Mac Mini M4 Pro - Ram question

[JoeStrummer]

I run a photographic print studio. Spend most of my time in Photoshop with large multi-layer high res files, also Lightroom and DxO plus some others. No video work. My trusty and loved 2012 Mac Pro 5.1 is has finally come close to the end. I need to upgrade. Looking at the Mini M4 Pro with stock 24GB RAM.

My question...is that enough RAM for big files (often up to 2GB and more) in Photoshop?
Getting more RAM installed is expensive and will take ages (Im based in South Africa, will take at least a month if not more)
Will it really make a big difference in how the system handles image files?

Thanks

 

[Bigwaff]

My trusty and loved 2012 Mac Pro 5.1 is has finally come close to the end. I need to upgrade. Looking at the Mini M4 Pro with stock 24GB RAM.

My question...is that enough RAM for big files (often up to 2GB and more) in Photoshop?

How much RAM in cMP5,1? Version of macOS used w/ cMP5,1? Version of Photoshop used w/ cMP5,1? Hard to answer questions related to RAM usage comparison w/out understanding where you are starting from.

 

[PaulD-UK]

YouTuber ArtisRight has done a number of photographic test videos.
In one of his latest videos he's saying that Photoshop is mostly single-cored, and more RAM increases performance.
But his base M4Pro Mac mini 24/512 seems to have no problem handling PS files up to 56GB... 😀

 

[JoeStrummer]

How much RAM in cMP5,1? Version of macOS used w/ cMP5,1? Version of Photoshop used w/ cMP5,1? Hard to answer questions related to RAM usage comparison w/out understanding where you are starting from.

Thanks for your reply. My current specs are "Mac Pro 5.1, 2x X5680 CPU, Sapphire RX 580 GPU, 48GB RAM, boot from samsung 970PRO 512GB NVMe

 

[JoeStrummer]

YouTuber ArtisRight has done a number of photographic test videos.
In one of his latest videos he's saying that Photoshop is mostly single-cored, and more RAM increases performance.
But his base M4Pro Mac mini 24/512 seems to have no problem handling PS files up to 56GB... 😀

View attachment 2504227

Thanks for this , great resource going to check it out

 

[picpicmac]

My current specs are "Mac Pro 5.1, 2x X5680 CPU, Sapphire RX 580 GPU, 48GB RAM

When you use your Mac Pro, do you look at the Memory Pressure?

Going from 48GB down to 24GB is quite a jump down. Art, (as in the video linked above) warns that going down to 24GB might have an impact.

I get that you don't want to wait for a custom spec Mini, so have you looked at the base model M4 Mac Studio? Apple in your region certainly will have some base configs of the Studio available, so you won't have to wait for a custom order from Vietnam or China. The base M4 Studio comes with 36GB of RAM.

 

[PaulD-UK]

ArtIsRight highlights an anomaly in Photoshop's performance, where the base M4 Pro Mac mini is faster than the base M4 Max Mac Studio.
This is with huge files involving internal scratch disk swap files...:

 

[JoeStrummer]

When you use your Mac Pro, do you look at the Memory Pressure?

Going from 48GB down to 24GB is quite a jump down. Art, (as in the video linked above) warns that going down to 24GB might have an impact.

I get that you don't want to wait for a custom spec Mini, so have you looked at the base model M4 Mac Studio? Apple in your region certainly will have some base configs of the Studio available, so you won't have to wait for a custom order from Vietnam or China. The base M4 Studio comes with 36GB of RAM.

When using my Mac pro 5.1 I find the memory tends to get quickly cached, not enough to give me 'not enough ram' warnings, but definitely the whole systems slows down significantly. Shutting down PS releases the ram. So a couple times a day I have to save what Im working on, shut down PS, and then reopen

Locally the base Mac Studio M4 is out of my price range

So I am looking at either a Mac Mini M4 Pro with 24GB Ram and 512 storage.

Or...a used Mac Studio M2 Max with 32 GB Ram, which is priced at a little more then the new Mini M4 Pro

Currently leaning towards the Mini M4 Pro

?

 

[PaulD-UK]

Since you are going to need external SSDs for nearly everything if you only have 512GB internally, then the M4 Pro mini’s TB5 ports will speed up any USB4 external SSDs you attach, by about 12-15%.

 

[rudo.ba]

Go with at least 1 TB internal SSD. I have base M2 max mac studio with 512 GB SSD (just for system and apps, ca 370 GB free), and here and there, when editing monster PSBs, free storage decreasing to 2-3 GB (and therefore can not export all artboards, only in parts). Also not very safe going to zero space. I'll try using an external SSD as scratch disk for Photoshop (I am waiting for the delivery of the ordered Acasis TB3 frame, was in sale for 48 eur last week).

 

[apostolosdt]

I own a Mac Pro 5,1 12-core CPU and 64GB RAM; I don't use it anymore (newer Macs in the house). I do a lot of photo work on computer and my experience says Minis are not for photographers running pro businesses, irrespective of the RAM!

Follow others' advice above and consider a Studio Max; even M1 is a better choice, but pay attention to its GPU number of cores (go for the 32-core model). With the M4 Max now in the market, you can find an M1 Max reasonably cheap.

 

[JoeStrummer]

Thanks for the feedback
Unfortunately I need to make a decision in a bit of a hurry, have clients waiting for work.
At the moment my choices are...
A new Mac Mini M4 Pro with 12 core CPU, 16 core GPU, 24GB ram, 512GB storage
or ..
A used Mac Studio M2 Max with 12 core CPU, 30 core GPU, 32GB ram, 512GB storage

The new MM is from the store and covered by warrenty etc. the used MS is from a private seller (unknown factor) and a bit more expensive

Kind of leaning towards the Mini, especially after watching this video where the Mini is often outperforming the Studio in the Photoshop benchmarks that I'm interested in

 

[Rychiar]

I run a photographic print studio. Spend most of my time in Photoshop with large multi-layer high res files, also Lightroom and DxO plus some others. No video work. My trusty and loved 2012 Mac Pro 5.1 is has finally come close to the end. I need to upgrade. Looking at the Mini M4 Pro with stock 24GB RAM.

My question...is that enough RAM for big files (often up to 2GB and more) in Photoshop?
Getting more RAM installed is expensive and will take ages (Im based in South Africa, will take at least a month if not more)
Will it really make a big difference in how the system handles image files?

Thanks

its plenty. I work on PS files even bigger than that on the base $499 Mac mini m4. I'm coming from a maxed out Intel 2027 iMac and its a word of difference in power

 

[MacCheetah3]

When you use your Mac Pro, do you look at the Memory Pressure?

When using my Mac pro 5.1 I find the memory tends to get quickly cached, not enough to give me 'not enough ram' warnings, but definitely the whole systems slows down significantly. Shutting down PS releases the ram. So a couple times a day I have to save what Im working on, shut down PS, and then reopen

The reference was to this as you can’t simply gauge based on the amount of memory used.

Check if your Mac needs more RAM in Activity Monitor

Use Activity Monitor on your Mac to see if memory is being used efficiently and if you need more memory (RAM).

support.apple.com

Additionally, here are some tips direct from Adobe, including:

By default, Photoshop uses 70% of available RAM.

1. Increase the RAM allocated to Photoshop by changing the value in the Let Photoshop Use box. Alternatively, adjust the Memory Usage slider.
2. Restart Photoshop to enable your changes.

To find the ideal RAM allocation for your system, change it in 5% increments and monitor performance in the Efficiency indicator.

We don't recommend allocating more than 85% of your computer's memory to Photoshop. Doing so may affect performance by leaving no memory for other essential system applications.

Optimize Photoshop performance

Tweak your operating system, hardware, and application settings to help your computer run Photoshop stably at the optimum speed. If Photoshop is running slower than expected on your computer, or if you're experiencing system freezes, lags, or delays while using Photoshop, try the tips and...

helpx.adobe.com

I own a Mac Pro 5,1 12-core CPU and 64GB RAM; I don't use it anymore (newer Macs in the house). I do a lot of photo work on computer and my experience says Minis are not for photographers running pro businesses, irrespective of the RAM!

Joke?

Anyway… Regarding the other point:

Follow others' advice above and consider a Studio Max; even M1 is a better choice, but pay attention to its GPU number of cores (go for the 32-core model). With the M4 Max now in the market, you can find an M1 Max reasonably cheap.

Another Adobe document:

Which features in Photoshop use the graphics processor?​

Features that require a GPU for acceleration

• Artboards (more info)
• Blur Gallery - OpenCL accelerated
• Camera Raw (more info)
• Image Size – Preserve Details (more info)
• Lens Blur (more info)
• Neural Filters (more info)
• Select Focus (more info)
• Select and Mask - OpenCL accelerated (more info)
• Smart Sharpen - OpenCL accelerated (more info)

Features that won't work without a GPU: If your graphics processor is unsupported or its driver is defective, the following Photoshop features won't work —

• 3D
• Birds Eye View (more info)
• Flick Panning (more info)
• Oil Paint (more info)
• Perspective Warp (more info)
• Render – Flame, Picture Frame, and Tree
• Scrubby Zoom
• Smooth Brush Resizing (more info)

Photoshop GPU FAQ

Find answers to commonly asked questions about Photoshop and graphics processor (GPU) card usage.

helpx.adobe.com

ArtIsRight highlights an anomaly in Photoshop's performance, where the base M4 Pro Mac mini is faster than the base M4 Max Mac Studio.

View attachment 2504250

I did notice in the previously posted graph:

View attachment 2504227

It wouldn’t seem obvious based on the system RAM amounts but I still wonder if the performance hit could, at least somewhat, be related to the allocation of more than 85% of system memory, which (as noted earlier in this post) is not recommended by Adobe.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

I run a photographic print studio. Spend most of my time in Photoshop with large multi-layer high res files, also Lightroom and DxO plus some others. No video work. My trusty and loved 2012 Mac Pro 5.1 is has finally come close to the end. I need to upgrade. Looking at the Mini M4 Pro with stock 24GB RAM.

My question...is that enough RAM for big files (often up to 2GB and more) in Photoshop?
Getting more RAM installed is expensive and will take ages (Im based in South Africa, will take at least a month if not more)
Will it really make a big difference in how the system handles image files?

Thanks

RAM is far more important to running the kinds of apps you describe than anything else is. An M2 with more RAM would be better than an M4 with less RAM, for instance. Think about how long you had your old Mac and remember that RAM demands increase every year.

64 GB RAM is the minimum that you should be planning for 2025-2032. That means a Studio, not a Mac mini. An M2 would be totally acceptable. I am running about the same apps as you are in an M2 MBP with 96 gigs of RAM, and my work fits well today in 64 gigs of that 96. I expect to be pushing the 96 before the end of my typical seven year Mac lifecycle.

IM0 it is totally reasonable that it "will take at least a month if not more" when making a long term computer upgrade.

 

[Dallas-Star-202504]

You should get 24gb ram, it is good for your career, and for the longivity of your usage for the mac

 

[apostolosdt]

Joke?

We are trying to help each other here. Reasonable suggestions should be welcomed—especially if grounded on personal experience and real life comparisons. I am sure you agree on that.

 

[avro707]

A new Mac Mini M4 Pro with 12 core CPU, 16 core GPU, 24GB ram, 512GB storage

If you get this one to do the work that is needed can you sell it on later and then replace with a model that has more RAM?

Is there any way the existing old machine can be extended, even with just a bit more RAM? 64GB or 96GB?

I would try to persist with the old machine and then get the M4 Pro mini with maximum RAM possible. Or an M2 Studio with even more than that.

 

[redcarian]

While more RAM is better, I have put together multi-gigabyte panoramas in PhotoShop on my 16GB M1P MBP, and it’s been fine. Sure, it’s not the fastest, but it works at an acceptable rate. So 24GB would be viable, but more would definitely improve things.

 

[MacCheetah3]

We are trying to help each other here. Reasonable suggestions should be welcomed—especially if grounded on personal experience and real life comparisons. I am sure you agree on that.

Indeed.

And, admittedly, my response choice was amiss. I’ll be more direct and inquire, what reason(s) do you see a Mac mini is not suitable for professional photography?

I won’t dismiss the ArtisRight comparison results referenced in this thread. However, the chosen test is clearly an extreme, rare, niche case. Most image editing won’t deal with file sizes greater than… I’ll guess… 5 GB.

Picture-THIS: File Size & Resolution for Digital Printing

I know these aren’t working file sizes, but even if we double the storage size, that’s ~5-6 GB for a typical billboard print.

And, I did read:

I run a photographic print studio. […] My question...is that enough RAM for big files (often up to 2GB and more) in Photoshop?

With that said, here are some averaged results:

PugetBench Compare Results

Found a problem with the benchmark data or interface? Report an issue.

www.pugetsystems.com

PugetBench Compare Results

Found a problem with the benchmark data or interface? Report an issue.

www.pugetsystems.com

PugetBench Compare Results

Found a problem with the benchmark data or interface? Report an issue.

www.pugetsystems.com

There is an advantage to the higher end processors. Although, even the biggest uplift was just a few seconds, ~27% faster, with the Adaptive Wide Angle filter — a task that requires ~30 seconds, so you’d probably briefly switch to another app while you wait anyway.

So, I’ll repeat (with sincere curiosity), what reason(s) do you see a Mac mini is not suitable for professional photography?

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Is there any way the existing old machine can be extended, even with just a bit more RAM? 64GB or 96GB?

Throwing money at really old hardware is seldom wise. Trying to do any kind of pro work on old hardware gets ...old. One really needs to be running reasonably modern and reasonably concurrent versions of apps and OS. So at some point we need to give up our old workhorse and get a more modern box. With more RAM, not with less. RAM needs have been steadily increasing for 40 years now (because using RAM is a superb way to compute). And yes RAM has always been pricey, but we get lots more for our money today.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

So, I’ll repeat (with sincere curiosity), what reason(s) do you see a Mac mini is not suitable for professional photography?

That is easy to answer: it depends on what one does in the area of "professional photography." One could do one-up art work or digital product shots or pro sports or pix of kids on ponies or construction documentation or real estate photos or fashion work or build ads with others' imagery. Certainly those that primarily just do the composing and shutter releasing do not need much computer. But in general those of us who have done a wide range of professional photography for decades have found that the apps used in images work perform most smoothly with lots of RAM. More than Apple puts into its low end computers.

Buying Apple's lowest end computer with limited RAM to build any kind of professional images operation is poor setup in most instances. Images workflows like strong hardware; bottom-of-the-line is seldom wise.

Also you said
"Although, even the biggest uplift was just a few seconds, ~27% faster, with the Adaptive Wide Angle filter — a task that requires ~30 seconds, so you’d probably briefly switch to another app while you wait anyway."
That should answer your own question. Because that is exactly what I do, "briefly switch to another app," and that process demands RAM. Minis can only be equipped with limited RAM.

 

[MacCheetah3]

That is easy to answer: it depends on what one does in the area of "professional photography." One could do one-up art work or digital product shots or pro sports or pix of kids on ponies or construction documentation or real estate photos or fashion work or build ads with others' imagery. Certainly those that primarily just do the composing and shutter releasing do not need much computer. But in general those of us who have done a wide range of professional photography for decades have found that the apps used in images work perform most smoothly with lots of RAM. More than Apple puts into its low end computers.

Buying Apple's lowest end computer with limited RAM to build any kind of professional images operation is poor setup in most instances. Images workflows like strong hardware; bottom-of-the-line is seldom wise.

Also you said
"Although, even the biggest uplift was just a few seconds, ~27% faster, with the Adaptive Wide Angle filter — a task that requires ~30 seconds, so you’d probably briefly switch to another app while you wait anyway."
That should answer your own question. Because that is exactly what I do, "briefly switch to another app," and that process demands RAM. Minis can only be equipped with limited RAM.

Okay. Although, I find it difficult to believe 64 GB of RAM — and, yes, I know that’s shared with GPU — is notably limiting for most workflows. Unless you’re saying software such as Photoshop is intolerably inefficient.

After typing that I decided to look for some examples. Here’s one:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOS/comments/17k2xj3/photoshop_using_more_ram_than_system_m1_max

https://www.reddit.com/r/MacOS/comments/17k2xj3/comment/k75739b

It’s not the largest (canvas) but at 400 dpi and dozens of layers, it’s a sizable, complex project. Additionally, the user has ~2 GB of RAM in Web content, 3.6 GB used by a drawing app. The memory pressure is yellow but it’s also a Mac with 32 GB of RAM.

I don’t know if @JoeStrummer has yet looked at memory pressure amidst their workflow. Notwithstanding, am I assuming correctly you’d suggest the M2 Studio with more RAM?

So I am looking at either a Mac Mini M4 Pro with 24GB Ram and 512 storage.

Or...a used Mac Studio M2 Max with 32 GB Ram, which is priced at a little more then the new Mini M4 Pro

Currently leaning towards the Mini M4 Pro

?

 

[avro707]

Throwing money at really old hardware is seldom wise. Trying to do any kind of pro work on old hardware gets ...old

That was my reply and was intended to go with the paragraph after it that you missed. Extend the RAM on the old machine to try and keep it going long enough that a better new machine with a lot more RAM and power can be ordered and delivered.

The problem as a read it was that a new machine could be ordered but not available fast enough.

With Apple these days you have to order the best available in order to get a long working life out of it.

With my Mac Pro I ordered a mid spec machine first and upgraded, then got another one that was very high spec and they are both still fast.

 

[JoeStrummer]

Thanks for all the feedback!

My trusty old Mac Pro 5.1 is an amazing machine, one of the best things apple has ever made, but it crashed last week, and then again yesterday (PSU issue I think). And I have clients breathing down my neck. So I felt like I had to make a decision on a new machine.

I went with the (lightly) used Mac Studio M2 Max (12/30 core, 32GB ram, 512 storage). From a private seller, I haggled him down a bit so the Studio was actually a bit cheaper then the (brand new from the store) Mac Mini M4Pro (12/16 core, 24GB ram, 512 storage).

Think the Studio M2 is a good bargin. Took it to the store and they ran diagnostics on it and all 100%. Looks fresh and clean.

Chose the Studio ultimately because it has more RAM. Would ideally like a lot more RAM but in a tight spot time-wise and had to take what was available.

Excited to finally be running a modern up-to-date silicon chip Mac, looking forward to seeing how it improves my colour correction and retouching workflow,

Now I just need to figure out how I'm going to adapt to not having 4x internal 4TB harddrives

thanks again for all the reponses