, the 12-core version is the quietest. I’ll go for that. After 5 years of constant fan noise, I want something less intrusive. I hope I am not disappointed. From now on, I’ll be going mid-range and upgrading more frequently.

 

[RumorConsumer]

I’m using a 2019 Macbook Pro. It’s the 2.4GHz i9 model with 32GB RAM, 8GB Radeon 5500m, and a 1TB SSD. I chose the worst possible time to spend £3500 on a laptop, months before the switch to Apple Silicon, but it has served me well. It can do most things but, increasingly, I am unable to use certain software features. The writing is on the wall.

I can’t say I have ever loved this machine. The fans ramp up with slightest pressure. I am about to order a 14” M4 Pro MacBook Pro to replace it. Apparently, the 12-core version is the quietest. I’ll go for that. After 5 years of constant fan noise, I want something less intrusive. I hope I am not disappointed. From now on, I’ll be going mid-range and upgrading more frequently.

Do it!!
And know you can get amazing performance and no fan noise from a used M1 Max. And spend half or less the money. Truly.

 

[callumrd1]

I’m using a 2019 Macbook Pro. It’s the 2.4GHz i9 model with 32GB RAM, 8GB Radeon 5500m, and a 1TB SSD. I chose the worst possible time to spend £3500 on a laptop, months before the switch to Apple Silicon, but it has served me well. It can do most things but, increasingly, I am unable to use certain software features. The writing is on the wall.

I can’t say I have ever loved this machine. The fans ramp up with slightest pressure. I am about to order a 14” M4 Pro MacBook Pro to replace it. Apparently, the 12-core version is the quietest. I’ll go for that. After 5 years of constant fan noise, I want something less intrusive. I hope I am not disappointed. From now on, I’ll be going mid-range and upgrading more frequently.

I just did the same thing: (16" MBP w/ 2.3 GHz i9, 32GB RAM, 2TB SSD) -> (14" MBP w/ 14/20 M4 Pro, 48GB RAM, 1TB SSD). I'm amazed at the performance difference compared to my previous 16" MacBook Pro. And the only times I've heard the fans are when pinning the CPU and GPU for extended periods. Even for 3-4 minute exports from Lightroom the fans are completely silent. And the responsiveness when manipulating big CAD models is vastly superior. It's a bigger improvement than I had anticipated and I have no regrets.

 

[honcho]

Do it!!
And know you can get amazing performance and no fan noise from a used M1 Max. And spend half or less the money. Truly.

Thanks for the encouragement. I am going to go M4 this time for the ongoing OS support. As someone who remembers the PowerMac era, Apple Silicon is a truly seismic shift. It is undoubtedly Apple’s greatest innovation in recent years

I just did the same thing: (16" MBP w/ 2.3 GHz i9, 32GB RAM, 2TB SSD) -> (14" MBP w/ 14/20 M4 Pro, 48GB RAM, 1TB SSD). I'm amazed at the performance difference compared to my previous 16" MacBook Pro. And the only times I've heard the fans are when pinning the CPU and GPU for extended periods. Even for 3-4 minute exports from Lightroom the fans are completely silent. And the responsiveness when manipulating big CAD models is vastly superior. It's a bigger improvement than I had anticipated and I have no regrets.

Congratulations on the new MBP! Hearing that your fans are silent is music to my ears. I was worried about getting another noisy machine. The only thing that I am unsure about is the amount of RAM to get. Coming from an Intel machine with 32GB of RAM and 8GB GPU, I wonder whether 24GB will be enough for my needs given that it’s unified memory and Apple Intelligence is now a feature.

 

[triptolemus]

Pedantry exception: there isn't an unbinned part. Binning is the process of separating a production run of parts meant to be the same into groups based on their post production results. Either all parts are binned into multiple part numbers, or all parts are unbinned and have the same part number. In this case they're all binned.

Thank you.

I've noticed a dramatic uptick in the use of this term recently. Many users of it don't seem to know what it means.

 

[LogicalApex]

Congratulations on the new MBP! Hearing that your fans are silent is music to my ears. I was worried about getting another noisy machine. The only thing that I am unsure about is the amount of RAM to get. Coming from an Intel machine with 32GB of RAM and 8GB GPU, I wonder whether 24GB will be enough for my needs given that it’s unified memory and Apple Intelligence is now a feature.

It will depend on what your usage is like, but I'd suggest looking at Activity Monitor for your current workloads to get an idea of how much memory pressure you're experiencing. For most users, the lower RAM amounts are more than enough. Apple Intelligence currently isn't very taxing on RAM. Locally running LLMs are, but few users are running these enough to justify paying for the extra RAM to Apple versus using online platforms like ChatGPT or Claude. It is mostly the developer crowd like myself who are doing this.

While running a larger local LLM model you can see the memory pressure showing, at least for this model, I'm right sized memory wise for my M4 Pro.

With the local LLM closed off and 20 tabs loaded in FF and over 30 tabs with multiple windows open in Safari, among other things, you can see my memory pressure is extremely low and I could get by easily for that workload on the 24GB base RAM offered on my 16" MBP.

 

[familychoice]

Still using mine. The M4 Mac mini is obviously faster as it's 5 years newer. But the 2019 Intel is still okay for a lot of tasks.

Still using my late Intel 16” MBP too. Obviously the silicons are faster, cooler, longer battery etc., but that doesn’t make the one I have completely useless - it didn’t suddenly fall apart when the M-chips came out, I just carried on using it exactly as I had before. The battery is still 100%, and for general office type work, web browsing etc., it’s a joy to use. Currently doing my accounts on it.

Only time the fans come on is when I’m pushing it with Ableton Live, so I’m going to get a 14” M4 to use with that and future-proof my setup for a while longer, but I’m keeping the Intel for general use.

 

[TechnoMonk]

I upgrade mac book pro every 5 years after professional use, and use till it’s obsolete as backup. 2019 Intel 16 inch was worst MBP I ever owned. Ran hot and loud and throttled. I was testing windows laptops, but M1 Max came along and I got rid of that junk. I will probably upgrade to M5/M6. Hoping Apple will support 256 GB RAM with M5/M6 MBP.

 

[neotint]

16" M4 Pro 14c is a beast make no mistake. I got the M4 Pro 14c with 48gb RAM and 2TB SSD. I used it for about 5 days. It's a great machine. And it is not appreciably better than this M1 Max 16" MacBook Pro at anything I do. I have about 25gb of RAM used at any given time. Thats about 20 apps of various kinds open. Lots of communications apps, Remote Desktop, Zoom, etc. Not LLM, not a lot of video encoding (though sometimes). And I am sitting there thinking to myself "You know, I really don't feel THAT much of a difference. For the several grand this thing cost I just can't justify. Especially when I'd need to sell this M1 Max for like $1800 which is just peanuts compared to how much value it feels like is left in the machine. At this point, I am gonna stick around for the redesign.

The bottom line: Apple Silicon changed everything. I could not wait to give up my 16" Intel i9 MBP from 2019 when this M1 Max came. But we are in a different era and I could not be happier with Apple right now and the way things are looking.

PS. This is coming from a former Apple employee of 6 years who has probably had about 30 high powered Macs.

what's your memory pressure looking like when working?

 

[neotint]

It will depend on what your usage is like, but I'd suggest looking at Activity Monitor for your current workloads to get an idea of how much memory pressure you're experiencing. For most users, the lower RAM amounts are more than enough. Apple Intelligence currently isn't very taxing on RAM. Locally running LLMs are, but few users are running these enough to justify paying for the extra RAM to Apple versus using online platforms like ChatGPT or Claude. It is mostly the developer crowd like myself who are doing this.

While running a larger local LLM model you can see the memory pressure showing, at least for this model, I'm right sized memory wise for my M4 Pro.

View attachment 2455062

With the local LLM closed off and 20 tabs loaded in FF and over 30 tabs with multiple windows open in Safari, among other things, you can see my memory pressure is extremely low and I could get by easily for that workload on the 24GB base RAM offered on my 16" MBP.

View attachment 2455070

What's your memory pressure % during regular work use? I like to keep it in the green (at less than 50%) for regular usage, so there's headroom for intense use... and future proofing.