Monza under threat over noise row

[iGav]

Unbelievable...

Monza's been there since what??? the '20's... longer I bet than any of the complaining residents

I just don't understand it... people move right next to a racing circuit, and they bitch about the noise

If I lived next to Monza, I'd leave my windows open 24/7 savouring those glorious sounds.

Rinky dink link

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Total bollocks.

First Silverstone is in trouble, then Spa, now this? I'm sorry, but these courses have already earned the right to exist permanently...I see no reason why a little suburban sprawl should make them have to shut down. I would love to live there, oh yes!

Manunta denounced F1 as "an unnecessary activity, dangerous and without any social benefit and which has a considerable impact on the environment."

That italian magistrate is a w*nker.

And I though our governement was screwed up here in the states....

 

[MongoTheGeek]

It's like the people who move to the country, then whine about the smell of the pig farms.

 

[jimmyjjames]

I wouldn't mind an Itialian Villa within ear shot of Monza. Can't beat the sound of those high performance engines. Can't imagine what person would knowingly move next to a race track and then complain about it.

 

[840quadra]

This is sad!

Sounds like a US issue, not an issue in Monza's homeland! I love how a Motocross track I have been going to since I was a kid is now going to close because the people that BUILT THEIR HOUSES next to it don't line the noise.

UM, the track was there WHEN you were looking at lots.

If I lived next to Monza, I'd leave my windows open 24/7 savouring those glorious sounds.

Same here, and I would setup my G5 to record them when I was away from home so I can listen to them at night!

 

[patrick0brien]

Looks like the same lack-of-mentality persons who buy homes next to airports and complain about the noise.

I have to sit back and simply ask: what did they think it would sound like?

"Been around the world and found
That only stupid people are breeding"
-LIT

 

[JFreak]

Looks like the same lack-of-mentality persons who buy homes next to airports and complain about the noise.

That's different, because whereas you do not have control over where the planes will fly, you do know that the race cars stay on the race track. If you build your house near a race track, you should be fine with having the race track near you; however, if there's an airport in your city, the planes can fly circles around you in a way that seems random to you.

Anyway, the mentality of others having to adjust to YOUR thinking is wrong. If you have a problem with noise, you move away from it. So simple.

 

[jared_kipe]

Did anyone consider the fact that it was probably a town long before they built a race track? And that the first races they had at that track were much slower and quieter than the races that go on today?

 

[Sun Baked]

What's wrong with requiring mufflers on some of these vehicles?

It's bound to happen as activity increases.

Planes have been getting hush kits, or are restricted to when they can come into an airport.

Heck some of the planes have been banned from some airports in efforts to reduce noise.

A lot of tracks have been increasing their activity and holding more events and testing, so some of these noise problems are becoming a more common problem.

Sort of the problem at airports which may have had to shift a lot of cargo flights to the night shift to handle the increased passenger traffic during the day.

Or like the some of the busy S. California ports which shifted to 24 hour days.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Did anyone consider the fact that it was probably a town long before they built a race track? And that the first races they had at that track were much slower and quieter than the races that go on today?

I won't deny the town is older, but there has been heavy racing traffic since at least the end of WWII.

Anyway to me the bigger issue is this Italian magistrate's heavy handed condemnation of F1 - aside from whatever legitimate complaints residents may have, this goes above and beyond the noise complaints. There's a strong whiff of politics here.

 

[iGav]

Did anyone consider the fact that it was probably a town long before they built a race track? And that the first races they had at that track were much slower and quieter than the races that go on today?

True, but how many people have lived there since the '20's???? VERY few I bet... I'd lay money on the majority of them having moved in after Monza became one of the most famous race tracks in the world in oh, 1922...

What's wrong with requiring mufflers on some of these vehicles?

Noise restrictions already exist for the track, which is situated in the Royal Park of Monza in northern Milan.

But it currently receives 37 days annual dispensation of which it used 33 in 2005.

33 days... it's not really alot is it, and they don't test for 24 hours out of each of those days either.

But still... why move next to something that has a slight reputation for being noisy and then start complaining about it? It's beyond stupidity IMHO.

 

[jared_kipe]

True, but how many people have lived there since the '20's???? VERY few I bet... I'd lay money on the majority of them having moved in after Monza became one of the most famous race tracks in the world in oh, 1922...

What about generational families? Most cities populations don't just die off and new ones move in from the country. Not to mention people who have owned business or land. Now that noise is worse they just can't up and leave their lives and hometowns. You can't expect the entire town to leave just because there came along a loud race track.

But still... why move next to something that has a slight reputation for being noisy and then start complaining about it? It's beyond stupidity IMHO.

I agree, but some people go where their jobs or partners have to go.

Anyway, these people are about developing faster and better car technologies. For production cars that means mufflers. Impose a noise restriction that might be slightly higher than street cars, maybe not. But I would love to see the car companies inventive noise cancelation technologies that would spring forth from their combined need for less noise with better air flow.

Bottom line, if all companies have the same restriction, then they all have the same handicap. Like the ground clearance restrictions.

Also, maybe only lift restrictions on actual race day. There is no reason their testing of cars cannot be done with mufflers in place.

EDIT: Would situations be different if the town wan't a race site, but a site to test demolitions? Would people just have to put up with explosions happening all day, 33 days of the year?

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Racing simply isn't a "green" activity. I for one want race cars to be very loud. The get bad fuel economy too. F1 isn't a "race" to see whose car save the planet fastest. I don't think making race cars quieter is a good solution.

I live near a police/fire station. I hear sirens all the time, which are very loud. I got used to it. And I can assure you that they use them much more often than 33 days a year.

As for hereditary families... They have been living in the same house for over 80 years and decide only now to complain? That hardly seems to indicate the problem is unbearable.

 

[patrick0brien]

That's different, because whereas you do not have control over where the planes will fly, you do know that the race cars stay on the race track. If you build your house near a race track, you should be fine with having the race track near you; however, if there's an airport in your city, the planes can fly circles around you in a way that seems random to you.

-JFreak

Eee, err. Kinda.

Let's take the example of O'Hare Airport - very busy. I'm referring to the neighborhoods RIGHT next to it, Bensenville, Elk Grove Village, etc. These communities are so close that there is no circling, the planes have very defined landing/takeoff vectors there. So there is direct correlation with the 'cars on the race track' analogy, if the planes are not on their 'race track' that close to the airport, there is a serious issue.

As for the 'Airport in the city' yes, absolutely there is circling and stacking vectors that can change as the weather changes, and folks get used to it as it is largely background noise.

One aside on that point. The days after the 9/11 attack and the air traffic in the U.S. was suspended, I was living in the Chicago area. Even the radio personalities were commenting ad nauseum how strange it seemed with zero airplane noise. People had grown so accustomed to the distant drone.

 

[iGav]

Now that noise is worse they just can't up and leave their lives and hometowns.

But the noise hasn't just suddenly become worse though... what has made the difference all of a sudden?

You can't expect the entire town to leave just because there came along a loud race track.

But the race track hasn't just come along either... it's been there for the best part of 80 years, why now? F1 isn't vastly noisier now than it was 5 years ago, or even 10 years ago etc etc.

So have the people that have lived their since before the track opened finally had enough? or have the people that have moved in to the area since its construction, fully aware that they're moving close to a racing circuit deemed it to be a nuisance even though they were fully aware of what they were moving next to?

I agree, but some people go where their jobs or partners have to go.

But you don't have to move RIGHT next to a race track, you can move a few miles away from it.

Anyway, these people are about developing faster and better car technologies. For production cars that means mufflers. Impose a noise restriction that might be slightly higher than street cars, maybe not. But I would love to see the car companies inventive noise cancelation technologies that would spring forth from their combined need for less noise with better air flow.

Whilst I agree and you make valid points, I know I for have no interest in having a 'silent' Formula, for me the noise is an intrinsic part of the sport... I know of few things which sound as good as an F1 call at full bore. As I said in a earlier post, if I lived next door to Monza I'd leave my windows open...

Would situations be different if the town wan't a race site, but a site to test demolitions? Would people just have to put up with explosions happening all day, 33 days of the year?

If they moved to the town knowing full well it was test demolition site, then yes... they should have to put up with it.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Quick comment (slightly OT) on the airport issues....

Airports have become a critical hub of commerce and large cities absolutely depend on them as a key part of their infrastructure.

In order to be useful, they need to be reasonably close to a city - but nowadays the suburbs spread much farther out than is reasonable to site an airport. So they must be built IN the suburbs.Noise complaints follow, but people are being selfish and short sited in some cases.

Take my hometown in Cleveland for example. Hopkins International airport (built in 1925) is too small to accomodate the heavy widebody jets that fly the largest and most critical air arteries. Statistical analyses have indicated that this handicap has a significant (and detrimental) effect on the city's ability to initiate and maintain economic growth. Thousands of people make use of this facility every day, 11 million per year.

Yet a few hundred families have effectively blocked eminent domian moves aimed at expanding the airport to allow larger jets to land. Their communities were incorporated before the airport existed, but the homes themselves are almost all newer than the airport, i.e. the airport was there first. In order to stay where they are these people are maintaining an economic bottleneck that effects all of northeastern Ohio. They also constantly register noise complaints.

Airports (and racetracks) were not constucted to irritate people by making noise, and they need to be put somewhere. The case is stronger for airports but racetracks (especially those with a long and storied past) deserve more consideration than Monza is getting right now.

 

[jared_kipe]

A lot of things happen in 80 years. Maybe the people are just getting tired of it and finally decided to complain in court. 80 years ago african americans were not treated very well, and that was the way it was for several hundred years, doesn't mean they didn't have the right to complain.

Sometimes it takes a village to revolt to get progress.

That said, I'm just playing one side of the story. I obviously don't care about how one Italian town needs to put up with loud machines.

 

[840quadra]

I understand what you are trying to say. But This

80 years ago african americans were not treated very well, and that was the way it was for several hundred years, doesn't mean they didn't have the right to complain.

Analogy is totally ridiculous. What does racism have to do with a loud race track, that people want to have shut down?

 

[jared_kipe]

I understand what you are trying to say. But This


Analogy is totally ridiculous. What does racism have to do with a loud race track, that people want to have shut down?

My analogy is that people will be quiet (or relatively so) on a topic that disturbs them for only so long. Everybody is saying "why now?!?" cause they have had the track for so long. Well guess what, societies values have changed in the last 80 years. The laws reflect this, our patience reflects this.