Mac mini M4 Pro Pricing vs Upcoming M4 Max Mac Studio

[Woodcrest64]

If the M4 Max studio retains the same pricing as the current M2 Max Studio that top tier M4 Pro mini isn't worth it IMO.

The base Mac M4 mini is a real bargain. However the M4 Pro mini isn't all that great in terms of pricing when you start maxing it out compared to the Mac Studio.

My only thought around this would be that Apple increases the price of the Mac Studio when they launch the M4 Max and Ultra for it.


Mac mini M4 Pro with the 14 Core CPU and the 20 Core GPU
64GB Memory
2TB SSD
10Gbps ethernet
=$2,799.00 USD



Mac Studio
M2 Max 12 core CPU & 16 Core GPU (Eventually will be a M4 Max 14 Core CPU & 32 Core GPU)
64GB memory
2TB SSD
Built in 10Gbps ethernet
=$2,999.00 USD

 

[splifingate]

My same-spec Studio only costs me electricity (and very little of that, as things stand).

I am excited to experience TB5, and finally get {to avail myself of} two x4 external nvme + two 4K displays easily sharing one cable; but, there's no real urgency on my part . . .

What's your dilemma, Woodcrest64?

 

[Woodcrest64]

My same-spec Studio only costs me electricity (and very little of that, as things stand).

I am excited to experience TB5, and finally get {to avail myself of} two x4 external nvme + two 4K displays easily sharing one cable; but, there's no real urgency on my part . . .

What's your dilemma, Woodcrest64?

I’m looking to add a desktop Mac for some more heavy lifting and was looking at the Mac mini M4 Pro but after specking it out with what I wanted I’m better off waiting for the M4 Mac Studio with only a small price difference.

 

[mcnallym]

If the M4 Max studio retains the same pricing as the current M2 Max Studio that top tier M4 Pro mini isn't worth it IMO.

The base Mac M4 mini is a real bargain. However the M4 Pro mini isn't all that great in terms of pricing when you start maxing it out compared to the Mac Studio.

My only thought around this would be that Apple increases the price of the Mac Studio when they launch the M4 Max and Ultra for it.


Mac mini M4 Pro with the 14 Core CPU and the 20 Core GPU
64GB Memory
2TB SSD
10Gbps ethernet
=$2,799.00 USD



Mac Studio
M2 Max 12 core CPU & 16 Core GPU (Eventually will be a M4 Max 14 Core CPU & 32 Core GPU)
64GB memory
2TB SSD
Built in 10Gbps ethernet
=$2,999.00 USD

This has been true since the Max Studio launched. In fact when you took the price points for upgrades then there was simply no price point for an M1 Pro Mini.

Once you spec a Mini Pro to 32Gb RAM and 512Gb Storage then you may as well buy a Studio.

 

[picpicmac]

If the M4 Max studio retains the same pricing...

Despite all the rumour mongers stirring up anticipation - to get views on their YouTube videos - there is no indication from Apple of an imminent new Mac Studio.

There could be such a beast, of course.

I ask myself: why did Apple come out with such an impressive Mac Mini in the M4 Pro?

Answer to myself: because they know there is still a market, albeit small, for a desktop with their Apple Silicon, by professionals such as photographers.

Maybe the point of the M4 Pro Mac Mini is to fill a need for a while, maybe a whole year, before a desktop that has higher performance?

And if there is a new desktop Mac, are we sure it will be a "Mac Studio"?

And, given the state of global economic nationalism raising tariff barriers, any future desktop Mac might be quite expensive.

Note that for the new Mini that Apple went to a less expensive to build form. Extruded aluminium instead of milled, an all plastic bottom, and fewer ports (for the M4 Pro compared to the M2 Pro Mini).

I propose that you need to carefully lay out your requirements and see what can meet them.

Do you really need more than 24GB of RAM? Or more than 48GB of RAM?


I am still waiting to buy a desktop, but my current interest in learning more about LLMs means I want lots and lots of RAM. That will be expensive (regardless of vendor.)

In summary: you may have to wait a while.

 

[ChrisA]

My guess is that Apple wants to get rid of the Mac Pro. But they can't

I am still waiting to buy a desktop, but my current interest in learning more about LLMs means I want lots and lots of RAM. That will be expensive (regardless of vendor.)

In summary: you may have to wait a while.

If you are running LLMs on a desktop, the realistic limit is about 8 billion parameters. This is enough to do quite a lot.

In my case, my goal is to learn how to convert input text into a sequence of physical actions like "Robbie, pick up the green cube" and then a real robot arm actually picks up the green cube. These kinds of experiments run on even a 16GB M2.


If your goal is simply to run a "full size" LLM locally then a Mac is not what you want. These things run on Linux and Nvidia or rather Linux and Nvidia on a cloud server.

My m2-pro 16GB Mini is the smallest Mac I would want that still can support use of LLMs in robotics. If I were buying today I'm double those numbers to M4 and 32GB and GPU cores REALY do matter, the more the better.

the larger 200B parameter models simply will not ever run on a Mini but for almost all research you might do on a student/hobby budget will be with up to 8B parameter models.

 

[splifingate]

I’m looking to add a desktop Mac for some more heavy lifting and was looking at the Mac mini M4 Pro but after specking it out with what I wanted I’m better off waiting for the M4 Mac Studio with only a small price difference.

If you can wait, I'm sure it'll be worth it.

Mine spends more time waiting on me than I do it

 

[EugW]

Despite all the rumour mongers stirring up anticipation - to get views on their YouTube videos - there is no indication from Apple of an imminent new Mac Studio.

There could be such a beast, of course.

I ask myself: why did Apple come out with such an impressive Mac Mini in the M4 Pro?

Answer to myself: because they know there is still a market, albeit small, for a desktop with their Apple Silicon, by professionals such as photographers.

Maybe the point of the M4 Pro Mac Mini is to fill a need for a while, maybe a whole year, before a desktop that has higher performance?

And if there is a new desktop Mac, are we sure it will be a "Mac Studio"?

And, given the state of global economic nationalism raising tariff barriers, any future desktop Mac might be quite expensive.

Note that for the new Mini that Apple went to a less expensive to build form. Extruded aluminium instead of milled, an all plastic bottom, and fewer ports (for the M4 Pro compared to the M2 Pro Mini).

I propose that you need to carefully lay out your requirements and see what can meet them.

Do you really need more than 24GB of RAM? Or more than 48GB of RAM?


I am still waiting to buy a desktop, but my current interest in learning more about LLMs means I want lots and lots of RAM. That will be expensive (regardless of vendor.)

In summary: you may have to wait a while.

I don’t think the Mac Studio is imminent either, but it should be noted that most pundits also don’t think that. They say it will be here sometime in 2025, and I agree with them, but that’s not the same thing as imminent.

OTOH, I think the M4 MacBook Air release for example is imminent.

 

[theluggage]

My only thought around this would be that Apple increases the price of the Mac Studio when they launch the M4 Max and Ultra for it.

The MBP Max got a price bump (along with a 4G base RAM bump) with the M3 generation, which hasn’t hit the studio yet. So I really wouldn’t assume that a M4 Max Studio will still start at $2000.

Ok, nobody knows if a M4 Max Studio is actually coming or, if so, at what price, but the best we can do to predict the price is to look at the MBP range.

MBP 14” M4 Pro, 14 CPU, 20 GPU, 24GB $2399
MBP 14” M4 Max, 14 CPU, 32 GPU, 36GB, $3199
Difference is Max chip & 12GB extra RAM = $800

Mini M4 Pro, 14 CPU, 20 GPU, 24GB $1599
Add $800 for M4 Max and 36GB -> $2399

Or, that $2400 could get you a M4 Pro Mini with 64GB RAM and 1TB SSD, which for some applications might be more valuable than - certainly the 14 core - M4 Max.

Despite all the rumour mongers stirring up anticipation - to get views on their YouTube videos - there is no indication from Apple of an imminent new Mac Studio.

100% this, a M4 Studio seems likely but it is not by any means a certainty. There are several other ways that Apple might go.

My guess is that Apple wants to get rid of the Mac Pro. But they can't

I wouldn’t be surprised if the current Mac Pro is the last of that breed, even if the name continues . It’s already effectively “just” a Studio Ultra with PCIe slots - aimed at a niche for whom external TB3 to PCIe enclosures don’t cut the mustard. The arrival of TB5 should improve external PCIe bandwidth, so Apple might decide that should be the way forward. The next “Mac Pro” could be a Studio-like device.

There are also rumours of Apple working on a “server class” chip which could form the basis of a future “real” Mac Pro. But I guess that would be AI development-focussed rather than video/graphics focussed.

I am still waiting to buy a desktop, but my current interest in learning more about LLMs means I want lots and lots of RAM. That will be expensive

Vanilla x86/Ryzen tower running Linux with plenty of RAM and a PCIe GPU card will be a lot cheaper than anything comparable with a fruity logo.

 

[Fishrrman]

Maybe it's just me, but for some reason there have been very few rumors about the upcoming new Mac Studio.

Usually within 3-4 months of the release, we'd know more about "what's coming" than we have yet seen for this one...

 

[JSRinUK]

I am still waiting to buy a desktop, but my current interest in learning more about LLMs means I want lots and lots of RAM. That will be expensive (regardless of vendor.)

This is why I’m hoping on the M4 Studio, too.

My MBP has 24GB RAM and it’s “okay” for playing about with LLM, but it struggles when I’m also running Stable Diffusion for images and Parallels.

That isn’t my main reason, however. I find the limitation of context size is my biggest bugbear of LLM. When working on longer documents, or trying to have an ongoing brainstorming session, the context window is just too small.

I can squeeze to an 8K context window on my MBP, but that’s just not enough for my requirements.

If the M4 Max Studio comes out with, say, 128GB RAM for around £3,000-£3,200 while I still have my budget available, it’ll very likely be a day one purchase for me. However, the longer Apple delay, the more my budget may get diverted elsewhere.

 

[McScooby]

As a noodler, the comparison could be M5 mini pro vs M4 Studio...

 

[picpicmac]

but for almost all research you might do on a student/hobby budget will be with up to 8B parameter models.

I do not concur.

I find the 7b models to be ok... but only ok.

There are plenty examples on YouTube showing people running 32b models, even 70b models.

Apple Silicon's unified memory is much better for this than the x86/x64 architecture PCs that depend upon "graphics" cards.

The full monty (DeepSeek or Llama) is going to be difficult for any but the most dedicated home users, who sets up a full lab.

Any future Mac Studio (assuming there will be such a beast) should be able to do 70b models.

 

[picpicmac]

Vanilla x86/Ryzen tower running Linux with plenty of RAM and a PCIe GPU card will be a lot cheaper than anything comparable with a fruity logo.

Demonstrations by people online clearly show that such a setup will be slow. The reason PC users can get by with small LLM models is because they have Nvidia cards with 8GB or 16GB of VRAM, which constrains the size of the models but if one works within the size parameters of the card then the tokens/second is reasonable.

Once the processing depends upon the x86/x64 and the memory on the PCI bus then the models slow down considerably.

That's the problem with the PC world (and the wildly marked-up Nvidia cards, now selling for multiples of the suggested retail prices.)

What Apple Silicon has going for it (among other things) is the very high memory bandwidth. This comes about because each SDRAM chip has its dedicated memory controller on the SoC.

Hence, I too am awaiting the next Mac Studio, or whatever Apple decides to sell, that can offer at least 128GB of unified memory. The M4 Pro Mini is too limited.

 

[buggz]

Shrug, not lightening fast, but works for me...

My M4 Mac Mini Pro, 64GB, shows the following on the last session:

Assistant
qwen2.5-coder-32b-instruct@q8_0

5.65 tok/sec
828 tokens
1.67s to first token

 

[JSRinUK]

Shrug, not lightening fast, but works for me...

My M4 Mac Mini Pro, 64GB, shows the following on the last session:

Assistant
qwen2.5-coder-32b-instruct@q8_0

5.65 tok/sec
828 tokens
1.67s to first token

What context length do you find works well for you?

I’m using LLM to brainstorm a story I’m writing, and it’s difficult to get it to keep up with the narrative. Even working on one scene at a time, I find it difficult to work within the context length. Using Gemma-The-Writer-N-Restless-Quill-10B-max-cpu-D_AU-Q6_k.gguf with a context length of 8,000 is just about all that my 24GB MBP can handle, but 8,000 tokens is not nearly enough for my needs - which is why I’m eyeing up a Studio with lots of RAM in the future.

 

[buggz]

What context length do you find works well for you?

I really don't know, I am still trying to learn all of this, and am a super newb with all of this.
What ever is default for that model via LM Studio, is what I currently use.

 

[JSRinUK]

I really don't know, I am still trying to learn all of this, and am a super newb with all of this.
What ever is default for that model via LM Studio, is what I currently use.

Fair enough. For most purposes, a context length of around 2,000 tokens is probably just fine. I think the model you’ve listed can have up to 128,000 tokens - but I’m guessing that would require a lot of RAM (definitely far more than my humble 24GB).

I tried to have a 5,000 word scene summarised by Gemma-The-Writer-N-Restless-Quill-10B-max-cpu-D_AU-Q6_k.gguf on LM Studio with a context length of 8,000 tokens and it insisted on splitting it up into three “citations” and all the LLM would do is given me a summary of the last few paragraphs. Completely useless. Splitting it into two acts (of 2,000 and 3,000 words) allowed it to summarise each piece successfully. This is the reason I’m interested in context length and RAM size.

 

[Chuckeee]

This has been true since the Max Studio launched. In fact when you took the price points for upgrades then there was simply no price point for an M1 Pro Mini.

Once you spec a Mini Pro to 32Gb RAM and 512Gb Storage then you may as well buy a Studio.

Did you mean M2 Pro mini? There never was an M1 Pro mini. The first pro chip mini was the M2 pro mini.

BTW I do agree with your original intent. That this is an old issue that the max studio was always a better buy than a loaded mini with a pro chip.

 

[Canadia69]

Just ordered my M4 Pro 14/20 cores 48gb ram with 1tb , it was 2900 CAD and I must admit that when looking at the Mac studio's 2700 CAD starting price i feel like could have been more patient but when upgrading the studio to 1tb and 64gb (since theres no 48gb) price becomes 3450 CAD...and tbh the M4 Pro is all I need so Im happy....unless they make the ultra start at 48gb, then Ill feel ripped off lol

 

[Allen_Wentz]

If the M4 Max studio retains the same pricing as the current M2 Max Studio that top tier M4 Pro mini isn't worth it IMO.

The base Mac M4 mini is a real bargain. However the M4 Pro mini isn't all that great in terms of pricing when you start maxing it out compared to the Mac Studio.

My only thought around this would be that Apple increases the price of the Mac Studio when they launch the M4 Max and Ultra for it.


Mac mini M4 Pro with the 14 Core CPU and the 20 Core GPU
64GB Memory
2TB SSD
10Gbps ethernet
=$2,799.00 USD



Mac Studio
M2 Max 12 core CPU & 16 Core GPU (Eventually will be a M4 Max 14 Core CPU & 32 Core GPU)
64GB memory
2TB SSD
Built in 10Gbps ethernet
=$2,999.00 USD

Apple usually does not increase its already high pricing with new models unless there is some special change. Normally we just get value add with each new model year. So I will be surprised if "Apple increases the price of the Mac Studio when they launch the M4 Max and Ultra for it."

That said, given that Apple skipped the M3 chips with the Studio perhaps we will indeed see some special change with concomitant pricing change.

 

[Canadia69]

Reading this thread making me doubt my decision...Will definitlely think about returning it during the 30 day return window if we get more rumors on the studio

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Maybe it's just me, but for some reason there have been very few rumors about the upcoming new Mac Studio.

Usually within 3-4 months of the release, we'd know more about "what's coming" than we have yet seen for this one...

IMO "leaks" are mostly Apple marketing minimizing surprises that could be unhealthy for business. My guess is most folks simply expect Max/Ultra M4, so no surprises, nothing to leak. If there is a surprise it will be at the top end, a Mac Pro or a super ultra or whatever, and Apple is keeping that secret to make a splash. But neither you nor I will be buying at that top end.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Reading this thread making me doubt my decision...Will definitlely think about returning it during the 30 day return window if we get more rumors on the studio

What Studio rumor would impact you? A minimum of M4 Max and Ultra with 128/256 GB available RAM is almost a sure thing. The only relevant issues for your needs are the release date and the pricing. Pricing is unlikely to vary much from previous Studios.

M4 Studio release date is hella challenging, just like with M2. I bought an M2 MBP because M2 Studios took too long getting released. In my case I considered Mac minis unacceptable due to less available RAM.

 

[Canadia69]

What Studio rumor would impact you? A minimum of M4 Max and Ultra with 128/256 GB available RAM is almost a sure thing. The only relevant issues for your needs are the release date and the pricing. Pricing is unlikely to vary much from previous Studios.

M4 Studio release date is hella challenging, just like with M2. I bought an M2 MBP because M2 Studios took too long getting released. In my case I considered Mac minis unacceptable due to less available RAM.

Like a rumor of it coming out around march.. bc for me its the waiting until june that made me pull the plug on the M4 Pro

Also the 550 CAD difference (between M4 Pro 48gb-1tb and Studio 64gb -1tb) felt kind of justified...but thinking about it now its 550 for a much better chip and 18gb more of memory..so i dont know anymore.

M4 pro feels more than enough for my coding needs but maybe Studio max is worth it..i feel so lost now