Microphone and Camera spying

[-BigMac-]

Hi guys.

With news of iPhone 14 Pros new “camera and microphone lights” telling users when either is in use, it reminds me of the number of times I have been near my phone talking about something, with no indication of anything listening to me, and no specific app open, only to have ads pop up with that exact conversation item next time I open a website.

Apple flaunts this facade of “privacy and openness”, but unless these sites can actually read my mind.. I am being listened to, without indication - when I am not meant to be.

Anyone have any similar experiences?

 

[TrenttonY]

Hi guys.

With news of iPhone 14 Pros new “camera and microphone lights” telling users when either is in use, it reminds me of the number of times I have been near my phone talking about something, with no indication of anything listening to me, and no specific app open, only to have ads pop up with that exact conversation item next time I open a website.

Apple flaunts this facade of “privacy and openness”, but unless these sites can actually read my mind.. I am being listened to, without indication - when I am not meant to be.

Anyone have any similar experiences?

Those lights already exist, it's just going to be in a different location on the new iPhone.

Yes, I've had that happen to me many times. It's very spooky indeed.

 

[iStorm]

Yep, but a lot of things I've noticed lately are things I've never even talked about or even bothered to search on the web...just my own random personal thoughts. Not saying the phones aren't listening to you, but what you're experiencing is probably more likely something called the "Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon" or "Frequency Illusion".

Am I Being Stalked? Marketing & The Frequency Illusion

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The Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon And It's Impact On Marketing

The Baader-Meinhof phenomenon is a cognitive bias that can be used in your marketing efforts to position your brand at the top of your industry.

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[eicca]

I've noticed that this only happens to me when I'm in the presence of people with Android phones.

It would not surprise me that Goggle has somehow figured out how to track people in the vicinity of other people and serve ads based on data collected from other devices.

 

[-BigMac-]

One of my examples:

I went to the kitchen with my iphone 13 Pro screen off. Placed the phone facedown on the kitchen bench. No app was actively open.

Walked 3 metres and cleaned my ears with cotton buds. I didnt verbalize or google anything about “cotton buds” in my whole life.

When done i chuck the cotton buds to the bin, grab my phone and go back to bedroom.

Instagram homefeed 2 mins later: “cotton buds for sale”.

I was off-angle for the rear camera to see what I was doing.. but.. really? Surely not?

 

[laptech]

One of my examples:

I went to the kitchen with my iphone 13 Pro screen off. Placed the phone facedown on the kitchen bench. No app was actively open.

Walked 3 metres and cleaned my ears with cotton buds. I didnt verbalize or google anything about “cotton buds” in my whole life.

When done i chuck the cotton buds to the bin, grab my phone and go back to bedroom.

Instagram homefeed 2 mins later: “cotton buds for sale”.

I was off-angle for the rear camera to see what I was doing.. but.. really? Surely not?

To prove no spying of any kind is going on, leave the iphone in another room so it can neither hear you or see you then do some activity in the kitchen and see if the homefeed then shows something related to that activity you did in the kitchen.

 

[JW5566]

This has been debunked a number of times by "experts" and explained away as coincidence. Unfortunately, this explanation does require us to trust companies known to be harvesting data and taking liberties with our privacy, so like many, I hope there's a rational explanation but won't be surprised if there's something naughty going on.

 

[-BigMac-]

To prove no spying of any kind is going on, leave the iphone in another room so it can neither hear you or see you then do some activity in the kitchen and see if the homefeed then shows something related to that activity you did in the kitchen.

True.. but that’d only work if at the moment by taking my phone along, something would ALWAYS show up based on my activity. Unfortunately this one was a one off in the kitchen, but it was so coincidental that I refuse to believe it was pure coincidence😬

This has been debunked a number of times by "experts" and explained away as coincidence. Unfortunately, this explanation does require us to trust companies known to be harvesting data and taking liberties with our privacy, so like many, I hope there's a rational explanation but won't be surprised if there's something naughty going on.

Unless the universe really is a simulation, I don’t know that these “coincidences” would really occur as often as they do. I’ve heard of many other people describe theirs and it just doesnt seem right

Those lights already exist, it's just going to be in a different location on the new iPhone.

Yes, I've had that happen to me many times. It's very spooky indeed.

True, it is spooky.
I had a look for the microphone or any of the light indicators and none ever appear when you dont expect them to.

I am going on a whim and straight up saying it is a deliberate backdoor.

Tbh who knows what happens behind closed doors at these inter-company meetings and retreats.

 

[sorgo †]

I remember a few years ago several moments after discussing with my stepmother the cough she’d been having opening Reddit and getting an ad for some Delsym cough product. We were in the kitchen with both of our iPhones on the kitchen island.

I hadn’t looked up anything related to coughs or colds on my phone, at least not recently at the time. These strange, spooky occurrences have all but stopped since deleting all social media apps (including Reddit) from my phone.

 

[-BigMac-]

I remember a few years ago a few moments after discussing with my stepmother the cough she’d been having opening Reddit and getting an ad for some Delsym cough product. We were in the kitchen with both of our iPhones on the kitchen island.

I hadn’t looked up anything related to coughs or colds on my phone, at least not recently at the time. These strange, spooky occurrences have all but stopped since deleting all social media apps (including Reddit) from my phone.

Yep, very odd.

It’s even more odd the fact that Apple would 100% be aware of this potential backdoor (bypass the hardware/OS controlled microphone indicator lights) and would be in on this for a reason.

Always wondered what these giant companies really discuss behind closed doors.

 

[laptech]

True.. but that’d only work if at the moment by taking my phone along, something would ALWAYS show up based on my activity. Unfortunately this one was a one off in the kitchen, but it was so coincidental that I refuse to believe it was pure coincidence😬


.......

as I said in my post, you can prove it. Leave your iphone in another room out of sight and earshot whilst doing activity in the kitchen. Either way you will know if it is coincidence or not.

 

[internetrando]

I've noticed that this only happens to me when I'm in the presence of people with Android phones.

It would not surprise me that Goggle has somehow figured out how to track people in the vicinity of other people and serve ads based on data collected from other devices.

That is exactly how part of it works. They know who your friends are, who your co-workers are, who you talk to, your spending habits, what you purchase, and can utilize internet history and other data to figure out what you’re likely to talk about or think about.

Furthermore, artificial intelligence and algorithms are much more powerful than most people would assume. If you need any proof, here’s an example of what they were able to do a *decade* ago:

How Target Figured Out A Teen Girl Was Pregnant Before Her Father Did

Target has perfected the technique of analyzing consumers' shopping habits to figure out who's pregnant. How can they send customers congratulatory coupons without freaking them out?

www.forbes.com

There is enough data out there (that you already willingly provide) that these companies often know what you need (or think) before you do.

 

[ArkSingularity]

A lot of this is also individual apps tracking you, then selling their data to unspecified third party companies which then can then sell it to other buyers. This is a huge part of how Facebook is able to track so much about its users (down to what you bought on Amazon, what songs you listened to on Spotify, what you ordered on DoorDash, which websites you visit, etc).

Apple made a huge step in the right direction by giving users the option to disable cross-app advertising IDs, but evidently some apps have been finding ways to circumvent things and to identify users anyway. It's a worrying trend.

 

[internetrando]

A lot of this is also individual apps tracking you, then selling their data to unspecified third party companies which then can then sell it to other buyers. This is a huge part of how Facebook is able to track so much about its users (down to what you bought on Amazon, what songs you listened to on Spotify, what you ordered on DoorDash, which websites you visit, etc).

Apple made a huge step in the right direction by giving users the option to disable cross-app advertising IDs, but evidently some apps have been finding ways to circumvent things and to identify users anyway. It's a worrying trend.

Corporations will never solve this issue. The only thing that will solve the data problem is strong privacy legislation that puts the power back into the hands of the people.

 

[ArkSingularity]

Corporations will never solve this issue. The only thing that will solve the data problem is strong privacy legislation that puts the power back into the hands of the people.

Couldn't agree more.

Part of the problem is also a general lack of awareness about the severity of the issue. People often still assume that tracking is primarily done "to help the developers," (as privacy policies like to try to insinuate), but that's not where many of these companies are stopping. Tracking becomes an entirely different animal when the data they are collecting starts getting sold to third parties.

 

[-BigMac-]

Couldn't agree more.

Part of the problem is also a general lack of awareness about the severity of the issue. People often still assume that tracking is primarily done "to help the developers," (as privacy policies like to try to insinuate), but that's not where many of these companies are stopping. Tracking becomes an entirely different animal when the data they are collecting starts getting sold to third parties.

See I have no issue with specific apps selling my data to third parties - because I know who those culprits most likely are, and I’ve weighed it up and decided its worth me keeping those apps.

What I would not be happy with (which is what my thread insinuates), is that Apple is in on it. Apple has designed a backdoor (maybe for specific NDA’d “contracted” developers), and is actively allowing the recording/analysis of the mic and/or the camera without notifying its users via the indicator lights. This is unequivocally happening, unless the lights are there, and we ALWAYS missed it in our examples?

Even if that is so, why was an app listening to me in my kitchen, with my phone screen off, nil permissions explicitly given, and no active app open?

Suss at the least

 

[Tdude96]

tl;dr, they don't need to listen to you, advertisers have many other ways of invading your privacy to sell you stuff.

A lot of it is predictive analysis based on past behavior patterns of you personally, the people you're around, and people who are similar to you.

Use a credit card, shopper's reward card, or e-commerce? That data's going into a profile somewhere for tracking and analysis. They know what your past shopping patterns have been, and likely will be in the future. This makes highly-targeted tracking very easy. Add in other technologies, and it becomes much easier and much more specific.

Often connect to the same wi-fi networks or at the same geolocation as friends or family? They know who you associate with, when, and what their behavior and purchase patterns are and can add that to the profile. (And don't get me started on the virus tracking stuff...even if Google's "privacy-centric" system Apple hopped on-board with is "secure," what's to stop other bad actors like Zuckerberg's company from developing similar tracing systems within their apps for advertising purposes? They not only know who you associate with, but exactly how close you were to one another and for how long.)

An easy scenario for advertisers to "listen in" without actually having to listen would be something like:

• Alex just bought a new lawnmower.
• Alex is neighbors with Brian.
• Alex and Brian were on the same wi-fi network for 10 minutes.
• This implies they socialized.
• In 80% of conversations 5 minutes or longer between neighbors, yard care purchases exceeding $200 are mentioned.
• The probability is Brian has heard about the new lawnmower from Alex.
• Brian will now receive ads for Alex's, or very similar lawnmowers.
• Brian now thinks advertisers were listening to the conversation.

That's a gimme. The profile information and predictive logic available to advertisers goes far beyond that.

There are existing technologies that leverage profile information across sites in pretty creepy ways. I'm personally aware of one company, and I'm sure there are others, that if you look at a product online or put it in your shopping cart, it gets added to your profile, and you'll start seeing ads for it in your email, online, and through direct mail campaigns even if you never sign in. They have fingerprinted you and have all your personal information. Right now the company I'm familiar with limits this to sites you've purchased from before, presumably to reduce the creep factor. But they have made it clear that they can do it across any site they're affiliated with and may add that functionality in the future.

Living in a simulator? No need. Effectively, you are being simulated somewhere for advertising purposes.

You're never going to be 100% secure, no matter what you do. You could completely disconnect from technology personally, get off the grid, go to a barter-only trade system, and there would still be a profile of you. But you can limit and obfuscate the information advertisers have, make your profile less specific and less valuable while still using technology.

Beyond Cashierless: How AI is Changing the Retail Experience

AI for retail isn’t just for online shopping, it’s transforming the physical retail environment too. Here's how AI is bringing new possibilities to the in-store customer experience.

www.getzippin.com

Isn't it convenient? Store fixtures that track everything you move, touch, or look at to shape your personal shopping experiences. More profile information.

https://customerthink.com/how-facial-recognition-works-for-your-customers/

Very cool, you can recognize people and begin customizing their experience before they even walk through the door. "Oh, but please try not to be too creepy about it." More profile information.

 

[planteater]

That is exactly how part of it works. They know who your friends are, who your co-workers are, who you talk to, your spending habits, what you purchase, and can utilize internet history and other data to figure out what you’re likely to talk about or think about.

Furthermore, artificial intelligence and algorithms are much more powerful than most people would assume. If you need any proof, here’s an example of what they were able to do a *decade* ago:

How Target Figured Out A Teen Girl Was Pregnant Before Her Father Did

Target has perfected the technique of analyzing consumers' shopping habits to figure out who's pregnant. How can they send customers congratulatory coupons without freaking them out?

www.forbes.com

There is enough data out there (that you already willingly provide) that these companies often know what you need (or think) before you do.

In addition companies like Google are working on predictive AI that assesses likely hood of certain events in your life and when they will occur based on past data and events. They’ve been doing it long enough that the AI is able to understand if such events did indeed occur, and is learning from its own success and failures, thereby getting smarter.

In my opinion they are probably already using that predictive knowledge to serve ads. And of course other uses as well.