My Experience with Apple Store and Keyboard Replacement

[Christian 5G]

Hey guys,

I know I shared this on the keyboard repair page but I wanted to just share my awesome experience at Apple store which was initially set only for the keyboard replacement on my TB MB Pro 2016 and maybe you could get the same deal if you mention it.

1. Last week, I turned my laptop TB MBP 2016 in for keyboard repair program because some keys weren't working and were sticky and had different feel. As we know this was the keyboard repair program

2. The advisor that was helping me also noticed that I had my screen delaminating where the keyboard was scratching the screen and added that to the repair order. There is repair program for this if you are cleaning your screen and its just not coming off.

3. I mentioned battery and that something seemed to be clicking underneath where the battery is once in a while and she wrote that down as well. I was just hoping maybe they will take a look or something

A week goes by and I get my laptop back,

Got home and I know I had a rather ugly small chip on top casing before but it was no longer there, turns out they replaced the whole top casing part with screen.

Keyboard feels million times better now with all the keys actually working.

Today, I was browsing the usual stuff and was a little surprised that at the end of the day my battery is still at 65%, so I checked and it looks like they also replaced the battery with only 4 cycles on it now. Before I had around 270 cycles.

So, the point is,

If you are taking your MacBook for the keyboard repair program, try to examine your laptop for:
1. Delamination
2. Does your laptop ever click where the battery is?
3. Just buy another MacBook Pro and return it when you pick up yours

I feel like I got a new computer now and honestly I really thought about upgrading this year to the 2018 MB Pro, but now I am holding that off as I can pull another few years out of this one now.

Really happy and wish you the same

 

[buran-energia]

They replace the battery and the whole top case when they replace keyboard on these models. The issue with the screen is called staingate on the internet. They will replace keyboard and screen even out of warranty for these issues for probably 4 years.

Personally, I wouldn't change the screen if it's uniform enough, because you can end up with a worse one.

 

[Tarek]

I recently bought a late 16' MBP and at first I felt like some keys were repeating automatically but after doing a fresh installation of MacOS Mojave, I haven't noticed the issue again even when I type rapidly. I did notice that my caps lock button either lags (delay) or doesn't work at all for a while and I don't understand why that is happening. It is very random and not an all-day occurrence. Did anyone notice something similar?

 

[IngerMan]

I recently bought a late 16' MBP and at first I felt like some keys were repeating automatically but after doing a fresh installation of MacOS Mojave, I haven't noticed the issue again even when I type rapidly. I did notice that my caps lock button either lags (delay) or doesn't work at all for a while and I don't understand why that is happening. It is very random and not an all-day occurrence. Did anyone notice something similar?

I don't find the delay in the caps lock button or lag but I find I accidentally hit it often when typing with my left pinky finger. Missing the left shift key and hitting the caps lock instead. I presume its operator error.

 

[AppleHaterLover]

I recently bought a late 16' MBP and at first I felt like some keys were repeating automatically but after doing a fresh installation of MacOS Mojave, I haven't noticed the issue again even when I type rapidly. I did notice that my caps lock button either lags (delay) or doesn't work at all for a while and I don't understand why that is happening. It is very random and not an all-day occurrence. Did anyone notice something similar?

Is this your first Mac? All of my Macs do that with the Caps Lock.

 

[Tarek]

@AppleHaterLover this is actually my fourth Mac. I understand that there is a 3-second delay when switching on and off but that's not what I meant.. it's just irregular in the sense that it sometimes work and other times doesn't. I was able to find a solution by going to Keyboard Preferences > Modifier Keys and switching Caps Lock to No Action - that somehow fixed it and now it's working perfectly.

 

[iMacDragon]

The caps lock 'delay' is deliberate to prevent accidental activations, it requires the key to be held down for 1/4 of a second or something rather than just instantly toggle the moment it's touched.

 

[cambookpro]

Mine’s in at the moment for a screen and bottom case replacement for the keyboard... feel like it’s a bit of a ship of Theseus situation, they’re replacing so much it’s barely the laptop I started with!

Luckily I have my iPad to use in the meantime, but it’s already been with them for 10 days and still no phone call to say it’s ready. I’m glad they fix it for free, but it’s still inconvenient.

 

[Tarek]

@cambookpro that's what I was afraid of when I wanted to send my older MBP in to have the battery and screen replaced, the downtime of waiting if you don't have another device to use. Car dealerships usually give you a temporary vehicle if yours has a factory problem, but I can imagine that would be almost impossible with the number of MacBook users and all the problems with the machines.

 

[craig1410]

Just wanted to add my own experience of 2016 MBP keyboard and top case replacement. Summary - excellent service.

Background
I bought my MBP 2016 on launchday in 2016 and for around the first year I never had any noticeable keyboard issues beside the expected week or so getting used to the new keyboard feel. Okay, I got the occasional “crumb” incident where a key would become obstructed by a mysterious piece of dust or debris but those were easily resolved either by blowing the offending key or just mashing it a few times.

However, since around February this year I have noticed a few more persistent issues which have gradually degraded my productivity with the machine. More specifically, I identified a few main issues:

1. Up and especially the down arrow keys were physically “clicking” down but unless pressed quite firmly would not register a keypress.

2. Left Cmd key was intermittently unresponsive unless pressed hard. This was really annoying when doing things like Cmd-X to ‘cut’ before pasting because the selected text would disappear as if the cut was successful, but in fact it had just been replaced by a single letter ‘x’ which you only noticed when you went to paste the cut text and found an empty clipboard or the previous contents.

3. The ‘o’ and sometimes the ‘e’ keys would repeeeeeeat, usually just yielding two characters for one keypress. Sometimes the spell checker would correct this before I noticed but other times the spell checker would become confused and change a different character to make a valid word that was nothing like the one you mis-typed. That was especially jarring.

So, with an impending business trip where I would need to use the MBP full time for a week, I decided to take it in for service.

The Repair
I booked my Genius Bar appointment online direct with the store and my only complaint here is that I had to wait almost a week for the first appointment. That said, I could have probably just turned up at the store and waited to be seen because they seem to have some capacity for drop-ins.

On arrival, I was seen very promptly and demonstrated the various issues to the Genius who was sympathetic and immediately agreed that I needed a top-case/keyboard replacement. He asked about whether I had a backup etc, which I had, both a clone and a Time Machine backup. I asked if he needed my account credentials to conduct post-repair tests and was pleased to hear that he did not. This was important to me because I use the machine for business and am under NDA to protect my clients’ information. My machine has FileVault enabled so I was comfortable that my data was secure and therefore did not need to delete my data before handing it over.

I was told the official line is that it may take 7-10 days for repair but the Genius was quite candid and said it should be quicker than that and ‘not to worry’. That was on Tuesday around midday.

So today (Friday) around midday I got a call from the store to tell me my MBP is ready for pickup. That’s almost exactly 72 hours from dropoff so pretty good! I went straight over and was seen within 10 mins of arriving and everything was all good functionally and cosmetically with all data intact.

I’ve only spent a few hours with the MBP since bringing it home but there is no doubt that it feels significantly better and the specific issues I listed above are (for now at least) resolved. The keyboard feels crisp and precise again, just like it did when new. I also have a brand new battery, trackpad and of course the top case. I really can’t fault the service I have received and I know that if I have any issues in future then I can go back and probably receive the same excellent service.

Oh, and at the same time I spoke to the Genius about my iPad Pro Smart Keyboard which doesn’t sit flat on the table when in use and sits up at the front edge a bit which makes it a bit annoying to type on. The Genius agreed this was unacceptable and ordered me a replacement which I collected at the same time as collecting my MBP. So basically I got about £550 worth of repairs/replacements without any reluctance from Apple at all, and all within a few days.

Fingers crossed the keyboard I have now (presumably the 2017 model) will last longer than a year or so.

 

[537635]

(already had four (4) keyboard replacements)

I just can't wrap my head around this. Never ever in the history of computers did keyboards (the most important input device) fail on such a scale and in such a miserable way (because of design decisions shaving a couple of millimetres of device's thickness).

And here we are, praising Apple for fixing our devices for the n-th time, costing us numerous hours in getting them to service, saving us a large sum of money (which we wouldn't need to buy in the first place if the laptop design was solid) and most of all leaving us without a working computer for a lengthy periods of time.

Oh, on top of everyhing, the current solution for the problem is putting a (leaky, as per iFixIt) condom on every key mechanism. Which of course is only available on new models, the old keyboards are being replaced with the same defective ones.

 

[netdudeuk]

And here we are, praising Apple for fixing our devices for the n-th time, costing us numerous hours in getting them to service, saving us a large sum of money (which we wouldn't need to puy in the first place if the laptop design was solid) and most of all leaving us without a working computer for a lengthy periods of time.

I totally agree. The more things need fixing, the more many people talk up Apple rather than asking how such a cash rich company with unlimited resources can end up with so many issues.

 

[DeanPSN]

(already had four (4) keyboard replacements)

I just can't wrap my head around this. Never ever in the history of computers did keyboards (the most important input device) fail on such a scale and in such a miserable way (because of design decisions shaving a couple of millimetres of device's thickness).

And here we are, praising Apple for fixing our devices for the n-th time, costing us numerous hours in getting them to service, saving us a large sum of money (which we wouldn't need to buy in the first place if the laptop design was solid) and most of all leaving us without a working computer for a lengthy periods of time.

Oh, on top of everyhing, the current solution for the problem is putting a (leaky, as per iFixIt) condom on every key mechanism. Which of course is only available on new models, the old keyboards are being replaced with the same defective ones.

If you had 4 repairs on the same mac, call apple and ask for senior advisor and tell them the story and how many times you had it in service and ask for a replacement.
They will replace it with a brand new 2018 mbp.

 

[x-evil-x]

(already had four (4) keyboard replacements)

I just can't wrap my head around this. Never ever in the history of computers did keyboards (the most important input device) fail on such a scale and in such a miserable way (because of design decisions shaving a couple of millimetres of device's thickness).

And here we are, praising Apple for fixing our devices for the n-th time, costing us numerous hours in getting them to service, saving us a large sum of money (which we wouldn't need to buy in the first place if the laptop design was solid) and most of all leaving us without a working computer for a lengthy periods of time.

Oh, on top of everyhing, the current solution for the problem is putting a (leaky, as per iFixIt) condom on every key mechanism. Which of course is only available on new models, the old keyboards are being replaced with the same defective ones.

yes I dont understand the praise of apple for this. I mean if your keyboard fails and then that one fails within a year they should just replace the entire machine for a newer 2018 model honestly. That would be good customer service as they did update the keyboard and the pre-2018's cant have this new keyboard.
I dont understand the praise on a machine most people paid upwards of 3000$ for. I want my laptop to last over 5 years and I dont expect that with these issues.
Has anybody had numerous keyboard failures and or apple accepting a swap of your machine for the price you paid for it?
[doublepost=1535787579][/doublepost]

If you had 4 repairs on the same mac, call apple and ask for senior advisor and tell them the story and how many times you had it in service and ask for a replacement.
They will replace it with a brand new 2018 mbp.

I thought 3 repairs would consider it a lemon not 4?

 

[DeanPSN]

yes I dont understand the praise of apple for this. I mean if your keyboard fails and then that one fails within a year they should just replace the entire machine for a newer 2018 model honestly. That would be good customer service as they did update the keyboard and the pre-2018's cant have this new keyboard.
I dont understand the praise on a machine most people paid upwards of 3000$ for. I want my laptop to last over 5 years and I dont expect that with these issues.
Has anybody had numerous keyboard failures and or apple accepting a swap of your machine for the price you paid for it?
[doublepost=1535787579][/doublepost]
I thought 3 repairs would consider it a lemon not 4?

After 3 repairs, but it must fail again for the 4th time. They will not ask you to bring it for repair again, just to take to Apple shop or AASP to write a report about it.

 

[buran-energia]

(already had four (4) keyboard replacements)

2017 version keyboards failed 3-4 times for you? What are you doing with it? Heating up the laptop, eating nearby, using it on the balcony?

 

[537635]

What are you doing with it? Heating up the laptop, eating nearby, using it on the balcony?

Oh, another one . Yes, my workdesk is in a sandbox. In the middle of the Sahara desert. Next to the stove, where I cook and when I eat, I put plates on top of the keyboard.

I actually keep my devices meticulously clean, 90% of the time the machine was stationary. These keyboard fail. For non-English languages maybe even sooner because there is no auto-correct to compensate. First signs are usually you needing to type the passwords more often than you used to. Again, password managers and TouchID compensate also.


As for replacement laptop. Yes, Apple did replace it after it failed for the 5th time. Am I happy about it? No. I would be much happier if they would address the issue properly. They first wanted to replace it with 2017 machine but after a while they bumped it to 2018 model.
I am 100% sure this keyboard will fail also in due time. There were already some reports (Andreas from BTT..) In the last year and a half I lost 1-2 months while the computer was in service and numerous hours while on calls with Apple representatives. I am sure some this will go on with the 2018 model also. I mean this would be a perfect laptop if they just kept the keyboard from the 2015 model and made the device 1mm thicker.
On top of that they replacement machine has a different keyboard layout so it's gonna be a hassle to sell it here. That on top of the price drop because these computers are notorious for having the worst keyboards in the history of modern computers.

 

[DeanPSN]

Well the 2018 is an improvement for sure on the keyboard.
I also keep my mbp spotless, dont eat around it and its not kept in a dusty envirnoment or travel much.
1st had some keys recessed/pushed in.
2nd had double typing some keys and was protected by the Moshi keyguard Apple sells from the moment was picked up from service.
3rd within an hour after picking it up from service, had one key that would not register press, would take couple attemps to work.

Called Apple, had to go to getba report that failed 4th time and replaced with 2018.

All this trouble took over 6 weeks downtime in total, 8 hours drive to AASP, hours and hours on the phone with Apple...
Very bad experience, but hopefully is all gone now.

 

[537635]

Well the 2018 is an improvement for sure on the keyboard.

I would say calling it an improvent is a pretty big stretch.

It is a bit less bad. Probably. There were already some reports about keys failing on 2018 models. I challenge everybody again to recall a laptop, which had such problematic keyboard design. Ever.

A proper move from Apple would be to offer users their money back. Same as the Note 7 fiasco. Would the stock plummet? Most probably, but it would also reassure people that Apple is still a trustworthy company, where quality comes first.

 

[DeanPSN]

I would say calling it an improvent is a pretty big stretch.

It is a bit less bad. Probably. There were already some reports about keys failing on 2018 models. I challenge everybody again to recall a laptop, which had such problematic keyboard design. Ever.

A proper move from Apple would be to offer users their money back. Same as the Note 7 fiasco. Would the stock plummet? Most probably, but it would also reassure people that Apple is still a trustworthy company, where quality comes first.

You are right about being a stretch, but feels better and with the condom they put on the butterfly mechanism, it's still an improvement.
Cannot compare it with the Note 7 problem, that was a serious hazard, the failing keyboard won't kill someone or set houses on fire.
It's too early to say if the 2018 is fixed or not, and the 1-2 reports around that says the 2018 failed again are really nothing to consider.
All the previous MBP had a certain number of failing keyboards, same as any other manufacturer.

 

[craig1410]

I would say calling it an improvent is a pretty big stretch.

It is a bit less bad. Probably. There were already some reports about keys failing on 2018 models. I challenge everybody again to recall a laptop, which had such problematic keyboard design. Ever.

A proper move from Apple would be to offer users their money back. Same as the Note 7 fiasco. Would the stock plummet? Most probably, but it would also reassure people that Apple is still a trustworthy company, where quality comes first.

You're clearly jaded by your experience and you may have every right to be but if I understand correctly, Apple has replaced your keyboard multiple times free of charge and has now upgraded you to a 2018 model. However inconvenient this is for you, it shows a level of customer service that is well above the industry average.

The reason I made my post above is because my repair experience was handled as professionally as possible with zero attempt to sidestep responsibility. That is rare and should be celebrated or at the very least acknowledged. The fact that I can take my defective product to a physical store and sit with a representative of the company and show them the problem and have them efficiently and sympathetically deal with it is worth a lot to me. I have experienced the alternative where you have to deal with some faceless repair sub-contractor via the postal system who have strict rules designed to disavow the manufacturer of as much liability as possible. That's after you have spent ages on the phone just trying to navigate the returns process to get a return authorised.

In my experience most vendors would have been reluctant to fix the problem in the first instance never mind the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, upgrade etc. Each repair will have cost Apple several hundred dollars and the upgrade even more. I'm not asking for sympathy towards Apple obviously but this hasn't been a painless experience for either party.

Anyway, it sounds like you think people like me are suffering some variant of Stockholm Syndrome when you hear me praise Apple for fixing their defective product. The truth is that I have a couple of decades of experience in both product engineering and support and perhaps I am more willing to forgive human error during design & engineering provided it is backed up by best efforts in customer service. Even the most valuable company in the world is just made up of human beings after all.

Regarding the keyboard design itself, which I am using to type this post by the way, I actually really like it and I know many others like it too. The stability of the butterfly switches is way better than the scissor switches it replaced and I find my previous MBP 2013 model to be really mushy and imprecise when I occasionally use it. Yes, it seems the butterfly switches do have some issues but I have to assume that the issues cannot be universal because if it was then Apple would not be making refinements to the design but instead would be making radical, emergency changes. I also saw some stats from some analytics company who tracked the MBP keyboard issues across the 2016 and 2017 models and there was a notable drop off in issues with the 2017 model. In fact, the stats suggested the likelihood of keyboard issues on a 2017+ model was roughly the same as previous, scissor keyboard models. I'll try to find this article and will post a link if I can find it.

It wasn't clear from your post if you have had actual issues with your upgraded 2018 machine and keyboard and I am aware that some people have reported issues but it'll take a bit of time before we have an objective picture of the 2018 revision's reliability. I'm confident it will be a step forward but I also am 100% confident that Apple will stand behind the product if it does continue to have issues. That for me is the most important thing!

 

[537635]

Apple is making refinements because:
- There are a couple of lawsuits going on exactly because of this. That's why the "small number" and "we're doing this because of the noise the keys were making".
- They designed themselves into a corner, where a redical redesign of this specific component is impossible.

Keyboard has always been one of the fundamental parts of a computer. The main input device. Design, usability and ergonomics have been constantly improved. When doing a radical redesign of such an element, you should make damn sure it is rock solid.

This is not a new processor, which has some issues or a software glitch. We are talking about a keyboard, which can be rendered permanently inoperable by a grain of sand.


So people here are discussing keyboard covers, how some are eating too much near the keyboard, how we should use external keyboards (on a laptop!). Stockholm syn. actually does sound pretty much on point here.

 

[craig1410]

Apple is making refinements because:
- There are a couple of lawsuits going on exactly because of this. That's why the "small number" and "we're doing this because of the noise the keys were making".
- They designed themselves into a corner, where a redical redesign of this specific component is impossible.

Keyboard has always been one of the fundamental parts of a computer. The main input device. Design, usability and ergonomics have been constantly improved. When doing a radical redesign of such an element, you should make damn sure it is rock solid.

This is not a new processor, which has some issues or a software glitch. We are talking about a keyboard, which can be rendered permanently inoperable by a grain of sand.


So people here are discussing keyboard covers, how some are eating too much near the keyboard, how we should use external keyboards (on a laptop!). Stockholm syn. actually does sound pretty much on point here.

I’m aware of the lawsuits but that just means Apple can’t come out and admit liability, it doesn’t prevent them from doing a radical redesign if it was warranted. We also don’t actually know how many MBPs have issues. Again, I don’t believe the number will be high compared to shipment volumes of all machines which use the butterfly switches.

Regarding the eating near the computer thing, I personally am a bit on the OCD spectrum and keep my workspace very clean and tidy and don’t tend to eat over my computer. I also hate having a greasy keyboard or trackpad so wash my hands before using the computer quite often and also clean the keyboard regularly. However, I have also worked with people on the opposite end of the spectrum who would be very happy to work with half and inch of dust and fluff on their desk and with keyboards so dirty you could barely read the key symbols!

Not suggesting either extreme as being right or wrong but I can say with a lot of confidence that if I can have keyboard issues then anyone can. I would also suggest that the debris issue is just one element of the overall problem. I’m hopeful that other aspects of the problem such as repeating keys and up/down arrow keys not responding have been engineered out by 2017 and 2018 updates. For me, these were bigger problems than the debris issue.

Yes, the keyboard is a fundamental part of the computer but it’s still designed and manufactured by people so mistakes will happen. It’s very hard to simulate accurately what many months of use in different environments with different users will do to a keyboard for example. The easy option for Apple is just to keep using the same old keyboards every year and I’m sure that would satisfy a lot of people, but personally I admire Apple’s willingness to always push things forward. In my opinion, issues aside, the new keyboard is an improvement over the pre-2016 one so perhaps that makes me more willing to endure a few bumps in the road. YMMV of course.

 

[apiro]

... However inconvenient this is for you, it shows a level of customer service that is well above the industry average.

The reason I made my post above is because my repair experience was handled as professionally as possible with zero attempt to sidestep responsibility. That is rare and should be celebrated or at the very least acknowledged. The fact that I can take my defective product to a physical store and sit with a representative of the company and show them the problem and have them efficiently and sympathetically deal with it is worth a lot to me. I have experienced the alternative where you have to deal with some faceless repair sub-contractor via the postal system who have strict rules designed to disavow the manufacturer of as much liability as possible. That's after you have spent ages on the phone just trying to navigate the returns process to get a return authorised.

In my experience most vendors would have been reluctant to fix the problem in the first instance never mind the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, upgrade etc. Each repair will have cost Apple several hundred dollars and the upgrade even more. I'm not asking for sympathy towards Apple obviously but this hasn't been a painless experience for either party.

Anyway, it sounds like you think people like me are suffering some variant of Stockholm Syndrome when you hear me praise Apple for fixing their defective product.

...

... it'll take a bit of time before we have an objective picture of the 2018 revision's reliability. I'm confident it will be a step forward but I also am 100% confident that Apple will stand behind the product if it does continue to have issues. That for me is the most important thing!

I’m aware of the lawsuits but that just means Apple can’t come out and admit liability, ... We also don’t actually know how many MBPs have issues.

...

YMMV of course.

Do you not see a bit of contradiction here?

 

[craig1410]

Do you not see a bit of contradiction here?

No, perhaps you could explain it?