MBPr SSD write cycles? Useless for powerusers after 4+ years?

[telling]

Hi,

since one can't change the internal SSD from the MBPr I wonder - or better I'm concerned - what will happen when you have a SSD failure after 3 years apple care?

I guess you know this, but SSDs have limited write cycles. For example: The Crucial m500 ( a good SSD) only ensure to write 72TB (that's 40gb per day over 5 years). Working with 4k videos create a lot of written data on the drive (yes I think it might happen to hit the limit after 4+ years).

So far as I know apple don't use any server grade SSD which can have much higher write cycles.

Does anyone know if one can repair/change the internal SSD at Apple in case of such a failure? As a professional I'm really not to happy with Apples latest decision. I need a new mobile workstation, but I'm not too sure about the MBPr 15" any more. I'm not so excited to spend 3000€ on a machine which can easily killed by a hard drive failure.

 

[827538]

The PCI-e SSD in the rMBP is not soldered on. It does use a proprietary connector but it should be easily replaced either by Apple or a 3rd party.

Through regular use the SSD should far outlast the laptop. Mine uses a Samsung SSD and I have no worries about it ever going wrong.

 

[benthewraith]

Hi,

since one can't change the internal SSD from the MBPr I wonder - or better I'm concerned - what will happen when you have a SSD failure after 3 years apple care?

I guess you know this, but SSDs have limited write cycles. For example: The Crucial m500 ( a good SSD) only ensure to write 72TB (that's 40gb per day over 5 years). Working with 4k videos create a lot of written data on the drive (yes I think it might happen to hit the limit after 4+ years).

So far as I know apple don't use any server grade SSD which can have much higher write cycles.

Does anyone know if one can repair/change the internal SSD at Apple in case of such a failure? As a professional I'm really not to happy with Apples latest decision. I need a new mobile workstation, but I'm not too sure about the MBPr 15" any more. I'm not so excited to spend 3000€ on a machine which can easily killed by a hard drive failure.

If you're working with 4K videos, why on Earth would you do it on an internal SSD?

 

[2984839]

There is no way to repair it once you hit the max write cycle limit. They can be replaced, but use a proprietary connector so your options are a little bit more limited.

If you're still set on getting a MBP or anything else with a SSD, your best bet is probably to buy an external hard disk and use that for saving your 4k videos. Terabytes are cheap in HDD land.

 

[leman]

I am sure that there will be a way to purchase a new SSD, either from Apple or from someone else 3 years in the future. But let me put it like this - if you are editing 4k videos professionally then you will want a new computer after 3 years anyway. With new CPUs, GPUs and finally a next-gen RAM, those machines are likely to be twice as fast for your purpose.

 

[simonsi]

I'm not so excited to spend 3000€ on a machine which can easily killed by a hard drive failure.

Like any regular HDD-equipped machine? What lifespan would you expect there? I'd say 4+ years would still be par and you would still be exposed to drive failure.

Ignoring the mechanics of the end-of-life event, SSDs will likely give a much longer service life for almost all users, but during that life they will be less prone to shock damage and give the expected speed benefits throughout that life.

 

[telling]

I am sure that there will be a way to purchase a new SSD, either from Apple or from someone else 3 years in the future. But let me put it like this - if you are editing 4k videos professionally then you will want a new computer after 3 years anyway. With new CPUs, GPUs and finally a next-gen RAM, those machines are likely to be twice as fast for your purpose.

I asked today and the apple response is just that the SSD can't be replaced. I guess I will have a new computer in 3 years but I would like to use it for other proposes or give it to my parents or something. I just can't justify it to throw away a 3000€ computer, which will be great for all normal proposes like browsing even in 5 years. I don't have a problem with purchasing a new drive in some years, but I can't (unlike any other notebook out there). That's the problem.

I'm using it professionally, but that doesn't mean that I have big budgets (sadly). I can use an external HDD, but I really would like to use the internal. I even have two drives in my current mobile workstation.

.... Ok you guys are right, I'm just really angry with apple that it's not possible to change such a basic device like a drive any more. I mean there is no technical reason. They just don't want that.

 

[827538]

I ask today and the apple response is just that the SSD can't be replaced. I guess I will have a new computer in 3 years but I would like to use it for other proposes or give it to my parents or something. I just can't justify it to throw away a 3000€ computer, which will be great for all normal proposes like browsing even in 5 years. I don't have a problem with purchasing a new drive in some years, but I can't (unlike any other notebook out there). That's the problem.

I'm using it professionally, but that doesn't mean that I have big budgets (sadly). I can use an external HDD, but I really would like to use the internal. I even have two drives in my current mobile workstation.

.... Ok you guys are right, I'm just really angry with apple that it's not possible to change such a basic device like a drive any more. I mean there is no technical reason. They just don't want that.

I don't know why they're saying that. I'm certain I've already seen 3rd party SSD's for the PCI-e rMBP's. Might have been from ifixit. Don't let it bother you. The latest generation of SSD's are far more reliable that any HDD. Like the other poster said the chance of them breaking from shocks etc is far, far less. Aside from cost there isn't really any disadvantage to using an SSD over an HDD.

 

[leman]

I asked today and the apple response is just that the SSD can't be replaced.

I have no idea why they told you this, but its clearly wrong. I'd go to an Apple certified service shop and ask how much it would cost to order a replacement SSD.

 

[yjchua95]

If you're working with 4K videos, why on Earth would you do it on an internal SSD?

I was thinking more or less the same thing.

I do all my 4K work on my Pegasus R6, because writing too much to the SSD (like in excess of 100GB a day) is going to wear out the SSD. Writing 40-50GB a day will last for perhaps 5-6 years, but 100GB a day? Nope.

 

[UBS28]

I have no idea why they told you this, but its clearly wrong. I'd go to an Apple certified service shop and ask how much it would cost to order a replacement SSD.

Buying Apple SSD's is not cheap. Pre-rMBP, everybody upgraded their SSD's with off the shelf SSD's. Nowadays you can't do that anymore.

 

[dmccloud]

Buying Apple SSD's is not cheap. Pre-rMBP, everybody upgraded their SSD's with off the shelf SSD's. Nowadays you can't do that anymore.

Not yet, at least. It takes time to develop third-party SSDs for Apple products. There was a delay between the use of SATA SSDs in the MacBook Air/rMBP and third-party availability. With the current rMBP SSDs moving to PCIe, there is another delay, possibly a longer one due to the different interface.

 

[brand]

There is no way to repair it once you hit the max write cycle limit. They can be replaced, but use a proprietary connector so your options are a little bit more limited.

The connector is not proprietary. Apple has no registered patents, trademarks, or exclusive legal right on the connector so it is not proprietary.

 

[simonsi]

The connector is not proprietary. Apple has no registered patents, trademarks, or exclusive legal right on the connector so it is not proprietary.

Agreed, by the time these need replacing, the market will have provided alternatives...

 

[telling]

The connector is not proprietary. Apple has no registered patents, trademarks, or exclusive legal right on the connector so it is not proprietary.

http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/MacBook...splay+Early+2013+SSD+Replacement/17059#s36709

I also heard that it is proprietary. But I hope you're right, because it looks a bit like an m2 port (which is also a port for pcie attached ssd storage). I've searched the net but no information what port the are using.

 

[brand]

I also heard that it is proprietary. But I hope you're right, because it looks a bit like an m2 port (which is also a port for pcie attached ssd storage). I've searched the net but no information what port the are using.

What people are confusing is that just because a port is new, different, or not commonly used does not make it proprietary. It is all of those reasons why people are calling it proprietary when in fact it is not.

 

[maflynn]

Agreed, by the time these need replacing, the market will have provided alternatives...

Only if the manufacturers think there's a profit to be made. I expect to see them, but in all honesty its surprising that nothing has come out yet.

 

[telling]

What people are confusing is that just because a port is new, different, or not commonly used does not make it proprietary. It is all of those reasons why people are calling it proprietary when in fact it is not.

So reason why people think this is that the last gen. retina had a proprietary port (afaik) and there is no information about what they use now besides that it's pcie based.

But when you say it's not proprietary, do you have any information if it's a m2 port for the ssd? That would be great news, because it would probably mean that one can replace it easily if needed.

 

[laurihoefs]

So reason why people think this is that the last gen. retina had a proprietary port (afaik) and there is no information about what they use now besides that it's pcie based.

But when you say it's not proprietary, do you have any information if it's a m2 port for the ssd? That would be great news, because it would probably mean that one can replace it easily if needed.

Proprietary is not the same thing as non-standard. Proprietary would mean, that no-one else could manufacture compatible SSDs without Apple giving them permission. Non-standard just means, that someone has to figure out what the wiring of the connector is, and design a compatible board.

The ports in Retina MacBook Pros are of the latter variety. There already are SSDs for mid-2012 and early-2013 rMBPs from Transcend and OWC, and OWC has announced plans to manufacture PCIe SSDs for the never Macs.

 

[telling]

Proprietary is not the same thing as non-standard. Proprietary would mean, that no-one else could manufacture compatible SSDs without Apple giving them permission. Non-standard just means, that someone has to figure out what the wiring of the connector is, and design a compatible board.

The ports in Retina MacBook Pros are of the latter variety. There already are SSDs for mid-2012 and early-2013 rMBPs from Transcend and OWC, and OWC has announced plans to manufacture PCIe SSDs for the never Macs.

Ok, good explanation. But the result is not so different. The OWC is no real option (Sandforce...), but I didn't know the JetScan (I didn't find any tech info about them besides some meaningless benchmarks). Lets see how things evolve and when (and how long) they will be available for the latest MBPr.

But I have to say I'm really put off by apple in this regard. The only reason why they doesn't provide SSDs exchange is to max out the cash flow by strangling the user. The average consumers should buy a new computer when the need a bigger or new harddrive. A couple of power users who actually work with this gear don't count money wise. To bad there is still no real alternative to apple.