Mavericks converted my Gmail account from POP3 to IMAP?!

[splitpea]

Yes, I still use POP3, because Gmail handles folders, and because I like to be able to locally file mail from multiple accounts in the same folder... and not worry about filing/deleting mail locally filing/deleting it on the server... etc, etc.

Anyway, that's not the point.

If I go to delete the IMAP account that Mavericks created, in order to replace it with a new POP3 account, it warns that it'll delete all my local mail. That's almost 8 years' worth of archives that I DO NOT want to lose and that would take a week to re-import to Mail.app.

Halp?

 

[blesio]

Can't you just change the type from IMAP to POP3? No such option?

 

[splitpea]

It didn't seem to have any such option.

Then I googled and googled and googled and finally found the actual mail account settings do still exist (not the dumbed-down system prefs one with zero info besides the fact that they're automatically giving the entire OS access to your third-party accounts, like it or no...)

It's still POP3 (*whew*)

On to new questions... like why ActivityMonitor won't show memory usage for *any* process until you sample any one process... and why some icon service is taking up a fifth of a gig of memory... and why I didn't get asked whether I want to sign in to FaceTime.

You know, I switched from Windows to Mac over 10 years ago, because unlike Windows at the time, OS X didn't do things behind your back without telling you; you actually had control over configuration, with no unwanted and inextricable side-effects; and it wasn't mysterious. Maybe it's time to switch to Linux.

 

[TheBacklash]

Sounds like you got it fixed, but couldn't you just backup/export all the mail anyway?
switch settings.. and if it did delete all mail, import them back in?

I had to do that years ago once with my email accounts on a winbloat PC.

 

[splitpea]

Sounds like you got it fixed, but couldn't you just backup/export all the mail anyway?
switch settings.. and if it did delete all mail, import them back in?

I had to do that years ago once with my email accounts on a winbloat PC.

Last time I tried to import a mail backup, about 8 years ago and with mail archives a tiny fraction of their current size, the import took almost an entire day!

Argh, why, oh, why did they make so many changes to Mail.app? Just discovered I can no longer drag email (BCC'ed from phone, or copies of private messages I sent through web services) to the sent folder. grrrr....

 

[Partron22]

Maybe it's time to switch to Linux.

Look before leaping:
Ubuntu bakes Amazon search results into OS to raise cash

 

[splitpea]

Well, at the very least, it's time to switch mail clients. Mail.app doesn't file junk mail properly when you mark it from a smart mailbox, and instead adds the senders to your Previous Recipients List (which means they'll never be flagged as spam again -- brilliant!)

Right now it's between Postbox and Opera Mail...

 

[HenryDJP]

Well, at the very least, it's time to switch mail clients. Mail.app doesn't file junk mail properly when you mark it from a smart mailbox, and instead adds the senders to your Previous Recipients List (which means they'll never be flagged as spam again -- brilliant!)

Right now it's between Postbox and Opera Mail...

I don't think it's all about the Mail.app, sounds more like you just have much more complicated services needed from your mail client. Yes, you should switch and you could also try Thunderbird.

 

[splitpea]

I don't think it's all about the Mail.app, sounds more like you just have much more complicated services needed from your mail client. Yes, you should switch and you could also try Thunderbird.

Wait, expecting a mail client to handle flagging junk mail without totally screwing it up if you're looking at it from a non-default view is a "complicated service"?

Mail.app did everything I needed in Jaguar, Tiger, Snow Leopard, and Mountain Lion. Now it stopped doing those things and is buggy and broken.

Sadly, it looks like Thunderbird (and Postbox, which is based on it) doesn't play nicely with extensive archives.

 

[HenryDJP]

Wait, expecting a mail client to handle flagging junk mail without totally screwing it up if you're looking at it from a non-default view is a "complicated service"?

Mail.app did everything I needed in Jaguar, Tiger, Snow Leopard, and Mountain Lion. Now it stopped doing those things and is buggy and broken.

Sadly, it looks like Thunderbird (and Postbox, which is based on it) doesn't play nicely with extensive archives.

No no no, you misunderstood me, I was combining all of your posts into one and I should've been a bit more clear. You started out with wanting it to maintain your POP3 account (who uses that anymore? ) and then after going through the motions you got that working the way you wanted and everything. Of course your setup overall isn't "complicated" but you already know other than some of Apple's pro software they try to simplify everything so you may need a mail client that will do more. Also if you're having issues with how Mavericks handles junk then it's most likely your setup. Mavericks handles my junk mail perfectly and I use Mail.app as the mail client for my business office.

 

[splitpea]

No no no, you misunderstood me, I was combining all of your posts into one and I should've been a bit more clear.

Ah.

Of course your setup overall isn't "complicated" but you already know other than some of Apple's pro software they try to simplify everything so you may need a mail client that will do more.

I guess I'm frustrated because my needs haven't changed but Mail.app has gone from handling them nearly perfectly to barely handling them at all. Sadly, after some investigation, the alternatives aren't looking much better (except possibly Outlook, and that's a $200+ investment).

Yes, overall, I'm a power user and am frustrated with Apple's increasing simplification. (Ironically, I originally switched to Mac when OS X came out *because* I'm a power user.) But I can understand why they make those changes, and deal with them as long as there are ways for those who need to to get under the hood, which for the most part there still are.

What really get me riled up, though, are major, ridiculous regressions in software that's been stable for more than 10 years. The QA process on Mail.app in Mavericks is a major FAIL.

Also if you're having issues with how Mavericks handles junk then it's most likely your setup. Mavericks handles my junk mail perfectly and I use Mail.app as the mail client for my business office.

This is an issue *only* if you're marking junk when viewing it in a smart mailbox -- several other people have mentioned this very specific issue, if you google around a bit. And it's a regression from Mountain Lion (and previous) Mail. If you mark your junk mail when you're viewing the inbox, Mail.app still handles it perfectly AFAICT.

 

[Fishrrman]

[[ You started out with wanting it to maintain your POP3 account (who uses that anymore? ]]

I, for one.

I prefer the way POP works (mail on my computer, removed from server after I retrieve it). If I'm not mistaken, under current U.S. law, mail left on a server for more than 6 months is considered "abandoned" and can be subject to seizure by the government. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stored_Communications_Act
Whether this remains constitutional or not seems yet to be fully determined, but the law is still there for now.

Having said that, this probably makes little difference anymore, since (in the USA) the NSA is capturing all email transactions, anyway.

I will continue to use POP as long as POP exists and can still be used.
No interest in IMAP - none.

 

[HenryDJP]

[[ You started out with wanting it to maintain your POP3 account (who uses that anymore? ]]

I, for one.

I prefer the way POP works (mail on my computer, removed from server after I retrieve it). If I'm not mistaken, under current U.S. law, mail left on a server for more than 6 months is considered "abandoned" and can be subject to seizure by the government. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stored_Communications_Act
Whether this remains constitutional or not seems yet to be fully determined, but the law is still there for now.

Having said that, this probably makes little difference anymore, since (in the USA) the NSA is capturing all email transactions, anyway.

I will continue to use POP as long as POP exists and can still be used.
No interest in IMAP - none.

Yeah, that works when you have a simplified computing life, I don't and most people don't anymore. I mean simplified such as using only one machine. Multiple computers (particularly in a business atmosphere as I use my Macs in) and POP3 mail are a huge fail. IMAP is the only way to properly maintain mail when using multiple computers with local mail clients installed. Sure, if all one is doing is going to Yahoo.com/Mail or Gmail.com and checking mail then it doesn't matter how many computers one uses but that's not feasible for many. I need to have my emails downloaded to each computer so I can easily read from any computer. With IMAP I can easily delete the email directly from Mail.app and it will delete them from the other computers. And that's a lot of reason why POP isn't being used as a preferred way of maintaining email anymore.

 

[Fishrrman]

[[ Multiple computers (particularly in a business atmosphere as I use my Macs in) and POP3 mail are a huge fail. ]]

I have 3 Macs (Mini, iMac, MacBook Pro), and all are set to use POP with my email account. I have no problems managing my mail between them.

That's because I have only _one_ machine that I use as my "main email Mac" (the Mini).

On the Mini, I have Mail.app configured to delete email on the server when it's retrieved. On the iMac and the MBP, I configured Mail.app to NOT delete email when it's read.

Thus, I can _read_ "new, incoming mail" on any of my Macs.
But once I download it on the Mini, it is moved to (and kept on) the Mini, and deleted from the servers. In the meantime, the messages on the other two computers stay on them until I delete them manually.

Thus the Mini becomes my "main computer", where business like email, finances, etc. are kept and managed. The other two Macs have their own purposes.

Makes things easier that way...

 

[splitpea]

Yeah, I have one main computer that my life is organized on; my other devices are a phone and tablet where I can check for must-reply-now email and do a bit of web surfing -- not where I'd try to keep my life organized.

I have all of them set up to leave POP3 mail on the server; only one of the accounts has a low enough quota that I have to ever clear it out, and that's about once a year. On any other computer, I just use webmail if I need email, but cases where I use another computer are pretty rare. I work for startups, so my personal computer is my work computer, and I just lug the laptop back and forth most days.

I use POP3 for three reasons:

a) Because I've seen too many IMAP disasters. A bit of corruption, or you hit "delete" at the wrong moment, and your mail is wiped out everywhere. I know that's not something that happens to everyone every day, but I've certainly seen it happen a half dozen times.

b) Because I'm very specific about how I like to organize my email, and Gmail doesn't play nice. Since I don't care to migrate my main personal address to another service, and since my last employer also used Gmail for Business, the only alternative is to organize locally.

c) Locally organizing my mail lets me store mail from multiple accounts in the same folders or subfolders of the same folders without actually sharing them between servers -- which is nice for having everything in one place without polluting my work email on the server with personal stuff (which my employer would then technically have access to) or vice-versa. And if I'm moving everything to local folders anyway, what do I gain from IMAP?

Besides, I have almost 20GB of email archives (yes, packrat), and even Gmail won't store that all in IMAP for me (even putting aside upload time).

 

[meme1255]

Smart folders wouldn't help you with organization of your mails?

 

[Xenomorph]

Oh wow. I've been using mail clients since the mid 1990s, and I've never experienced any of that with IMAP.

POP3 is a huge pain in the ass and terrible dinosaur from the 1980s. It offers nothing over IMAP and only makes managing mail that much more difficult because your email exists in an inconsistent state in multiple locations.

 

[scaredpoet]

I realize that I won't likely change the minds of the folks in this thread still using POP3, but IMAP isn't nearly as unrelaible as it's being made out to be by those same folks. Accidental deletions are extremely difficult when set up as designed (moving to the trash instead of immedaite deletion, or even archiving). And not only have I not experienced corruption, but I've used Mail.app to export/backup my mail to separate archives, making absolutely sure I don't accidentally lose anything.

If anything, all the disasters I've had with e-mail were way back when I was using POP3. When IMAP started becoming common and supported, I couldn't wait to jump ship.

It would probably be worth it to read up on IMAP and understand how it works, and how you can use it to make things easier for yourself. Just because you've been doing something the same way for many years, doesn't mean it continues to be the best way to do things. And I think the changes in how Mail.app works is a sign of things to come... a lot of mail clients are changing, and I think that POP3's days are numbered, like it or not.

 

[splitpea]

Smart folders wouldn't help you with organization of your mails?

They have their uses (and I use them), but they're not a panacea.

Furthermore, Mail.app used to have problems with performance and corruption with mailboxes containing more than a couple thousand messages. I don't know if that's still the case, but considering how buggy this version is, I wouldn't be surprised if it'd gotten worse.

Oh wow. I've been using mail clients since the mid 1990s, and I've never experienced any of that with IMAP.

POP3 is a huge pain in the ass and terrible dinosaur from the 1980s. It offers nothing over IMAP and only makes managing mail that much more difficult because your email exists in an inconsistent state in multiple locations.

I realize that I won't likely change the minds of the folks in this thread still using POP3, but IMAP isn't nearly as unrelaible as it's being made out to be by those same folks. Accidental deletions are extremely difficult when set up as designed (moving to the trash instead of immedaite deletion, or even archiving). And not only have I not experienced corruption, but I've used Mail.app to export/backup my mail to separate archives, making absolutely sure I don't accidentally lose anything.

I haven't experienced any problems with IMAP personally, but I've seen other have problems, so I'm reluctant to trust it.

It would probably be worth it to read up on IMAP and understand how it works, and how you can use it to make things easier for yourself. Just because you've been doing something the same way for many years, doesn't mean it continues to be the best way to do things. And I think the changes in how Mail.app works is a sign of things to come... a lot of mail clients are changing, and I think that POP3's days are numbered, like it or not.

I do know how IMAP works. I understand how useful it is *for certain use cases*. Those aren't my use case. If I could work around the ways it doesn't work for me, I might switch, but honestly, the time and effort aren't worth it right now, and I *like* my POP3 workflow.

Anyway, I don't have a problem with using POP3 in Mavericks now. It's the other ****ing Mail regressions that are ticking me off.