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aiyaaabatt

macrumors 6502
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Aug 25, 2013
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What kind of temps are you guys getting? Feel free to share your system specs and what kind of temps you're seeing.

I've got the M4 Pro (14C) with 64GB ram and 1TB SSD. With an ambient temp of 23C, I'm getting around 39-40C idle, and 82C max temp (Die 1 is my hottest Die) when running Cinebench R23 CPU multicore (10 min). Using TG Pro to monitor temps.
 
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on your TG Pro, did you get to max fan speed during the test? On my m2 mini Pro 12 core, I found the best tgpro setting was on Automax. seems to keep things cooler without always maxing out the fan. when the fan is on max speed, can you hear it, I hardly hear my M2 Mini Pro at max 5000 rpm. I get about the same temp as you at idle
 
During Cinebench R23 CPU multicore test, using TG Pro (system fan settings) my max fan speed reached about 3150 RPM, and I can definitely hear it.
 
I got my Mac mini M4 (non-Pro) today and I'm considering returning it. I ran a re-encode (H.264 -> H.265, using the CPUs, not VideoToolbox) and the fan ramped up to about 2100 RPM (idle is 1000 RPM). after 10-15 minutes the CPUs started to throttle. max. clock speed of the P-cores is 4464 MHz. I saw them drop to approximately 3300 MHz at one point! in the end the clock settled at around 3800 MHz. I never saw this (CPU throttling or the fan ramping up) with Mac mini M1 or M2 (also non-Pro). they should've kept the design of Mac mini (and its cooling system) as it was.
 
Conebench is there to push your machine harder than you likely ever will. 83 Celsius is nothing compared to Intel 13790k, 13900k easily hitting 100 without liquid cooling…
 
I got my Mac mini M4 (non-Pro) today and I'm considering returning it. I ran a re-encode (H.264 -> H.265, using the CPUs, not VideoToolbox) and the fan ramped up to about 2100 RPM (idle is 1000 RPM). after 10-15 minutes the CPUs started to throttle. max. clock speed of the P-cores is 4464 MHz. I saw them drop to approximately 3300 MHz at one point! in the end the clock settled at around 3800 MHz. I never saw this (CPU throttling or the fan ramping up) with Mac mini M1 or M2 (also non-Pro). they should've kept the design of Mac mini (and its cooling system) as it was.

What are you ambient temps?
 
I got my Mac mini M4 (non-Pro) today and I'm considering returning it. I ran a re-encode (H.264 -> H.265, using the CPUs, not VideoToolbox) and the fan ramped up to about 2100 RPM (idle is 1000 RPM). after 10-15 minutes the CPUs started to throttle. max. clock speed of the P-cores is 4464 MHz. I saw them drop to approximately 3300 MHz at one point! in the end the clock settled at around 3800 MHz. I never saw this (CPU throttling or the fan ramping up) with Mac mini M1 or M2 (also non-Pro). they should've kept the design of Mac mini (and its cooling system) as it was.

Have you tested this under the low power mode? It would likely be slower, but I'm wondering how much. And if the fans ramp up at all.
 
I think the issue has something to do with the GPU and not the CPU on the SoC. If we take a look at the Cinebench test, the SoC is under 98% utilisation and tops at 90 C.

While World of Warcraft is at 55% utilisation but goes over 100 C, while Diablo 3 is at 47% and tops to 89 C

WoW temperatures are always over 100 C no matter if the resolution is 4K, 1440p or 1080p

Will try to see other games today
 
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Have you tested this under the low power mode? It would likely be slower, but I'm wondering how much. And if the fans ramp up at all.

I sure did! power efficiency in Low Power Mode is insane, the SoC consumes less than 7 Watts during HandBrake re-encode. here's the Geekbench score: https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/8799758
the fan stays at 1'000 RPM all the time.
 
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Today i got a suggestion from reedit, to cap fps in wow. So I did, and that made temperatures in WoW not go above 75 C.

For me personally, this resolved my issues with temperatures, since i dont have any problems in any other games or workloads.

Low power mode is trash, to be honest. the performance in every aspect is cut 80%. I would never use it
 
I sure did! power efficiency in Low Power Mode is insane, the SoC consumes less than 7 Watts during HandBrake re-encode. here's the Geekbench score: https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/8799758
the fan stays at 1'000 RPM all the time.

That's great, but how much slower is the handbrake re-encode? If it's not much, I think LPM could be an effective way of handling sustained activity while minimizing the fan noise.

BTW, it's odd that your single core score is effectively halved in LPM, while some others here have reported only ~15% loss. See here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/geekbench-post-em-up-how-fast-is-your-mini.2442821/
 
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That's great, but how much slower is the handbrake re-encode? If it's not much, I think LPM could be an effective way of handling sustained activity while minimizing the fan noise.

BTW, it's odd that your single core score is effectively halved in LPM, while some others here have reported only ~15% loss. See here: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/geekbench-post-em-up-how-fast-is-your-mini.2442821/

the CPU (M4) running in Low Power Mode delivers about 55% of the possible speed.

the scores posted are from M4 Pro Mac minis. mine's an M4 (non-Pro).
 
Since getting the M4 iStat Menus is only showing SSD temp, not CPU or GPU. Anyone else seeing that?

UPDATE: I see iStat Menus is up to version 7, paid upgrade on Apple Store. I installed it, showed all the sensors after I installed their helper app. All good, nice upgrade.
 
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Max Tech on YT did some thermal testing, and the CPU maxed out around 105 deg. C. It showed signs of throttling at this point, but not much.

I think we are in an era where maximum performance is not constant, but floats around some nominal value.

The latest AMD processors are thermal-limited to 100 deg. C and designed to run at the thermal limit rather than a clock speed limit. The "max clock" is 4.8 GHz, but you won't necessarily get that under sustained load.

I suspect Apple are probably doing something similar - 4.4 GHz "max clock" with the long-term SUSTAINED clock speed being a bit lower.

We are at a point with silicon in general where we are hitting physical limits. Until we can find better solutions to thermal management, or find some way to reduce heat generation, this will be the new behavior of high-end processors for the forseeable future.

It's not bad; just something we aren't used to.

Best way to think about it is burst performance, and sustained performance. We seem able to get burst performance for around 10-15 minutes before throttling occurs. Form factor matters here too, and the Mini seems the best so far. I expect this to improve even further with the Studio.

I'm actually debating if there are ways to improve the thermals without modifying the case, such as raising the computer off the desk on a cold plate, and helping the seperation of the exhaust air from the inlet air with baffles, to help prevent warm-air recirculation.

The front ~3/4 of the circumference appears to be the inlet air, with the exhaust air coming out the back ~1/4. That means in a typical home office, warm air gets blasted at the wall, and reflected back towards the inlet.
 
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The latest AMD processors are thermal-limited to 100 deg. C and designed to run at the thermal limit rather than a clock speed limit.
This has been the case for over a decade.
Until we can find better solutions to thermal management
I heard the M4 maxes out at something like 45W? The old mini could handle about 65W while staying silent. This isn't some sort of engineering limit, it's Apple going straight back to being obsessed over making the smallest possible computer. I'm sure the old form factor could have handled all the heat from the M4 without making noise. But no. Straight back to the awful Intel mini experience of immediate throttling and noisy fan.
 
This isn't some sort of engineering limit, it's Apple going straight back to being obsessed over making the smallest possible computer. I'm sure the old form factor could have handled all the heat from the M4 without making noise. But no. Straight back to the awful Intel mini experience of immediate throttling and noisy fan.

Yep -- exactly what I expected when I saw the "new! redesigned! super small!" rumors

No idea why people were excited about making an already really small computer ... even smaller
 
here is my normal tem of my M4 pro Mac mini 14c/20g 48gb um - with some web tabs open like YouTube and Amazon. bluetooth speaker, capture card, mic, external SSD are running. a tiny bit warm on top of the box. the number is a bit higher than advertised, but acceptable.
 

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This has been the case for over a decade.

I heard the M4 maxes out at something like 45W? The old mini could handle about 65W while staying silent. This isn't some sort of engineering limit, it's Apple going straight back to being obsessed over making the smallest possible computer. I'm sure the old form factor could have handled all the heat from the M4 without making noise. But no. Straight back to the awful Intel mini experience of immediate throttling and noisy fan.
If that is true for the mini I just ordered, it is going right back.
 
If that is true for the mini I just ordered, it is going right back.
well, u do got 15 days return rules. that what we love about apple, test it u self bring ur old projects you worked before, run it again monitor the temperature. if u work won't stress it out to over throttling. then it perfect for you. those bench marks test are design to purposely squeeze out the most of the machine. However, your work may or may not even reach that far. good luck. post ur results here if u feel generous. I'm curious. thx
 
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well, u do got 15 days return rules. that what we love about apple, test it u self bring ur old projects you worked before, run it again monitor the temperature. if u work won't stress it out to over throttling. then it perfect for you. those bench marks test are design to purposely squeeze out the most of the machine. However, your work may or may not even reach that far. good luck. post ur results here if u feel generous. I'm curious. thx
I am a long term Windows user. But I also like Mac and some of the really cool things it can do. But silence has been a thing with me for a LONG time. I remember hanging out for days at silentpcreview.com Dating myself there, although it may still be around, not sure. Anyways, I will move over my 250GB of files, get it setup. Run Cinebench. and see how it goes. I imagine that my workflow would never get near Cinebench, but good to have a baseline comparison.

I got a fairly expensive model, around $1500. I wanted the same specs as I am used to on my sig machine. 32GB and 1TB. If it is not up to my silence standards, then I have no choice but to return it. I am hoping that it wildly exceeds my rather light demands and becomes my main desktop. I'll throw Win11 on a Parallels VPS and see how it goes :) I am happy to report my findings here. FYI, my sig machine is the quietest computer I have ever known. Huge kudos to Intel!
 
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