Macbook for basic film editing/music making ok?

[ytaimaishu]

I was curious if Final Cut Studio/Express and or Logic Studio/Express would work on a fully new upgraded macbook (aka backlit 2.4, 4gb, 320 etc, etc...) I'm just an amateur in these areas and looking for a hobby really. I would go pro but THAT much money IS an issue. It would be even better if I could do all this in the base model, however I can afford the backlit.

I'm new to this whole apple thing and may end up getting an iMac becuase it's got more power for less $$, but if I don't need it what's the bloody point? I wouldn't mind having portability as an option and I could always get a monitor. Anyway your thoughts are welcomed.

P.S. I apologize if this has been asked before but I'm too impatient to read through all these posts...this place is flooded...I'm not helping I know...

 

[Tosser]

I was curious if Final Cut Studio/Express and or Logic Studio/Express would work on a fully new upgraded macbook (aka backlit 2.4, 4gb, 320 etc, etc...) I'm just an amateur in these areas and looking for a hobby really. I would go pro but THAT much money IS an issue. It would be even better if I could do all this in the base model, however I can afford the backlit.

I'm new to this whole apple thing and may end up getting an iMac becuase it's got more power for less $$, but if I don't need it what's the bloody point? I wouldn't mind having portability as an option and I could always get a monitor. Anyway your thoughts are welcomed.

P.S. I apologize if this has been asked before but I'm too impatient to read through all these posts...this place is flooded...I'm not helping I know...

Skim through some of the pages in this thread:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/583377/

The thing is, no it propably won't be good enough –*even as a hobbyist machine. However, the white MacBook will be a good choice, or the previous generation MBP.

 

[EricNau]

A MacBook Pro is "only" $150 more than a fully loaded MacBook. I'd spend the extra money. I know you're probably stretching your budget enough as it is by buying a MacBook plus the software you mentioned, but when you get into Final Cut, you'll be much happier with dedicated graphics.

 

[Tosser]

A MacBook Pro is "only" $150 more than a fully loaded MacBook. I'd spend the extra money. I know you're probably stretching your budget enough as it is by buying a MacBook plus the software you mentioned, but when you get into Final Cut, you'll be much happier with dedicated graphics.

And when he purchase Final Cut he will be locked into taking whatever Apple chooses to sell.

The best buys right now for his use is a white Macbook or a refurb MBP. The new "MBP" is using an inferior FW chipset, rendering it close to useless for audio and video.

 

[ytaimaishu]

'And when he purchase Final Cut he will be locked into taking whatever Apple chooses to sell."

Wha?

You lost me sorry...

Just a reminder this is only a hobby you still think I should "go pro"??

 

[EricNau]

You can always add more RAM later (when you need it), at a cheaper price.

 

[Tosser]

So your saying this becuase of no firewire? I'm not trying to insult your intellegince or anything and I may be way off...but couldn't I just get a camera w/ a usb? Is this the only reason? I don't know much about usb and firewire honestly...I don't know could/anybody expand on why I would need this even if I am just messing around? What about logic express and all that jazz?

Wow I'm chock full of "?'s"

Well, many video cameras can only transfer the video over FW, even it has both types.

You also stated that you wanted to do audio, and real time audio (as in using audio interfaces) sucks with USB. Further, many audio interfaces doesn't even have USB, so you will need FW. To add insult to injury, the latest MBP's fw chipset is of the Agere-variety (as opposed to the superiour Texas Instruments chipset) and several audio interfaces doesn't work at all with the agere.

Apple has gone down the mainstream lowest-common-denominator route with their recent offerings, and since you want to do something other than connect your iPhone, iPod and at most a digital point & shoot, you will be in trouble if your hobby gains just a little momentum.

Buying Apple apps for this will only tie you down even more, and when you're there, you're locked down. It has taken me more than a year to migrate away from Apple apps for these things, and from the looks of their recent offerings it was just about time.

My advice is to go for cross-platform apps. Whatever it takes. The learning curve of video and audio apps are steep, as is the price. The (good) hardware (and software) is more expensive than the computer and you don't want to be tied in to something that will limit your choices of what really matters: The hardware you use to collect what you will be working with on your computers – be it interfaces, software, video recorders, audio recorders or anything else.

Edit/add:

'And when he purchase Final Cut he will be locked into taking whatever Apple chooses to sell."

Wha?

You lost me sorry...

Just a reminder this is only a hobby you still think I should "go pro"??

No, I don't think you should go pro – especially not the new glossy MB "pro". I think you should either buy the PREVIOUS generation MBP, or (even better) the WHITE MacBook.

I explained the tie-in with Final Cut in my above post.

 

[ytaimaishu]

Ya sorry Im' a bit slow. The white one eh??

Out of curiosity, why would you say that?

 

[Tosser]

Ya sorry Im' a bit slow. The white one eh??

Nah, you're not slow at all. You're just new to the whole scene, not to mention (from th sound of it) new to audio and video as well. Yup, the white one.

Many of us working with audio and video are choosing to go PC next. Just so you know

Anyway, yup, the white one is the best of the lot as it stands. It's a shame - in the most original sense of the word.

 

[ytaimaishu]

Ya brand new just, like I said want a new hobby. I play music but never actually recorded it or anything. Plus I've always made videos but never been able to edit. PC for all that? I thought Apple was the place to go for that kind of stuff? Honestly the main reason I'm getting a mac!

 

[Tosser]

Ya brand new just, like I said want a new hobby. I play music but never actually recorded it or anything. Plus I've always made videos but never been able to edit. PC for all that? I thought Apple was the place to go for that kind of stuff? Honestly the main reason I'm getting a mac!

Well, those days are over. And from the looks of it they're not going to be coming back. I will miss OS X, though, so I will make my next computer (a Thinkpad) a dual boot hackintosh, so I can revert back for a little while in the period just after moving across.

You should certainly not buy a Mac because it's supposed to be ""mean" audio and video machines". They haven't been for quite a while, but they just crossed the line into "useless" (if we ignore the white MB).

 

[robanga]

Having done both from a "hobbyist" and very light "work" standpoint recently and having done both on PC's running either XP or Vista, and Macs, it would be an easy choice for me.

The integration of iMovie, Garage Band etc on a Mac has no equals on the PC side, IMHO. Editing both on PC, while certainly achievable, it an excercise in strangeness and frustration.

The MB should work fine, just make sure your video camera does not need firewire or you wil need to go to either the lowest end white plastic MB or the MBP series.

 

[ibosie]

For a portable device I reckon MB would make a good effort on the editing side for both FC and Logic. AVCHD, being USB, on consumer cameras for instance will be fine importing into FC. The best film/audio gear will use firewire though, perhaps you have an alternative machine when you need that. Don't waste your money on USB audio interface gear unless it's cheap as chips and you expect it to perform as such - no matter what you spend on a USB device, it can not deliver data at a constant speed which you will need for real-time audio recording.

 

[ThomasJL]

The new "MBP" is using an inferior FW chipset, rendering it close to useless for audio and video.

Interesting. Could someone please explain the difference between the FireWire chipset in the new MBP in comparison to the old MBP and plastic MB?

 

[Tosser]

Interesting. Could someone please explain the difference between the FireWire chipset in the new MBP in comparison to the old MBP and plastic MB?

Not to dismiss you but the short story is that with some things it just doesn't work, with others it's just buggy, loose information and such nice things. It's a hit'n'miss what the Agere works with.
Do a search on TI firewire chipset, Agere FW chipset, and Lucent (it's the Agere) chipset. You'll be amazed at how shoddy it is

Edit/add:

Here's an old thread from the time they introduced the Lucent Agere the first time (they ditched it and reintroduced it this time around):

http://www.gearspace.com/board/1728546-post6.html

I forgot to mention. The TI (as in Texas Instruments) chipset simply works as it's supposed to.

 

[ThomasJL]

Not to dismiss you but the short story is that with some things it just doesn't work, with others it's just buggy, loose information and such nice things. It's a hit'n'miss what the Agere works with.
Do a search on TI firewire chipset, Agere FW chipset, and Lucent (it's the Agere) chipset. You'll be amazed at how shoddy it is

Edit/add:

Here's an old thread from the time they introduced the Lucent Agere the first time (they ditched it and reintroduced it this time around):

http://www.gearspace.com/board/1728546-post6.html

I forgot to mention. The TI (as in Texas Instruments) chipset simply works as it's supposed to.

Thank you very much for the information, Tosser. This is a shame.

If Apple continues this trend, many will have no choice but to switch to Windows. For video and audio editing, which version of Windows do you recommend: XP or Vista?

What are your reasons for choosing a Thinkpad over laptops from other manufacturers?

 

[Tosser]

Thank you very much for the information, Tosser. This is a shame.

If Apple continues this trend, many will have no choice but to switch to Windows. For video and audio editing, which version of Windows do you recommend: XP or Vista?

What are your reasons for choosing a Thinkpad over laptops from other manufacturers?

No problem, Thomas.
I will go with the thinkpads because unlike Apple's offerings the quality isn't dwindling. Thinkpads –even after IBM sold the PC division to Lenovo - are still top notch. In other words: They're at least as good as Apple used to be (I have been a Mac user since 1988/1989).
I know that the top Dells are also good. And there are some other brand models out there that are good and certainly would be an upgrade from the MBP and Apple. But Thinkpad is the one for me.

I will go with XP. There's a few simple reasons for this: It's less taxing on the system than Vista, I have a fear of a lack of drivers, and, finally, I really dislike all the warnings and whatnots in Vista and don't mind the lack of eyecandy of XP in comparison.

I will propably buy the computer with Vista, though, and get some XP discs from Amazon or ebay or something. Just to give myself the choice. But XP is proven, and I need that piece of mind in order to do work on it.

 

[badpup]

My two pence worth

Portability is great, but the extra screen space on the iMac makes editing much easier in my opinion. Its nice to be able to spread the timeline out BIG.

Firewire is important (I wouldn't like to be without it), although many new semi-pro and pro level cameras use tapeless storage which negates the need for FW.

I recently finished editing my MA film on a 20" 2.4ghz alu iMac. Machine performed beautifully on DVCPRO-HD (720PN) material.. also I'd say better than basic white macbook graphics (X3100) are very useful if you plan on using anything like Motion further down the line.

Having said that in terms of performance any of the current Macbooks, and even the last generation, are upto HDV or DVPROHD editing - however some people are going to swear blind you need a macpro (which maybe you do for complicated stuff).

 

[kamm]

A MacBook Pro is "only" $150 more than a fully loaded MacBook. I'd spend the extra money. I know you're probably stretching your budget enough as it is by buying a MacBook plus the software you mentioned, but when you get into Final Cut, you'll be much happier with dedicated graphics.

This is complete nonsense.

You can get a barely used latest Blackbook for HALF the price of a new MBP config.

Thinkpads –even after IBM sold the PC division to Lenovo - are still top notch.

LOL. Perhaps they are but any mid-priced Vaio usually mops the floor when it comes to features and versatility with the overpriced Thinkpads (did you say 1024x768 for $1k even lat year? Yes, this is what my accountant bought...)
Sony prices aren't the cheapest either when you go for lightweight and powerful but you won't get anywhere else such features (dual VGA, TPM w/ biometric, webcam, LED etc) in 3.xx lbs (fiber casing, mind you.)

Portability is great, but the extra screen space on the iMac makes editing much easier in my opinion. Its nice to be able to spread the timeline out BIG.

Firewire is important (I wouldn't like to be without it), although many new semi-pro and pro level cameras use tapeless storage which negates the need for FW.

I recently finished editing my MA film on a 20" 2.4ghz alu iMac. Machine performed beautifully on DVCPRO-HD (720PN) material.. also I'd say better than basic white macbook graphics (X3100) are very useful if you plan on using anything like Motion further down the line.

People way too often overestimate the portability issue. Most people I know always say they a laptop because what if they move, they want to take it to somewhere - and after a year or so, when their laptop lost 50-75% of its original value, I ask them how many times they took it even just outside of their homes (forget how many times you moved in a year, LOL) and there's always this grim face and the admission that I was right, they should get a nice compact desktop or all-in-one next time for half the price...

It's important: if you don't really-really-really[/i] need to take it somewhere else - remember, you can pocket a little HDD or USB key for taking your project to your buddy - then I would rather suggest to go with an iMac, I agree. It might cost the same as a laptop + 24" display but comes with a lto better graphics and takes up a lot less space.

Having said that in terms of performance any of the current Macbooks, and even the last generation, are upto HDV or DVPROHD editing - however some people are going to swear blind you need a macpro (which maybe you do for complicated stuff).

Exactly. If money is the limit then he should just get a SR Blackbook (gen.4,1) and fill it up with memory and at a later point he can add a decent 22-24" external monitor for home for $300-400 and he's good to go for years.

 

[Tosser]

LOL. Perhaps they are but any mid-priced Vaio usually mops the floor when it comes to features and versatility with the overpriced Thinkpads (did you say 1024x768 for $1k even lat year? Yes, this is what my accountant bought...)

I don't buy Sony products for a reason.
I am saying: 13" matte screen with a resolution of 1440X900.
Your accountant must have good taste and know what quality is.
How can you be a mac user and consider thinkpads to be over priced? I'm serious – you have got to be kidding me.

Sony prices aren't the cheapest either when you go for lightweight and powerful but you won't get anywhere else such features (dual VGA, TPM w/ biometric, webcam, LED etc) in 3.xx lbs (fiber casing, mind you.)

LOL, I don't care if Sony's prices aren't the cheapest. Really, I don't. I care about quality and functionality. Casing and strength wise, the Thinkpads are superiour to the Vaios.
A couple of things I don't care about: Web cam (some of the Thinkpads have them, though –*bummer), finger scanner and that sort of thing. They're gimmicks and they're certainly not something that would sway me one way or the other.

 

[kamm]

I don't buy Sony products for a reason.
I am saying: 13" matte screen with a resolution of 1440X900.
Your accountant must have good taste and know what quality is.

Hardly. Someone else picked it for him.

How can you be a mac user and consider thinkpads to be over priced? I'm serious – you have got to be kidding me.

Perhaps because I'm not an Apple or IBM fan but a chief IT guy for more than a decade and I can tell the difference between overpriced-underfeatured and expensive-but-maxed-out?
OK, I'm a bit streching here, latest Thinkpads are not bad at all, it's just they always lack a feature or two compared to Sony ones in their category.

Older Macbooks were always very competitively priced and he stated he's on a short budget, I don't really understand what are you talking about with this overpriced stuff... yes, there are cheap Thinpads but they lack a lot of things

LOL, I don't care if Sony's prices aren't the cheapest. Really, I don't. I care about quality and functionality. Casing and strength wise, the Thinkpads are superiour to the Vaios.

A couple of things I don't care about: Web cam (some of the Thinkpads have them, though –*bummer), finger scanner and that sort of thing. They're gimmicks and they're certainly not something that would sway me one way or the other.

You're certainly not a business nor a professional user, that's for sure - fingerprint-reader is the easiest login, let alone the peace of mind in case of your laptop gets stolen or lost (assuming you've turned on encryption.)
FYI: most Thinkpads come with fingerprint-reader for long time...

Look, he's looking for a good, versatile laptop which willl be his primary machine and also used for video projects. Why the hell are you pushing some steel-cased, heavy unit when he can just get a Blackbook for less than $1k and run both XP and OS X natively?
Frankly, I think this is his best option, to get some cheap Apple stuff and run the two OS alongside as needed.

PS: I *hate* Sony, let me make it clear so I can certainly understand your staunch anti-Sony stance - I'd only buy Vaio, nothing else.

 

[Tosser]

Hardly. Someone else picked it for him.

Lucky him.

Perhaps because I'm not an Apple or IBM fan but a chief IT guy for more than a decade and I can tell the difference between overpriced-underfeatured and expensive-but-maxed-out?

You can? Is that why you fable about the Vaios having a fiber casing as if that is somehow superior to what the Thinkpads have?

Older Macbooks were always very competitively priced and he stated he's on a short budget, I don't really understand what are you talking about with this overpriced stuff... yes, there are cheap Thinpads but they lack a lot of things

Your argument was entirely AGAINST thinkpads, and while you were stating that argument, you mentioned Vaios not being cheap.

You're certainly not a business nor a professional user, that's for sure - fingerprint-reader is the easiest login, let alone the peace of mind in case of your laptop gets stolen or lost (assuming you've turned on encryption.)

I never said I was a "business" user. Have you even taken a look at what sort of thread this is? Apparently not.
Secondly, your assumption that I'm not a professional is utterly ignorant. I work with audio for the radio most of the time, do stories for web and print. And at least 80 percent of my work is done away from a desk. And when I need a desk, most likely I won't be using my own – be it at work or at home.

I prefer passwords as I often work outdoors – summer and winter. I also built boats in my spare time, so my fingerprints aren't always pristine. Be careful with your assumptions – you may be an IT-tech, but there is more to being "pro" than working at an office and go to meetings by plane.

FYI: most Thinkpads come with fingerprint-reader for long time...

Propably – as I said, I don't consider it a plus, but it will not sway me one way or the other. I consider it a superfluous gimmick. Oh, and if it does get stolen, it's gone. No amount of fingerprint scanners will make it less stolen or safer than a password.

Look, he's looking for a good, versatile laptop which willl be his primary machine and also used for video projects. Why the hell are you pushing some steel-cased, heavy unit when he can just get a Blackbook for less than $1k and run both XP and OS X natively?

Yes, hence why I recommended the OP a whitebook. If you notice, the person I talked about the Thinkpads with was not the OP. Nor was I actually recommending him a Thinkpad. There ARE other choices out there. In fact, if I wasn't a dane, but a native english speaker I could choose between even more dedicated portable audio workstations.

Frankly, I think this is his best option, to get some cheap Apple stuff and run the two OS alongside as needed.

Yup. The whitebook (which he can buy direct from Apple) or a blackbook, as you recommend. For the OP.

 

[ThomasJL]

I will go with XP. There's a few simple reasons for this: It's less taxing on the system than Vista, I have a fear of a lack of drivers, and, finally, I really dislike all the warnings and whatnots in Vista and don't mind the lack of eyecandy of XP in comparison.

I agree with you on those points. Two questions:

1. Which version of XP will you get: Home or Professional? What is your reasoning behind selecting one over the other?

2. Which model of Thinkpad are you thinking about getting?

Thanks again for your time and help.

 

[Tosser]

I agree with you on those points. Two questions:

1. Which version of XP will you get: Home or Professional? What is your reasoning behind selecting one over the other?

2. Which model of Thinkpad are you thinking about getting?

Thanks again for your time and help.

I will go with professional – even though I hate that monicker, lol - because of the User management (it seems to resemble the way OS X works –*propably not technically, but still). Another important thing to me (cause of Dalet) is that if any problems should arise, it supports remote desktop.
There are other things, such as the apparent removal of the automated back up system in the home version, and then of course, there's encryption in the pro-version. Anyway, it just seems like an overall good idea to get it all, and not some crippled version.

Very important (to me at least) is the multi language support offered in the pro version. I'm danish, and I tend to prefer a danish OS – even if many of my apps aren't localised.

2) I'm not quite sure yet. As much as I'd love to go with the X300, it is not really what I had in mind. Most likely I would go for a 14" T-series, if I had to buy today. I don't, though, so when this MBP dies completely (it's going) I am making the final step.

 

[badpup]

Just reading through this again... As for being stuck with apple products.. and Apple essentially giving up the pro arena.. I half agree (considering their recent product releases), but thats also kinda contentious...

I mean I'm not sure about audio professionals... but for video work many people would still rather use final cut or avid on OS X.. instead of being stuck with avid only on xp.

In my opinion, if you go with a mac, you get an out of the box machine that can run both the major video editing platforms.

Perhaps our replies are getting away from the original question

I am however feeling a huge flaming coming on from above... lol