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Valdaquendë

macrumors regular
Original poster
Nov 7, 2018
144
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Oregon, USA
I am preparing to transition from my beloved cMP 5,1 (Sierra) to a 2019 MP 7,1 (Sequoia), as I need the 7,1's AVX2 instruction set for Adobe and a couple of other apps. I have the two systems connected to my LAN and intend to use the Migration Assistant but given the long stretch between MacOS versions, and concomitant versions of such apps as Mail, etc., I wanted to find out if others had encountered any problems with such a transition and, if so, what they were, before taking that plunge.

Thanks in advance for any advice and for the time and energy you spent reading this.
 
I am preparing to transition from my beloved cMP 5,1 (Sierra) to a 2019 MP 7,1 (Sequoia), as I need the 7,1's AVX2 instruction set for Adobe and a couple of other apps. I have the two systems connected to my LAN and intend to use the Migration Assistant but given the long stretch between MacOS versions, and concomitant versions of such apps as Mail, etc., I wanted to find out if others had encountered any problems with such a transition and, if so, what they were, before taking that plunge.

Thanks in advance for any advice and for the time and energy you spent reading this.
Well, you won't be transferring applications or settings as those old app versions won't even run on Sequoia. This leaves just your user data. You are right to have concerns using Migration Assistant given the gap between MA versions itself. How much user data do you have? Perhaps you can simply copy the data between Macs.
 
Thanks, Bigwaff. I do realize that apps like my ancient DBMS, my Adobe apps and others will not be usable; I'm particularly sad to lose Ambrosia Software's "Snapz Pro" (easily the best screenshot-screen recording app I've ever had), Adobe CS5 (which I did NOT have to subscribe for), my accounting software and a handful of other well-used and/or beloved apps and utilities. But I'll keep the original system up, running and networked so I can use these until the transition makes that unnecessary.

Moving the data and apps manually will be more time-consuming and tedious but would result in a much cleaner system. I am a tech professional, graphic artist, inventor and all-around nerdy fellow with a huge range of interests. My boot volume weighs 1.2TB (with user data weighing 900+ GB) and that doesn't count the three 4TB data drives in the old system (I plan on 3D-printing a 3-SSD drive cage and installing SSDs in the new system). So I was tempted to just MA the boot volume and and clean up the mess afterward.

But I think your perspective convinces me; it will take more time to move the data and install the latest versions of (or substitutes for) apps that can't make the transition but the result will be cleaner, leaner and as efficient as possible. Again, thanks.

I'm open to any other advice, as well, so if you or anyone else has additional POV, it is welcome. Thanks again.
 
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If you have sufficient free drive space on your 5,1 (or a spare drive bay) you could clone your Sierra install. Then do a Sequoia install on top of the clone, within the 5,1 (leaving your existing Sierra install untouched).

This would let you test if Sequoia can handle an upgrade directly from Sierra, or if you need an intermediate upgrade to Mojave. Then further upgrade to Sequoia.

It would also let you curate what software still works in Sequoia, while still on the 5,1. Delete or upgrade any problem apps, and celebrate any apps that unexpectedly still work.

After curating, you'll have a more limited migration size, and guaranteed compatibility with Sequoia MA on the 7,1.
 
Reader50, thanks for that input; good thought. If I understand correctly, I would be cloning the SSD, leaving it connected to the 5,1, booting from the Sequoia installer on the 5,1 and performing an install to the cloned volume. I have never tried an install to a non-boot volume on a machine that was incompatible with the version being installed but could certainly try doing so.

I have not installed OpenCore on the 5,1 so, although I can clone the 5,1's boot SSD using CCC, I would have thought I'd need to connect the clone as an external to the 7,1, start MA and then import from the SSD. But your suggestion is intriguing; I may have to do it just to try it out. And it does have benefits, as you suggest. Thanks!
 
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Oops, yes. You'd need to either stop at Mojave on your 5,1 or install OCLP. And if you've never installed Mojave before, you'll have to go through certain versions to get your firmware updated to the latest version (144.0.0.0.0). We have a sticky thread on how to update to Mojave, to insure you get the firmware updates along the way.

My suggestion is triggering a side project. But I'm not sure Sequoia MA can reliably import all the way back from Sierra. Or even if Sierra will support MA over ethernet. Your 5,1 definitely won't do target disk mode over ethernet. An external drive enclosure, connected to your 7,1 sounds much faster - if Migration Assistant will import across that many OS versions.
 
I am preparing to transition from my beloved cMP 5,1 (Sierra) to a 2019 MP 7,1 (Sequoia), as I need the 7,1's AVX2 instruction set for Adobe and a couple of other apps. I have the two systems connected to my LAN and intend to use the Migration Assistant but given the long stretch between MacOS versions, and concomitant versions of such apps as Mail, etc., I wanted to find out if others had encountered any problems with such a transition and, if so, what they were, before taking that plunge.

Thanks in advance for any advice and for the time and energy you spent reading this.

I did a similar move from High Sierra on 5,1 to Ventura on 7,1 and honestly, the best thing you can do is start from scratch and *not* bring any unnecessary preferences etc with you.

If your email is IMAP, if you're using iCloud, Messages in The Cloud for iMessage etc, just make your new user account the same name, and the same ID number, eg if your first account on the original system is Administrator, and 501, and your daily driver account is Person & 502, then do the same thing for the new machine, and all the permissions etc should then be equivalent.
 
Thanks, both reader50 and mattspace; I gave a lot of thought to this problem and believe at this point that starting from scratch and manually moving my data is best. There is the question of whether I could clone and upgrade my way to my goal and, though it is tempting to try it (for the experience, if nothing else), I think that, overall, installing from scratch and moving the data manually will produce the best end result, though it will involve more work and time.

reader50, I wasn't worried about the firmware; every cMP I rebuild (there have been four, so far) gets a complete firmware rebuild to 144.0.0.0.0, courtesy of tsialex. But the remaining issues seem significant. As you point out, it may or may not work. Even if it does, the transfer may carry hidden config files, settings and other items appropriate for the 5,1 (Sierra) but not necessary optimal for the 7,1 (Sequoia). Granted, I'll have to do a good deal more work but the result should be cleaner, leaner and more efficient.

mattspace, I used POP until earlier this year, when I switched to IMAP. So I have tons of emails marked as read (or deleted) in my Mail client that are not necessarily so marked at the host. I fear that they may be downloaded again (tell me if this is a nonsensical notion). Also, I have many hundreds of folders (mostly, but not all, "On My Mac") for clients, projects, user groups, various interests, etc., as well as friends, vendors, colleagues and so on, so I plan on manually moving the ~/Library/Mail folder from one to the other. I'll be doing some research regarding possible problems in manual moving of email data in this situation; if you know of any pitfalls, please let me know.

When I set up the 7,1, I used the same user name and password as the 5,1, so my user name and ID number are identical. The 7,1 is current with many apps like Messenger, Contacts, Calendar, etc. I consider Mail to be one of the major items, along with Contacts (the contacts are on the 7,1 but, good-god, I need to go through them!) and iTunes. I have close to 20,000 songs and have noticed, over the last few years, a creeping corruption of the iTunes database (mostly related to showing album art properly when sorting or in album view). I have been assiduous about song and album info, album art, etc., for the songs/albums. I don't care about such things as play-count or ratings, so I plan on moving the music files folder to the new system and then importing them into Music to create a fresh database.

Again, thanks to all of you for your advice; any further words of wisdom will be gratefully received and carefully considered.
 
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.. if your first account on the original system is Administrator, and 501, and your daily driver account is Person & 502, then do the same thing for the new machine, and all the permissions etc should then be equivalent.

I am probably missing something important here (and have, perhaps, been missing it forever), but I've always just installed myself as the Administrator and only user. Can you brief me on why I might want to have both Administrator and a "daily driver" account?
 
I am probably missing something important here (and have, perhaps, been missing it forever), but I've always just installed myself as the Administrator and only user. Can you brief me on why I might want to have both Administrator and a "daily driver" account?

Oh I have an Administrator account that doesn't have any of my UI / UX enhancements, peripheral drivers etc, it also provides a backup if your main user account gets hosed for whatever reason, you can switch to it and troubleshoot etc.

Generally it's been considered best practice for your general user account to not be an administrator account, but that can become inconvenient.

For migrating / recreating your account it's mostly just important that the new one match the old, so if you've only ever had the one Admin account, they'll both be ID 501, which is fine.

mattspace, I used POP until earlier this year, when I switched to IMAP. So I have tons of emails marked as read (or deleted) in my Mail client that are not necessarily so marked at the host. I fear that they may be downloaded again (tell me if this is a nonsensical notion). Also, I have many hundreds of folders (mostly, but not all, "On My Mac") for clients, projects, user groups, various interests, etc., as well as friends, vendors, colleagues and so on, so I plan on manually moving the ~/Library/Mail folder from one to the other. I'll be doing some research regarding possible problems in manual moving of email data in this situation; if you know of any pitfalls, please let me know.

OK, so I used to keep my mail archive on my Mac, and a whole bunch of my old messages were destroyed by bitrot and Apple's bad mail app updates. I have old messages that are Cronenberged into each other, with munged up headers, and multiple emails in the one message, it's like the end of The Fly.

You can have all those folders etc on the IMAP server. Set them up, then copy the messages up - all the flagging, reply status etc should stick with them. I would honestly do that on the older machine first, get that all done, THEN intrduce that whole new IMAP setup to the new machine. The mailserver is a much safer, more stable place to keep mail, than Apple's filesystem and mail.app's unpredictability.

A really good app for this sort of thing is MailMate - it's a hardcore IMAP client that is WAY more reliable than Apple's app. It gets read unread counts right, message counts right (Apple's app will just refuse to index of see some emails for np good reason). I've used it multiple times to migrate mail between mail hosts etc.

When I set up the 7,1, I used the same user name and password as the 5,1, so my user name and ID number are identical. The 7,1 is current with many apps like Messenger, Contacts, Calendar, etc. I consider Mail to be one of the major items, along with Contacts (the contacts are on the 7,1 but, good-god, I need to go through them!) and iTunes.

iCloud is good for iCloud stuff, and generally works quite well. These newer machines are much better with Airdrop and that sort of thing.

iTunes unfortuately is a dead end - Apple Music is a brittle, garbagefire app in comparison. If you want JUST a music player, check out Doppler, which also has an iOS app and can sync over Wifi directly to your iOS devices. It also watches the folder you tell it your music collection is in, and when you add songs in finder to that folder, Doppler auto adds them to its library etc.

MP3Tag is a great app for cleaning up the ID3 tags, which are what are probably getting messed up in your case.

If you use Podcasts, Apple is wrecking that in new systems by enforcing that all downloads have to be kept on your boot drive, in randomised folder names, in a location you don't have permission to access directly.

A system I use is Doughnut as a podcatcher, then iMazing to copy files over onto my iOS devices. A lot of my Podcast management involves Hazel workflows to move files from Doughnut's library (which isn't backed up in Time Machine) to a dedicated audio archive, which is.
 
Thanks a million, mattspace!! I will check out both of these apps. I have some 22GB of mail going back a good 10 years. I tried moving the Mail folder (started Mail on the 7,1, quit it and then swapped the Mail folder). It did import the mail folders but they were in one undifferentiated "Imported" folder. It also failed to import the account information though that information was in the folder. I will check out MailMate immediately.

I'll also check out Doughnut and iMazing. I've been incredibly dissatisfied with Music and its high-handed "you gotta pay" ethic, beginning with its failure to connect to the libraries on other networked systems. I listen to many audiobooks, though, and have had them within iTunes. But I'll look for an app for that. If nothing else, I can convert them to "songs" and keep them that way.
 
Thanks a million, mattspace!! I will check out both of these apps. I have some 22GB of mail going back a good 10 years. I tried moving the Mail folder (started Mail on the 7,1, quit it and then swapped the Mail folder). It did import the mail folders but they were in one undifferentiated "Imported" folder. It also failed to import the account information though that information was in the folder. I will check out MailMate immediately.

I have email back to 1997 ;) You don't want to go moving folders in Finder - that can cause issues, the best way to do it is use your mail server - it's designed to store email correctly. When I was cleaning up my email archive to fix the things mail had done storing it on the mac, I made a second archive mail account at my host, and moved all the old mail to it, then I was able to go through slowly getting that organised, while keeping my existing mail account for current communications.

If all your mail is in one folder, you can use smart folders to provide filtered searches, and once the smart folder has captured the mail you want, manually drag all the contents of it to a regular mail folder on the server.

I'll also check out Doughnut and iMazing. I've been incredibly dissatisfied with Music and its high-handed "you gotta pay" ethic, beginning with its failure to connect to the libraries on other networked systems. I listen to many audiobooks, though, and have had them within iTunes. But I'll look for an app for that. If nothing else, I can convert them to "songs" and keep them that way.

Yup, Doppler is what you want for just music you own on your computer. Unfortunately a lot of good looking music apps don't work as a standalone library, and require a plex / jellyfin server, which is a whole other level of complexity.

On the iPhone I use Bookplayer, and just keep my audiobooks within my audio drive, which has music, podcast and audiobook directories.
 
Thanks, mattspace; I'm afraid other commitments prevent me from getting to this for a few days but I'll proceed when I can and update. Ill check out MailMate, Doppler, Donut, iMazing and Bookplayer when I can shake myself free.

I've been a long-time subscriber to Scribd, an online research paper and publication service which recently merged with Everand. I have discovered and read or listened to many, many books that I had no idea were out there, non-fiction and fiction. I'm not selling the idea but you might find it worth checking out.
 
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Thanks, mattspace; I'm afraid other commitments prevent me from getting to this for a few days but I'll proceed when I can and update. Ill check out MailMate, Doppler, Donut, iMazing and Bookplayer when I can shake myself free.

I've been a long-time subscriber to Scribd, an online research paper and publication service which recently merged with Everand. I have discovered and read or listened to many, many books that I had no idea were out there, non-fiction and fiction. I'm not selling the idea but you might find it worth checking out.
I'll update you on a little danger with Apple's mail.app (on Ventura, at least); I just discovered one of my accounts lost the ability to point to the IMAP server for its trash folder - going into the settings for the account, the trash location was set to "none" and setting it back to the server didn't work, it would just un-set itself.

The only solution was to set it to on my mac" and THEN set it to the server, where the setting would stick.

So for a month, that account has had silent insta-delete with no undo capability. THAT's why you don't trust mail.app to store your email on your Mac.
 
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