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Mini-jailbreaking?

BeyondtheTech

BeyondtheTech

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Jun 20, 2007
2,147
715
I'm wondering what exactly goes into jailbreaking after an exploit is found.

The current iOS has gotten good enough that I really don't need/want Cydia or the apps and all the different hacks they offer.

The things I'd really want are 1. force-enable the internet tethering option, and 2. custom SMS/email sounds. I know that #2 is basically throwing extra sound files into a folder, and #1 had previously been able to be enabled by means of a provisioning profile.

Do you think that the hacking community can make a jailbreak or exploit small enough not to be easily detectable by Apple, yet just enough to get some small, meaningful changes through?
 
You either have read/write access to the root partition or you don't. There's no inbetween.
 
Doubt it, you either JB or you dont. And about Apple detecting it, if you dont have custom themes, icons, lockinfo and other stuff and the cydia icon hidden you got a chance of the Apple rep not noticing your iphone is JB.
But if you bring it in for a replacement it doesnt really matter. Mind as well restore it to factory firmware.

BeyondtheTech said:
What about undoing the exploit once the changes have been made?
Click to expand...

Lol :D
No.
 
Maybe "undoing the exploit" wasn't the right phrase to use.

I meant more like 1. jailbreak, 2. copy the files in or make the minor changes, 3. unjailbreak so that it leaves no trace that the jailbreak was even done. Theoretically, it's possible, no?
 
BeyondtheTech said:
Maybe "undoing the exploit" wasn't the right phrase to use.

I meant more like 1. jailbreak, 2. copy the files in or make the minor changes, 3. unjailbreak so that it leaves no trace that the jailbreak was even done. Theoretically, it's possible, no?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately not.
Cause the only way to unjailbreak is to restore to official firmware. And once you do that the changes you made will be gone also.
 
BeyondtheTech said:
Maybe "undoing the exploit" wasn't the right phrase to use.

I meant more like 1. jailbreak, 2. copy the files in or make the minor changes, 3. unjailbreak so that it leaves no trace that the jailbreak was even done. Theoretically, it's possible, no?
Click to expand...

I'm not clear on why you think this would be better than the current JB. Are you paranoid that Apple can see you jailbroken? Surely having custom SMS tone would give you away even if you could in theory get rid of the JB?

The JB payload is actually quite small. If you just install some SMS tones and then TeatherMe, and then never use Cydia again, I really don't see why you would want anything less... You could even remove anything else not strictly required if you wanted to be OCD about it....
I'm genuinely interested to hear your explanation.
 
I think you can uninstall Cydia from your phone (manage>packages>Cydia Installer>Remove).

Technically full read/write access would still be there but there would be no simply be GUI for installing stuff (ie the average end user would be unable to tell that the phone was jb'd).
 
BeyondtheTech said:
What about undoing the exploit once the changes have been made?
Click to expand...

You have no understanding of what jail breaking is and what it does. Do some research and reading and understand what it is, and you will see that the second reply make so much sense. "You either have root access or not".

What YOU do after the door is open is up to you, you are NOT force to do anything if you don't want to. If all you want is some themes and sounds, them do that, hide the cydia icon, and you'll never know/remember you are jailbroken. that would be your "mini-jailbreake"
 
f4780y said:
I'm not clear on why you think this would be better than the current JB. ... I'm genuinely interested to hear your explanation.
Click to expand...

I've honestly thought about the question you asked and wanted to give you as best, honest, and detailed answer I can come up with. I hope people here will have an open mind and not turn it into some sort of flame war or insult match.

The bottom line is that I suppose I just don't want the full jailbreaking experience.

  1. While it's already highly accepted in the community, introducing unknown code into a closed platform always draws some level of doubt. While we're all to assume that the minds behind the jailbreaking scene and Cydia are "noble" enough not to inject even the tiniest amount of code that would steal private information or at least open the doors to do so, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and all we need is one guy to ruin it for all of us. Just look at this whole "greenpois0n" fiasco, even though they're not related to the jailbreak community.
  2. It's obvious that Apple doesn't like it. From voiding your warranty to the whole cat-and-mouse game and waiting for the next exploit, it feels like we're tossed back and forth like a football. We get nice new features in 4.2, but we don't have a full jailbreaking solution beyond 4.0.2. As an iPhone 4 user on iOS 4.1 and the latest baseband, I'm basically in limbo.
  3. AppStore devs don't like jailbroken devices either. Whether intentional or not, some apps don't run properly on jailbroken devices, or if you have issues, they are less inclined to help you out.
  4. Jailbreaking has side-effects. In relation to the previous bullet point, whether it's the additional code that's injected as a result of the jailbreak, users sometimes end up with weird anomalies, anywhere from lines on the boot screen to broken FaceTime, Location Services, or text messaging issues. Sure they can be patched up again, but it then starts to feel like a hack job. The latest exploit may be a tethered jailbreak, and that could be an issue for someone on the road a lot who has experiences crashes or have to reboot their device.
  5. It just doesn't feel pure or clean anymore. Maybe it's just me and a psychological thing, but I feel "dirtier" with a jailbroken device, probably because of all of the above put together, and because Cydia apps and hacks don't feel or act as refined as my AppStore purchases.
  6. The small hacks I'm looking for aren't intrusive or harmful at all, and likely won't incur any of those side effects.
 
BeyondtheTech said:
I've honestly thought about the question you asked and wanted to give you as best, honest, and detailed answer I can come up with. I hope people here will have an open mind and not turn it into some sort of flame war or insult match.

The bottom line is that I suppose I just don't want the full jailbreaking experience.

  1. While it's already highly accepted in the community, introducing unknown code into a closed platform always draws some level of doubt. While we're all to assume that the minds behind the jailbreaking scene and Cydia are "noble" enough not to inject even the tiniest amount of code that would steal private information or at least open the doors to do so, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and all we need is one guy to ruin it for all of us. Just look at this whole "greenpois0n" fiasco, even though they're not related to the jailbreak community.
  2. It's obvious that Apple doesn't like it. From voiding your warranty to the whole cat-and-mouse game and waiting for the next exploit, it feels like we're tossed back and forth like a football. We get nice new features in 4.2, but we don't have a full jailbreaking solution beyond 4.0.2. As an iPhone user on 4.1, I'm basically in limbo.
  3. AppStore devs don't like jailbroken devices either. Whether intentional or not, some apps don't run properly on jailbroken devices, or if you have issues, they are less inclined to help you out.
  4. Jailbreaking has side-effects. In relation to the previous bullet point, whether it's the additional code that's injected as a result of the jailbreak, users sometimes end up with weird anomalies, anywhere from lines on the boot screen to broken FaceTime, Location Services, or text messaging issues. Sure they can be patched up again, but it then starts to feel like a hack job. The latest exploit may be a tethered jailbreak, and that could be an issue for someone on the road a lot who has experiences crashes or have to reboot their device.
  5. It just doesn't feel pure or clean anymore. Maybe it's just me and a psychological thing, but I feel "dirtier" with a jailbroken device, probably because of all of the above put together, and because Cydia apps and hacks don't feel or act as refined as my AppStore purchases.
  6. The small hacks I'm looking for aren't intrusive or harmful at all, and likely won't incur any of those side effects.
Click to expand...

None of that will change with your "mini-Jailbreake" request, as mentioned before you either have root access or you don't, what you do after you get that access is totally up to you. If you worry about all THAT (all that what you just posted) them you should be happy living inside Apple's Jail and stay away from any Jailbreaking and that is a valid option too

BeyondtheTech said:
[*]Jailbreaking has side-effects.
Click to expand...

The only side effect is Awesomeness :cool:

lol
 
BeyondtheTech said:
I've honestly thought about the question you asked and wanted to give you as best, honest, and detailed answer I can come up with. I hope people here will have an open mind and not turn it into some sort of flame war or insult match.

The bottom line is that I suppose I just don't want the full jailbreaking experience.
Click to expand...

The jailbreaking experience is what you make it.
Like someone already said, "You either have read/write access to the root partition or you don't. There's no inbetween".

That's what jailbreaking is.

If you dont want the ******** you described, then that's up to you to not introdice into your phone.


[*]The small hacks I'm looking for aren't intrusive or harmful at all, and likely won't incur any of those side effects.
[/list]
Click to expand...

You answered your own question here so there you go...

Most of the problems people have after jailbreaking is with buggy apps and packages. Not simply because the phone is jailbroken.
 
Applejuiced said:
You serious?
Without cydia there is no point in jb. That the installer or all the jb packages.
Click to expand...

I wish jailbreaks would have the option. All of the things I'd like to modify on my phone are just files. If the jailbreak would merely give me read/write access via sftp or usb, that is all I would want at this point.
 
The General said:
I wish jailbreaks would have the option. All of the things I'd like to modify on my phone are just files. If the jailbreak would merely give me read/write access via sftp or usb, that is all I would want at this point.
Click to expand...

You can manually remove it, or just hide it and forget it was ever there. You will have to install any package manually and keep up with updates. If all you want is SSH access, at least POSIX tool and OpenSSH need to be install and manage.
 
BeyondtheTech said:
[*]The small hacks I'm looking for aren't intrusive or harmful at all, and likely won't incur any of those side effects.
Click to expand...

I really have no idea what you think jailbreaking is. Certainly it has no relation to the reality of jailbreaking. The only things jailbreaking does are remove the chroot jail that prevents you from making any changes to your phone, install some basic open-source UNIX utilities that are necessary to give you the ability to interact with your phone's file system (these are all well-established tools which are installed on millions of computers world-wide), and install Cydia, a small graphical front end to the APT package management tool which allows you to install third-party apps on your phone. That's it. These are all completely trustworthy and safe files which do not cause any side-effects. And they are completely necessary for you to make the kinds of changes you are talking about.

In fact, current jailbreaks are already as 'mini' as they could be while maintaining any functionality.

The General said:
I wish jailbreaks would have the option. All of the things I'd like to modify on my phone are just files. If the jailbreak would merely give me read/write access via sftp or usb, that is all I would want at this point.
Click to expand...

Do you seriously think it would be better to install and enable an SSH server by default than to install a tiny, harmless, and completely removable package manager that will allow you to decide whether to install it yourself? Personally, I think the decision to make your file system remotely accessible should be yours.

Besides, nobody is forcing you to keep Cydia if you don't want it; just install Open SSH and afc2add and then uninstall Cydia. Presto.
 
BeyondtheTech said:
I've honestly thought about the question you asked and wanted to give you as best, honest, and detailed answer I can come up with. I hope people here will have an open mind and not turn it into some sort of flame war or insult match.

The bottom line is that I suppose I just don't want the full jailbreaking experience.
Click to expand...

Appreciate your response, and you'll get no flame from me. I was honestly interested. I'm assuming you are a Windows user, and I think, as others have hinted, if you understood a bit more about unix/linux type operating systems, and the JB itself, you wouldn't necessarily hold your position. But then, not everyone wants to have a level of technical understanding of how these things work. Each to their own!
On a positive, if you decide to learn and improve your skills you could probably give yourself roughly what you want fairly easily by starting with a standard JB and getting rid of everything you consider unnecessary. I think most people just don't really see your side of the argument as to why you need to...

Cheers.
 
BeyondtheTech said:
[5]It just doesn't feel pure or clean anymore. Maybe it's just me and a psychological thing, but I feel "dirtier" with a jailbroken device, (snip)
Click to expand...

I simply do not know what to say in response to this...however, it does give loads of insight into the OP's outlook on jailbreaking.:confused:
 
BeyondtheTech said:
I've honestly thought about the question you asked and wanted to give you as best, honest, and detailed answer I can come up with. I hope people here will have an open mind and not turn it into some sort of flame war or insult match.

The bottom line is that I suppose I just don't want the full jailbreaking experience.

  1. While it's already highly accepted in the community, introducing unknown code into a closed platform always draws some level of doubt. While we're all to assume that the minds behind the jailbreaking scene and Cydia are "noble" enough not to inject even the tiniest amount of code that would steal private information or at least open the doors to do so, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and all we need is one guy to ruin it for all of us. Just look at this whole "greenpois0n" fiasco, even though they're not related to the jailbreak community.
  2. It's obvious that Apple doesn't like it. From voiding your warranty to the whole cat-and-mouse game and waiting for the next exploit, it feels like we're tossed back and forth like a football. We get nice new features in 4.2, but we don't have a full jailbreaking solution beyond 4.0.2. As an iPhone 4 user on iOS 4.1 and the latest baseband, I'm basically in limbo.
  3. AppStore devs don't like jailbroken devices either. Whether intentional or not, some apps don't run properly on jailbroken devices, or if you have issues, they are less inclined to help you out.
  4. Jailbreaking has side-effects. In relation to the previous bullet point, whether it's the additional code that's injected as a result of the jailbreak, users sometimes end up with weird anomalies, anywhere from lines on the boot screen to broken FaceTime, Location Services, or text messaging issues. Sure they can be patched up again, but it then starts to feel like a hack job. The latest exploit may be a tethered jailbreak, and that could be an issue for someone on the road a lot who has experiences crashes or have to reboot their device.
  5. It just doesn't feel pure or clean anymore. Maybe it's just me and a psychological thing, but I feel "dirtier" with a jailbroken device, probably because of all of the above put together, and because Cydia apps and hacks don't feel or act as refined as my AppStore purchases.
  6. The small hacks I'm looking for aren't intrusive or harmful at all, and likely won't incur any of those side effects.
Click to expand...

and u dont feel dirty ripping ATT off for free tethering?
 
BeyondtheTech said:
I'm wondering what exactly goes into jailbreaking after an exploit is found.

The current iOS has gotten good enough that I really don't need/want Cydia or the apps and all the different hacks they offer.

The things I'd really want are 1. force-enable the internet tethering option, and 2. custom SMS/email sounds. I know that #2 is basically throwing extra sound files into a folder, and #1 had previously been able to be enabled by means of a provisioning profile.

Do you think that the hacking community can make a jailbreak or exploit small enough not to be easily detectable by Apple, yet just enough to get some small, meaningful changes through?
Click to expand...

You mean like being a little bit pregnant? (Joke intended - flame not intended)
 
idk why the OP won't just jailbreak to get tethering and alternative sms sounds.


If you don't want to go any further than that, who is pushing you?



Personally I like iOS a lot, which is why I have an iPhone, but jailbreaking just makes everything so much better and more useful.
 
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