Macbook Pro for Software Development

[deliriumxy]

I was active on these forums last year obsessively researching the new Macbook Pros. I still have yet to upgrade from my late 2011 13" Macbook Pro.

I work in software development, and currently the compile and upload to app store times are incredibly sluggish on my machine. It's about time for an upgrade.

To minimize compile time, I believe a quad core would be best, and I really like the bigger screen on the 15" compared to the 13". Next purchase will be a 15"... but oh-my-God the price.

Which 15" should I get?

Does the lowest end 15" MBP (with the 2015 keyboard and body) have an outdated chipset? What is it running? Did they update to Kaby Lake too?

Anyway... need some advice. Seems like there are a lot of keyboard issues with the newer models. A coworker has also had to take his in a few times. $3500 to $4000 is, in my opinion, an obscene amount to spend on a computer with internals that are on par with Windows computers selling for $1000 to $1500.

Nevertheless, I require a Macbook for XCode... so... I'm stuck

Buy the 2015 model or a refurbished version of it... or go with one of the newer ones? Thanks.

 

[leman]

Does the lowest end 15" MBP (with the 2015 keyboard and body) have an outdated chipset? What is it running? Did they update to Kaby Lake too?

Its still the 2015 spec. Wouldn't buy it.

Which 15" should I get?

Frankly, I'd wait for the next update at this point.

Anyway... need some advice. Seems like there are a lot of keyboard issues with the newer models. A coworker has also had to take his in a few times.

There are a lot of reports of keyboard issues, but precise quantification is difficult. For instance, we haven't any problems with any of other machines, and we probably have about 20 of them by now. Still, its something to be wary of. Apple will of course repair/replace any defective units, but its still hassle (and time).

$3500 to $4000 is, in my opinion, an obscene amount to spend on a computer with internals that are on par with Windows computers selling for $1000 to $1500.

You won't find any Windows computer with comparable internals for $1500. More like $2000 for multimedia laptops and $2500+ for professional laptops (the bracket the MBP is in). For instance, Dell precision with comparable specs is $2600, which is just south of Apple's $2800 — and the MacBook comes with a better GPU, faster WiFi, better real-world battery life and more expensive thunderbolt controllers. And sure, you can find a gaming laptop with comparable overall performance for $1500, but then you can throw everything else (portability, screen quality, battery, build quality) out of the window. Difficult to build a quality machine for that kind of money if prices of the primary components (CPU/GPU/RAM) approach $1000.

 

[csurfr]

I was active on these forums last year obsessively researching the new Macbook Pros. I still have yet to upgrade from my late 2011 13" Macbook Pro.

I work in software development, and currently the compile and upload to app store times are incredibly sluggish on my machine. It's about time for an upgrade.

To minimize compile time, I believe a quad core would be best, and I really like the bigger screen on the 15" compared to the 13". Next purchase will be a 15"... but oh-my-God the price.

Which 15" should I get?

Does the lowest end 15" MBP (with the 2015 keyboard and body) have an outdated chipset? What is it running? Did they update to Kaby Lake too?

Anyway... need some advice. Seems like there are a lot of keyboard issues with the newer models. A coworker has also had to take his in a few times. $3500 to $4000 is, in my opinion, an obscene amount to spend on a computer with internals that are on par with Windows computers selling for $1000 to $1500.

Nevertheless, I require a Macbook for XCode... so... I'm stuck

Buy the 2015 model or a refurbished version of it... or go with one of the newer ones? Thanks.

I have a base model 2017 15" and have run Xcode, Visual Studio, IntelliJ, Atom, etc on it without issue. I had some keyboard issues with the 2016 MacBook Pro, but the 2017 has been essentially flawless. Figure at this point to be 6-8 months away from a refresh IF they update these models yearly.

I personally wouldn't purchase the 2015 model at this point unless you absolutely need all of the ports. It does in fact have processor that is three generations old at this point (Haswell vs. Kaby Lake (most current) in the 2017).

I have one USB-C to USB-A adapter and I have used it once to transfer files to a friends' flash drive. Other than that, I have the USB-C to lightning, a Samsung T3 SSD, and picked up a USB-C to Micro-Whatever my WD External HDD has on the other end of it.

 

[deliriumxy]

I have a base model 2017 15" and have run Xcode, Visual Studio, IntelliJ, Atom, etc on it without issue. I had some keyboard issues with the 2016 MacBook Pro, but the 2017 has been essentially flawless. Figure at this point to be 6-8 months away from a refresh IF they update these models yearly.

I personally wouldn't purchase the 2015 model at this point unless you absolutely need all of the ports. It does in fact have processor that is three generations old at this point (Haswell vs. Kaby Lake (most current) in the 2017).

I have one USB-C to USB-A adapter and I have used it once to transfer files to a friends' flash drive. Other than that, I have the USB-C to lightning, a Samsung T3 SSD, and picked up a USB-C to Micro-Whatever my WD External HDD has on the other end of it.

As someone who has experience with both 2016 and 2017 15" models -- would it be worth getting the 2016 refurb?

My reasoning:

- save around $460 CAD
- spend overall less, so any future repairs, e.g. to keyboard, when Apple Care expires would (subjectively) hurt less
- about the same power as 2017 model, only one gen below in terms of cpu (skylake vs kaby lake)

 

[Samuelsan2001]

As someone who has experience with both 2016 and 2017 15" models -- would it be worth getting the 2016 refurb?

My reasoning:

- save around $460 CAD
- spend overall less, so any future repairs, e.g. to keyboard, when Apple Care expires would (subjectively) hurt less
- about the same power as 2017 model, only one gen below in terms of cpu (skylake vs kaby lake)

Refurbs from apple are as new with the same warranty options so why not.

 

[Hater]

If you need a workstation, many people have relegated to running MacOS of HP/Lenovo Xeon based laptops.

 

[NoBoMac]

^^^^No, imo. I would not use Hackintosh for my livelihood: machine goes poof and now you have trouble.

As a former Hackintosh owner, liked my setup on that, however, it was a "fragile" machine. Had to be very precise regarding OS upgrades. And each new OS version could break some functionality.

ADD: not to mention the additional hassle trying to get warranty/assistance, when needed, on this type of setup.

 

[csurfr]

As someone who has experience with both 2016 and 2017 15" models -- would it be worth getting the 2016 refurb?

My reasoning:

- save around $460 CAD
- spend overall less, so any future repairs, e.g. to keyboard, when Apple Care expires would (subjectively) hurt less
- about the same power as 2017 model, only one gen below in terms of cpu (skylake vs kaby lake)

This is certainly a viable option. From what I have read on the forum here, some have reported their 2016s have had the keyboards replaced with the 2017 version (noticeable due to the new keycaps on command and option).

They are supposedly the exact same keyboard other than that, so I can’t explain why my 2016s had issues and my 2017 does not.

As noted above, the refurb does have the same warranty, and you’d also be eligible to purchase AppleCare or AppleCare+.

 

[eddjedi]

Although I haven't experienced any of the keyboard or overheating etc issues reported by others personally, I do have peace of mind with Apple Care. I would definitely recommend 2016 model + Apple Care over 2017 without if the price is the same. I usually skip "insurance" on most things, but not a $3000 laptop with zero repairability.

 

[robvas]

I was active on these forums last year obsessively researching the new Macbook Pros. I still have yet to upgrade from my late 2011 13" Macbook Pro.

I work in software development, and currently the compile and upload to app store times are incredibly sluggish on my machine.

How much RAM do you have? Are you still at the factory 4GB?

Have you thought about upgrading to 16GB (or at least 8GB) and an SSD? That will really make things fly.

 

[deliriumxy]

How much RAM do you have? Are you still at the factory 4GB?

Have you thought about upgrading to 16GB (or at least 8GB) and an SSD? That will really make things fly.

I'm still using the 4gb ram, but I did upgrade to an SSD a year ago and that was a significant improvement.

Not sure if upgrading ram to 8 gb would have significant impact. Generally would just like a nicer machine as well.

 

[robvas]

Look at Activity Monitor and check your memory usage. I can say for sure that 4GB is not enough, the question is 16GB or 8GB. You are crippled with 4GB

 

[deliriumxy]

Look at Activity Monitor and check your memory usage. I can say for sure that 4GB is not enough, the question is 16GB or 8GB. You are crippled with 4GB

Yeah, more RAM wouldn't hurt. But the bottleneck is processing power, I believe.

 

[robvas]

I would beg to differ
Fastest CPU in the world isn't going to help you when you have the bare minimum RAM.

8GB is very cheap. Open activity monitor on the memory tab and run your build and take a screenshot of how much memory and swap you use.

 

[deliriumxy]

I would beg to differ
Fastest CPU in the world isn't going to help you when you have the bare minimum RAM.

8GB is very cheap. Open activity monitor on the memory tab and run your build and take a screenshot of how much memory and swap you use.

A memory upgrade would be fairly cheap -- around $70 on Amazon.ca

could improve performance... maybe i'll just do that... and wait for the refresh in 2018... save my pennies till then

 

[PBG4 Dude]

A memory upgrade would be fairly cheap -- around $70 on Amazon.ca

could improve performance... maybe i'll just do that... and wait for the refresh in 2018... save my pennies till then

If you’re always green in RAM pressure in Activity Monitor, there is no reason for more RAM.

I developed for 5 years on an MBA with 4GB RAM and never had RAM issues. You just need to check Activity Monitor while running everything you need to see if you’re running out of RAM. Extra unused RAM isn’t going to make your system more responsive.

 

[pallymore]

I was active on these forums last year obsessively researching the new Macbook Pros. I still have yet to upgrade from my late 2011 13" Macbook Pro.

I work in software development, and currently the compile and upload to app store times are incredibly sluggish on my machine. It's about time for an upgrade.

To minimize compile time, I believe a quad core would be best, and I really like the bigger screen on the 15" compared to the 13". Next purchase will be a 15"... but oh-my-God the price.

Which 15" should I get?

Does the lowest end 15" MBP (with the 2015 keyboard and body) have an outdated chipset? What is it running? Did they update to Kaby Lake too?

Anyway... need some advice. Seems like there are a lot of keyboard issues with the newer models. A coworker has also had to take his in a few times. $3500 to $4000 is, in my opinion, an obscene amount to spend on a computer with internals that are on par with Windows computers selling for $1000 to $1500.

Nevertheless, I require a Macbook for XCode... so... I'm stuck

Buy the 2015 model or a refurbished version of it... or go with one of the newer ones? Thanks.

Software dev here.

* get the latest 15in w/ TB - no matter if you like the TB or not. The non-TB version's internals are already outdated.
* Get 16G ram. skip the CPU upgrade if you need to save cash.
* The keyboard takes a long time to get use to. I still hate it but I use my mechanical keyboard when in office & at home so not a big deal for me. Might be a different story if you travel a lot.
* The keyboard issue seems to be fixed in the 2017 version - I haven't experience any with mine at least.

Yes it is expensive...it is an investment - make the best use of it.
[doublepost=1510324224][/doublepost]

If you’re always green in RAM pressure in Activity Monitor, there is no reason for more RAM.

I developed for 5 years on an MBA with 4GB RAM and never had RAM issues. You just need to check Activity Monitor while running everything you need to see if you’re running out of RAM. Extra unused RAM isn’t going to make your system more responsive.

Your development job might be very different from others.
I've been using 8GB RAM for the past 4 years and I constantly had RAM issues.
This year I finally upgraded to 16GB and it makes a huge difference for me.

 

[Hanson Eigilson]

Which 15" should I get?

Does the lowest end 15" MBP (with the 2015 keyboard and body) have an outdated chipset? What is it running? Did they update to Kaby Lake too?

in answer to your question i do not think that the 2015 mbp15" has an outdated chipset compared to other macbooks, but if you look at windows laptops the performance difference seems dramatic unless size is a big factor.

I work as a developer too and i have to figure out which macbook pro 15" to order for monday, and i dread telling my boss i want him to pay that kind of money for the 2-3 years old tech in the old style mbp, but i dread actually having to work on the new style one just as much. I cannot remember feeling like this before a hardware upgrade before,it seems impossible to talk with co-workers about it and i have basically just pushed out mbp upgrade needs for the last 1.5 years to avoid the issue.

please post them if you find good benchmark comparisons

 

[PBG4 Dude]

Your development job might be very different from others.
I've been using 8GB RAM for the past 4 years and I constantly had RAM issues.
This year I finally upgraded to 16GB and it makes a huge difference for me.

That’s why, in my post that you quoted, I said, “You just need to check Activity Monitor while running everything you need to see if you’re running out of RAM. Extra unused RAM isn’t going to make your system more responsive.”

 

[/V\acpower]

If you’re always green in RAM pressure in Activity Monitor, there is no reason for more RAM.

I developed for 5 years on an MBA with 4GB RAM and never had RAM issues. You just need to check Activity Monitor while running everything you need to see if you’re running out of RAM. Extra unused RAM isn’t going to make your system more responsive.

I have 8 GB on my 2016 MBP (13'). While it is usually true that I am in the green for everyday usage (and using Pages, Keynote, etc.), however when I started to play with XCode and Swift (and all the iOS simulators), I very frequently end up with yellow pressure and a significant amount of swap.

While the machine was perfectly usable to do that, I assume that more ram would make a difference.

 

[D.T.]

If you can score a really killer deal on a 2015 15" model, specifically the 2.5GHz with the dGPU (370X), it's still plenty stout for development chores (and it has some perks like a better KB, potentially other [user specific] benefits like an SD slot, physical F-keys, etc.)

If you're looking to save money, there's no question about going refurb, it's basically a new machine, full warranty, all the usual AC options.

Since you're talking XCode - and I'd think, possibly, other coding needs like backend APIs[?] - you don't need a ton of GPU power, so a '16 model with the base 450 dGPU isn't a bad price, there's a current refurb model available: 2.6/16/256 with the 2GB 450 GPU is $1849 (free shipping). 1st gen new style KB, but a nice discount, and you can add AC and have the machine covered through 2020.

I use my '15 for all my personal computing, all my non-Windows specific code work: web, native mobile (iOS/Android), some AR/VR work, CV, working on some ML for a specific project - pretty much anything Swift/Obj-C/Java/Python/Ruby/C++ I'm on the MBP, usually in terminal I also occasionally fire it up on a Win10 BC if I want a solid, very portable Windows machine, though I have a dedicated Windows laptop beast (32GB/8GB 1080GTX) for .NET work and when I need to work in AR/VR on the actual visualization side, or use Windows specific xR hardware.

 

[macjunk(ie)]

....



You won't find any Windows computer with comparable internals for $1500. More like $2000 for multimedia laptops and $2500+ for professional laptops (the bracket the MBP is in). For instance, Dell precision with comparable specs is $2600, which is just south of Apple's $2800 — and the MacBook comes with a better GPU, faster WiFi, better real-world battery life and more expensive thunderbolt controllers. And sure, you can find a gaming laptop with comparable overall performance for $1500, but then you can throw everything else (portability, screen quality, battery, build quality) out of the window. Difficult to build a quality machine for that kind of money if prices of the primary components (CPU/GPU/RAM) approach $1000.

Apart from the GPU, I think the Dell is a better option.
- Very easy not to pay retail for the 5520
- User serviceable (so buy low tier option and upgrade yourself for cheaper. Even get 32GB RAM if you want)
- Battery life under use (like when compiling software) is better on the Dell. The MBP has a lower battery capacity.
- Touch bar for software developers, IMHO, is a distraction and a waste. Most of us rely on keyboard shortcuts
- Comes with Intel 8265 cards that has great driver support from Intel
- Runs Ubuntu pretty nicely

Anyway, all this is moot cause the OP is an iOS developer from the looks of it. So Mac it is.
I am a server side developer and don't really need Mac OS. Ubuntu will do just fine. I got into the Mac ecosystem during the saner times. MacOS is my preferred OS. But come next September, my yearly upgrade cycle, if the MBPs remain as they are now, I will be getting either a Thinkpad or a Dell Precision

 

[Nixir]

It all depends on the platform you are developing for. I got into Android development a couple of years ago, and with each update of Android Studio the JDK gets more and more power hungry. My 15 inch with 16GB of ram definitely feels sluggish, lately Android Studio routines takes 10+ GB all by itself. Add on a web browser and a couple of other apps... I know my next machine will need 32GB

 

[deliriumxy]

So I have a 2017 15" refurbished base model on order. Last doubt I have before committing to this would be the storage space. 256 gb is not a lot. Options for getting 512 gb refurb or not would run an additional $500. Is it worth it to upgrade this?