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1096bimu

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 7, 2017
462
574
I'm a realist I don't really care how they do it, I don't care that the sensor is small or they're doing fake bokeh, as long as it makes good photos I'll be happy.
That being said, I have rarely used my iPhone 12 Pro Max to shoot for the past year I've owned it, I still carry my camera whenever convenient, because I have found the iPhone photos to be extremely poor in terms tonality, or more precisely, there's just way way too much dynamic range, which can only be described as ultra-extreme.
It used to be that phone cameras due to the small sensor, have very poor dynamic range, I remember seeing quantitative tests putting them at about 5 stops which is pitiful compared to real cameras at over 12 stops. However today with these always-enabled multi-frame compositing HDR, we have the opposite problem, there's just way too much dynamic range which makes everything look flat, you cannot tell what's supposed to be in shadow or highlight because everything is mid tone with some awkward specular highlights sprinkled on (that take advantage of the HDR HEIF format).
23423423.jpg


Here's an example, most cameras have some kind of setting in the menus that effectively adjusts dynamic range of the JPEG files it generates, and as you can see, even with maximum in-camera dynamic range, the shadows are extremely dark. I'd like this effect to have some even stronger settings but I'd have to say this looks relatively natural and in many situations even this is too strong, producing flat looking photos.

However, the iPhone just takes this to another dimension with how stupid extreme it pushes the dynamic range, there are basically no shadows except areas that are pitch black in the camera photos. It just looks flat and terrible, the outside looks fake because everything is like the same brightness. The inside looks weirdly bright as if there's artificial lighting inside, which there were none.

So more often than not, when I have to shoot with my iPhone, I always have to go adjust each photo, often to get rid of the excessive DR, which just defeats point, which is supposed to be convenience. Instead I rather just shoot with my camera because although I might have to transfer the image to my phone, at least I don't have to go adjust each one.

2342ew.jpg

These last two are just to show what a real camera can do if you have the RAW file, and also illustrate what is meant by "dynamic range", if you're unclear. DR isn't something where more is better, not in the final image. It's always better to have more DR recorded, but when you convert that into a photo, you have to translate the relationship of light and shadow into something sensible.

Hope this problem is actually addressed in the new iPhone.

Other than that, maybe tone down the super aggressive sharpening, not a huge problem because it's hard to see unless zoomed in, but still, it's way too aggressive and over done.
 
You’re comparing a full frame mirror less camera that cost $£3500 when new and that’s without a lens, (add at least £600 for a quality prime lens, so +/-$£4K) being compared to a phone camera…

A 12 megapixel phone vs 61 megapixel full frame.

Not really a fair comparison, at all. Also if that’s the best result from the Sony, either your settings need adjusting or your lens is rubbish.

Are you also utilising pro raw? Or just editing the regular raw file? As Pro raw is much higher quality with less noise and better recovering of details in the shadows/highlights. The regular raw file you get from the iPhones aren’t great as they contain too much computational edits still, and aren’t a true raw file.

The iPhone pro models have great dynamic range, and as a camera that is always with you, for its size, takes fantastic photos if used correctly.

This video is a much better comparison, and a much closer result despite the massive price difference…


And this one shows what ProRaw can actually do…

 
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You’re comparing a full frame mirror less camera that cost $£3500 when new and that’s without a lens, (add at least £600 for a quality prime lens, so +/-$£4K) being compared to a phone camera…

A 12 megapixel phone vs 61 megapixel full frame.

Not really a fair comparison, at all. Also if that’s the best result from the Sony, either your settings need adjusting or your lens is rubbish.

Are you also utilising pro raw? Or just editing the regular raw file? As Pro raw is much higher quality with less noise and better recovering of details in the shadows/highlights. The regular raw file you get from the iPhones aren’t great as they contain too much computational edits still, and aren’t a true raw file.

The iPhone pro models have great dynamic range, and as a camera that is always with you, for its size, takes fantastic photos if used correctly.

This video is a much better comparison, and a much closer result despite the massive price difference…
You're totally missing the point, try actually reading the post before making a reply.
My specific problem with the iPhone can be fixed with a simple software tweak.

It has nothing to do with raw or whatever, there's no mention of noise or lack of detail anywhere in the post.
iPhone is a point & shoot camera. Always has been.
Again, try actually reading the post, it has too much dynamic range, which isn't a problem on actual point and shoot cameras, never has been.
 
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I'm a realist I don't really care how they do it, I don't care that the sensor is small or they're doing fake bokeh, as long as it makes good photos I'll be happy.
That being said, I have rarely used my iPhone 12 Pro Max to shoot for the past year I've owned it, I still carry my camera whenever convenient, because I have found the iPhone photos to be extremely poor in terms tonality, or more precisely, there's just way way too much dynamic range, which can only be described as ultra-extreme.
It used to be that phone cameras due to the small sensor, have very poor dynamic range, I remember seeing quantitative tests putting them at about 5 stops which is pitiful compared to real cameras at over 12 stops. However today with these always-enabled multi-frame compositing HDR, we have the opposite problem, there's just way too much dynamic range which makes everything look flat, you cannot tell what's supposed to be in shadow or highlight because everything is mid tone with some awkward specular highlights sprinkled on (that take advantage of the HDR HEIF format).
View attachment 1832397

Here's an example, most cameras have some kind of setting in the menus that effectively adjusts dynamic range of the JPEG files it generates, and as you can see, even with maximum in-camera dynamic range, the shadows are extremely dark. I'd like this effect to have some even stronger settings but I'd have to say this looks relatively natural and in many situations even this is too strong, producing flat looking photos.

However, the iPhone just takes this to another dimension with how stupid extreme it pushes the dynamic range, there are basically no shadows except areas that are pitch black in the camera photos. It just looks flat and terrible, the outside looks fake because everything is like the same brightness. The inside looks weirdly bright as if there's artificial lighting inside, which there were none.

So more often than not, when I have to shoot with my iPhone, I always have to go adjust each photo, often to get rid of the excessive DR, which just defeats point, which is supposed to be convenience. Instead I rather just shoot with my camera because although I might have to transfer the image to my phone, at least I don't have to go adjust each one.

View attachment 1832399
These last two are just to show what a real camera can do if you have the RAW file, and also illustrate what is meant by "dynamic range", if you're unclear. DR isn't something where more is better, not in the final image. It's always better to have more DR recorded, but when you convert that into a photo, you have to translate the relationship of light and shadow into something sensible.

Hope this problem is actually addressed in the new iPhone.

Other than that, maybe tone down the super aggressive sharpening, not a huge problem because it's hard to see unless zoomed in, but still, it's way too aggressive and over done.
I feel the same as you. I still have an iPhone X, and all iPhones that came after that have worse colors to my eyes and abuse from HDR like crazy. It’s ugly and unnatural.
Pd: I also have a FF camera, Sony before, Canon now…
 
I'm a realist I don't really care how they do it, I don't care that the sensor is small or they're doing fake bokeh, as long as it makes good photos I'll be happy.
That being said, I have rarely used my iPhone 12 Pro Max to shoot for the past year I've owned it, I still carry my camera whenever convenient, because I have found the iPhone photos to be extremely poor in terms tonality, or more precisely, there's just way way too much dynamic range, which can only be described as ultra-extreme.
It used to be that phone cameras due to the small sensor, have very poor dynamic range, I remember seeing quantitative tests putting them at about 5 stops which is pitiful compared to real cameras at over 12 stops. However today with these always-enabled multi-frame compositing HDR, we have the opposite problem, there's just way too much dynamic range which makes everything look flat, you cannot tell what's supposed to be in shadow or highlight because everything is mid tone with some awkward specular highlights sprinkled on (that take advantage of the HDR HEIF format).
View attachment 1832397

Here's an example, most cameras have some kind of setting in the menus that effectively adjusts dynamic range of the JPEG files it generates, and as you can see, even with maximum in-camera dynamic range, the shadows are extremely dark. I'd like this effect to have some even stronger settings but I'd have to say this looks relatively natural and in many situations even this is too strong, producing flat looking photos.

However, the iPhone just takes this to another dimension with how stupid extreme it pushes the dynamic range, there are basically no shadows except areas that are pitch black in the camera photos. It just looks flat and terrible, the outside looks fake because everything is like the same brightness. The inside looks weirdly bright as if there's artificial lighting inside, which there were none.

So more often than not, when I have to shoot with my iPhone, I always have to go adjust each photo, often to get rid of the excessive DR, which just defeats point, which is supposed to be convenience. Instead I rather just shoot with my camera because although I might have to transfer the image to my phone, at least I don't have to go adjust each one.

View attachment 1832399
These last two are just to show what a real camera can do if you have the RAW file, and also illustrate what is meant by "dynamic range", if you're unclear. DR isn't something where more is better, not in the final image. It's always better to have more DR recorded, but when you convert that into a photo, you have to translate the relationship of light and shadow into something sensible.

Hope this problem is actually addressed in the new iPhone.

Other than that, maybe tone down the super aggressive sharpening, not a huge problem because it's hard to see unless zoomed in, but still, it's way too aggressive and over done.
Funny you say this. The camera on the 12 Pro Max made me start carrying my X100V much more often. The crazy expose for for entire scene..I just don’t like the results. I’ve tried turning settings on/off but I’ve taken images of things like a blue sky over PCH/Malibu & when I looked at the photo my only thought was it didn’t even look like that. Not even close. TOO much accuracy? + HDR effect. I’ve used the camera on my 12PM less than any iPhone since an iPhone 3G.
 
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