my gf's new powermac is DOA!

[QCassidy352]

man, this sucks. For years I've been trying to switch her, telling her how great macs are... today she gets her first mac, a new PM 1.25 Ghz G4.

We turn it on, get through most of the registration. On the time zone setting page, the spinning color wheel appears. Won't go away. We have to hard restart. Grey start up screen for a long time. Then the finder icon appears, flashing alternately on the screen with an icon of a folder with a question mark over it.

Cannot advance beyond this screen. Powermac will not boot up. Dead.

Goddamn it! She was so excited about her first mac, and this happens. Freakin' DOA. Aaargh, makes me so angry. We're taking it back to an apple store tomorrow, getting there right when it opens. I'm thinking we should turn the new one on in the store just to make sure this doesn't happen again. Soooo frustrating.

 

[mystixman]

A possible fix:

With the computer OFF and UNPLUGGED, press the PMU reset button ONCE. And then plug it back in and try booting up again.

I can't find any pics of the location of the button on the logic board, but if you look for it a little bit you'll find it.

 

[MacBandit]

Quite often this is due to ram or a pci card being jarred in shipping. Open it up and remove and reinstall the ram and press in the video card and any PCI cards that might be installed to be sure they are fully seated. Also make sure the drive cable is connected properly. Finally check the power supply connection on the motherboard.

Also use the PMU reset as suggested above.

 

[MacRAND]

G4 PPC DOA!

Originally posted by MacBandit
Quite often this is due to RAM or a PCI card being jarred in shipping.
Open it up and remove and reinstall the ram and press in the video card and any PCI cards that might be installed to be sure they are fully seated.
Also make sure the drive cable is connected properly.
Finally check the power supply connection on the motherboard.
Also use the PMU reset as suggested above.

Her G4 PPC is a solid workhorse. Assure her that it is not likely that there is something seriously wrong, just a loose connection. Encourage her (never TELL a woman to do anything) to relax. And, let her complain all she wants, and just listen - so she feels better.
Bet it is something real simple, and like the guys said before, likely something jarred loose during shipping.
First place I'd look is any extra RAM or anything else installed after manufacturer.

Look for the little Purple and Green battery, close to it should be the PRAM button.
(Or, the battery may look like the one below; it is real small, not like a standard C battery)
Push the PRAM / PMU Reset button only ONCE and restart.

Originally posted by MacBandit
With the computer OFF and UNPLUGGED, press the PMU Reset button ONCE.
And then plug it back in and try booting up again.

To celebrate your success, get 6 20oz yellow capped plastic PepsiTunes Mist/Diet etc. bottles at the store (if any) and let her pop each one until she finds a winner. (Tip & Peak helps; if you can see "PLEASE" or "AGAIN" printed inside the cap, put it back and try another.)
Hopefully, you will get lucky when she wins

 

[Dreadnought]

So I didn't read that you tried to boot from the CD/DVD. Do this by pressing the powerbutton so it starts up and hold the C key until you get in the install menu. Then install everything all over again and format the HD first. It sounds to me, due to the restart/crash, your mac has problems finding the startup folder and/or not everything was installed correctly. Good luck!

Ow, and after you get it running, install folding@home and fold for team MacRumors, #3446! LOL

 

[applewhore]

...

The curse lives on.

 

[floatingspirit]

Re: ...

Originally posted by applewhore
The curse lives on.

I wasn't gonna say it, but since you mentioned it.....!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MacRAND]

Re: my gf's new powermac is DOA!

Originally posted by QCassidy352
We turn it on, get through most of the registration. On the time zone setting page, the spinning color wheel appears. Won't go away.

What OS was on the main Hard Drive (Macintosh HD)? Jaguar 10.2; Panther 10.3?
Were you trying to load Panther, or just go through the Apple Setup at the beginning - location, time & date, existing email & IP info, etc.?

What jogged my memory is your graphic discription of the spinning color beach ball. I think the same thing may have happened to me 2 years ago.
So, I called AppleCare and they walked me through it.
(800) 275-2273
Have you called AppleCare? - that's what the first 90-day phone service is for!
Let AppleCare fix your girl friend's broken Mac and heart .

 

[QCassidy352]

hi all, thanks for the suggestions. It's running Panther.

I hear what you all are saying about possible fixes, but I also sort of feel like I shouldn't have to be checking connections, booting from the CD, and reinstalling Panther on a machine out of the box 5 minutes. Should it have problems later on, that would be one thing, but if a computer can't even boot up once... don't you kinda think an exchange is in order?

I agree with dreadnought, btw. When I was installing Panther for a friend, his old ibook crashed midway through the install. When we restarted, we got this same folder? icon. Which makes me think that the problem here, as there, is that the system software is missing something it needs.

 

[mklos]

Sounds to me like you may just have a corrupt install of Mac OS X. I've had that problem before setting up a brand new 1 GHz Flat Panel iMac for someone. I just wiped the drive out and put a fresh copy of Mac OS X on there and it worked fine after that.

Try booting from the CD's , or the DVD and see if you can reinstall Mac OS X. If you can do that then your probably ok. If you boot and there is no hard drives found or something like that then obviously you have problems.

I always tell people that if your going to have problems with a Mac, it will be in the first year you own it.

 

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by QCassidy352
It's running Panther.
I hear what you all are saying about possible fixes, but I also sort of feel like I shouldn't have to be checking connections, booting from the CD, and reinstalling Panther on a machine out of the box 5 minutes. ... but if a computer can't even boot up once... don't you kinda think an exchange is in order?
Which makes me think that the problem here, as there, is that the system software is missing something it needs.

Although it's nice to have your new Mac running right out of the box, software liches do happen especially upon a fresh install (like from the factory) for a bunch of reasons.
1. First thing after the initial install, run Permissions with the Disk Utility.
2. Run DeLocalizer (free) to remove at least a half gig of non-American English foreign languages unless you plan on operating your Mac in simplified Chinese, Brazilian Portuguese, or Australian, Canadian, or UK English. Bostonian English is still accepted as an "American" local language.
http://www.bombich.com/software/local.html
3. Update Panther to 10.3.2 (and 10.3.3 is coming real soon)
4. Run Software Update automatically or manually for everything loaded on your Mac.
What you are experiencing is not indicative of a serious problem.
To me, a single clean install in the beginning (not really a bad idea anyway) is pro forma. It's just housekeeping...puting ones house in order - installing new apps, moving data onto your drive, partitioning for OS 9 if you want, etc. Since I partition OS 9 into its own 10GB realm, I have to re-initialize the main drive.
Maybe it's also because I often immediately pop an 80 to 160GB 7200rpm HD into the 2nd slot so I save Macintosh HD for the OS and all the apps, and the 2nd drive for my data and as the scratch disk for editing, plus maxing out the ram (expensive on a G5, but not bad on a G4) and buying a new Kensington Expert Mouse trackball (I detest a mouse, any mouse). The 2nd drive has to be initialized too, so I just do everything at the same time.
A good fast Seagate Barrauda or Hitachi drive at Fry's electronics is right at or less than a dollar per gig, especially right around holiday weekends like President's Day or the 4th of July, and the mail-in Rebates combined with store discounts can really make a super deal. (Hey, ask a salesman to point out the screaming deals, they love to share their knowledge.) They have hundreds of them stacked on pallets just waiting for a good new home.

 

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by QCassidy352
hi all, thanks for the suggestions. It's running Panther.

I hear what you all are saying about possible fixes, but I also sort of feel like I shouldn't have to be checking connections, booting from the CD, and reinstalling Panther on a machine out of the box 5 minutes. Should it have problems later on, that would be one thing, but if a computer can't even boot up once... don't you kinda think an exchange is in order?

I agree with dreadnought, btw. When I was installing Panther for a friend, his old ibook crashed midway through the install. When we restarted, we got this same folder? icon. Which makes me think that the problem here, as there, is that the system software is missing something it needs.

Actually no a hardware exchange is not in order and unless you bought it at a nice local shop you will never get one. I was just trying to suggest some really quick simple hardware checks that could save you the trouble of packing it up and hauling it to a computer store. Besides if it fixes it then you would look really good in the eyes of your girlfriend.

 

[job]

The flashing folder icon will sometimes appear when the computer is confused between two or more possible boot volumes (i.e. between a Mac OS 9 install and a 10.x install.)

My iMac DV has crashed in OS9 sometimes and since I have both the OS9 and OSX system folders on my boot hard drive, the computer restarts but does not choose either system folder. I've had to use the Mac OS9 install CD to choose which boot volume I want to use.

It's an annoying, yet solvable issue. (At least if it's only a software/OS issue.)

 

[oldschool]

Originally posted by MacBandit
Actually no a hardware exchange is not in order and unless you bought it at a nice local shop you will never get one. I was just trying to suggest some really quick simple hardware checks that could save you the trouble of packing it up and hauling it to a computer store. Besides if it fixes it then you would look really good in the eyes of your girlfriend.

Straight from the horses mouth:

Dead On Arrival (DOA) Product: System Failure Out of the Box
An Apple-branded hardware product is considered DOA if it shows symptoms of a hardware failure preventing basic operability, upon its first use out of the box. If you discover that your product may be DOA please call Apple Care Technical Support at 1-800-275-2273 within 30 calendar days of the invoice date. Apple Care Technical Support will determine if the product is DOA and offer you the following options:

Replacement: The same product that you ordered will be shipped to you at Apple’s expense. An Apple Store sales support representative will contact you within 24 hours of your call with the replacement product delivery time, and the process to return the DOA product.

Service: You may have the product repaired; however, once serviced the product is no longer eligible for replacement. Product must be deemed DOA by Apple Care Technical Support within 30 calendar days of the invoice date in order to receive a replacement unit.

 

[QCassidy352]

Originally posted by MacBandit
Actually no a hardware exchange is not in order and unless you bought it at a nice local shop you will never get one. I was just trying to suggest some really quick simple hardware checks that could save you the trouble of packing it up and hauling it to a computer store. Besides if it fixes it then you would look really good in the eyes of your girlfriend.

Bought it at an apple retail store. Took it back there today and the guy at the genius bar tested it out and declared it DOA. He did a few thing such as reset PRAM, firmware, and power management, all to no avail. There was no argument, no disagreement, no hassle.

One thing about starting to run tests on it, reinstalling things, and fiddling with internal components, is that if those things don't work, at that point the store is in a position to say that the mac has clearly been tampered with, and it's not their problem anymore.

I don't care what you say - a computer should not freeze and refuse to reboot the first time it's ever turned on. That's not normal, and it's not acceptable. Happily, the apple store we got it at was of the same mind, and was very apologetic and helpful.

My gf loves the new PM, and it's working great.

 

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by QCassidy352
Bought it at an apple retail store. Took it back there today and the guy at the genius bar tested it out and declared it DOA. He did a few thing such as reset PRAM, firmware, and power management, all to no avail. There was no argument, no disagreement, no hassle.

One thing about starting to run tests on it, reinstalling things, and fiddling with internal components, is that if those things don't work, at that point the store is in a position to say that the mac has clearly been tampered with, and it's not their problem anymore.

I don't care what you say - a computer should not freeze and refuse to reboot the first time it's ever turned on. That's not normal, and it's not acceptable. Happily, the apple store we got it at was of the same mind, and was very apologetic and helpful.

My gf loves the new PM, and it's working great.

That's good to hear. Nothing I suggested would void the warranty. Everything I suggested is considered a user serviceable part.

 

[QCassidy352]

Originally posted by MacBandit
That's good to hear. Nothing I suggested would void the warranty. Everything I suggested is considered a user serviceable part.

fair enough.

I'm just glad it worked out well, and that she's a happy switcher now.

 

[absolut_mac]

Just to clear up a little confusion here...

Originally posted by oldschool
Service: You may have the product repaired; however, once serviced the product is no longer eligible for replacement. Product must be deemed DOA by Apple Care Technical Support within 30 calendar days of the invoice date in order to receive a replacement unit.

Please keep in mind folks, regardless of what Apple or any other company says, most states' lemon laws (and no, they do not only apply to cars) will protect you as long as you keep good records and get it seen to ASAP.

Meaning that for your hard earned money you are entitled to a product that is working 100% up to spec or they have to repair it, or replace it at their cost.

If they cannot repair it after 4 attempts, you are entitled to either a 100% perfectly working brand new replacement, or a 100% refund.

Since I joined MR I find myself repeating the above quite often, as people seem to think that Apple dictates the rules. When your product is defective, the lemon laws of your state overule whatever Apple has written on their web site, or your invoice, or told you on the phone. Period!!! End of story!!! And no arument from Apple will make those lemon laws go away

 

[MacBandit]

Re: Just to clear up a little confusion here...

Originally posted by absolut_mac
Please keep in mind folks, regardless of what Apple or any other company says, most states' lemon laws (and no, they do not only apply to cars) will protect you as long as you keep good records and get it seen to ASAP.

Meaning that for your hard earned money you are entitled to a product that is working 100% up to spec or they have to repair it, or replace it at their cost.

If they cannot repair it after 4 attempts, you are entitled to either a 100% perfectly working brand new replacement, or a 100% refund.

Since I joined MR I find myself repeating the above quite often, as people seem to think that Apple dictates the rules. When your product is defective, the lemon laws of your state overule whatever Apple has written on their web site, or your invoice, or told you on the phone. Period!!! End of story!!! And no arument from Apple will make those lemon laws go away

The problem is what you stated above isn't necessarily the same in every state. The problem with Lemon Laws is they are different in each state and are different for different products. Also most Lemon Laws are quite vague and are open to interpretation by the court. What may apply in one state may not in another and I wouldn't be surprised is some states didn't have a Lemon Law that covered technology period. That doesn't mean you state doesn't have a law covering warranties which sometimes also states what should be done in case of failure. In any case don't try pushing Lemon Law until it's the last resort. Otherwise you may just find your self in court against high paid lawyers. Try to deal with the situation politely and intelligently and you will find that typically you will get better service.

 

[Applespider]

UK doesn't have 'Lemon' laws per se though you'll have basic protection if you pay by credit card. And the Sale of Goods Act demanding that goods be fit for the purpose they were sold for, will always help too.

Having said that, I'd make sure that unless you are buying a BTO Mac, buy it from a reseller that you know/trust and if there's a problem, you can take it back to the shop and stand there til it's sorted.

I had a problem with my PB bought in early Jan. Frequent kernel panics with no obvious reason. Although I know I could have reinstalled, zapped PRAM etc, I didn't particularly want to - I wanted a machine that just worked! Thankfully, I'd bought it from John Lewis where if there's a problem within 28 days or so of buying it, they just replace it.

 

[absolut_mac]

Just to clarify further

Originally posted by MacBandit
In any case don't try pushing Lemon Law until it's the last resort. Otherwise you may just find your self in court against high paid lawyers. Try to deal with the situation politely and intelligently and you will find that typically you will get better service.

True, lemon laws vary from state to state, as do the laws concerning warranties, implied, written or otherwise.

And I do agree wholeheartedly with your excellent advice given above about being polite etc.

The whole point of my posts on this subject is that the customer is entitled to a product working 100% up to spec for their hard earned cash. Lemon Laws and warranty laws ensure that companies don't leave the consumer high and dry due to defective products.

As for high priced lawyers, if it really degenerates into a sad situation like that, I personally would choose to go the small claims court route. Judges are sympathetic to consumers who are polite, reasonably articulate and have good records to show that they did try in good faith to have the defect taken care of.

Small claims court is good for claims up to $5,000 in most states. Time consuming? Yes, but you do get results in the end - as a friend of mine will attest when he disputed a $3,000 charge-back by American Express. They never bothered sending a $300+ per hour lawyer to contest it, so two weeks later he had a cashiers check from them in hand

Lastly, and I know that this should be obvious, but the above only applies to genuine defects and not to buyer's remorse - although in some states and on very expensive purchases they protect you from your stupidity and impulsive buying habits too!!

 

[MacRAND]

Lemon Laws in the USA

Originally posted by MacBandit
... The problem with Lemon Laws is they are different in each state and are different for different products. ...
That doesn't mean you state doesn't have a law covering warranties which sometimes also states what should be done in case of failure. In any case don't try pushing Lemon Law until it's the last resort.

Otherwise you may just find your self in court against high paid lawyers.

Try to deal with the situation politely and intelligently and you will find that typically you will get better service.

MacBandit's advice though correct regarding Lemon Laws in general, it is incomplete.

For information on Lemon Laws throughout the USA, check out:
http://www.mylemon.com/
CLICK above, not below on the lemons.

There is an alternative dispute resolution (ADR) to Court, even small claims, it is through the Better Business Bureau (BBB) using the American Arbitration Association for Arbiters (judges) who are specifically trained to handle Lemon Law cases in your state.
http://lemonlaw.bbb.org/
Waiving courtroom litigation in favor of structured arbitration can save a lot of time and money. You are entitled to hire and bring an attorney to the arbitration hearing, more important than the Hearing itself, is proper preparation of your case with an attorney who is experienced in handlingLemon Law arbitration or litigation. It is important to document you entitlement to use and get relief under Lemon Laws. Otherwise, you can probably do a good job at the hearing alone.

To file a Complaint, go to
http://complaints.bbb.org/Welcome.asp

After reading about whether your complaint qualifies press the NEXT button, which will take you to:
http://complaints.bbb.org/SelectComplaintLink.asp?SupportsJavaScript=0

Next >
Put the name of the company, and guess what "Apple Computer" is listed.

Apple Computer
1 Infinite Loop, MS 35-2P_
Cupertino,_CA_95014
(408)_996-1010
http://apple.com
_
Finally, you will begin to understand the facts necessary to proceed with your Complaint when you get to page:
http://complaints.bbb.org/ConsumerF...26&MaxTextLength=2030&MaxSettlementLength=500

Bottom line:
negotiate before you arbitrate,
arbitrate before you litigate

 

[MacBandit]

Re: Lemon Laws in the USA

Originally posted by MacRAND
MacBandit's advice though correct regarding Lemon Laws in general, it is incomplete.

For information on Lemon Laws throughout the USA, check out:
http://www.mylemon.com/
CLICK above, not below on the lemons.

There is an alternative dispute resolution (ADR) to Court, even small claims, it is through the Better Business Bureau (BBB) using the American Arbitration Association for Arbiters (judges) who are specifically trained to handle Lemon Law cases in your state.
http://lemonlaw.bbb.org/
Waiving courtroom litigation in favor of structured arbitration can save a lot of time and money. You are entitled to hire and bring an attorney to the arbitration hearing, more important than the Hearing itself, is proper preparation of your case with an attorney who is experienced in handlingLemon Law arbitration or litigation. It is important to document you entitlement to use and get relief under Lemon Laws. Otherwise, you can probably do a good job at the hearing alone.

To file a Complaint, go to
http://complaints.bbb.org/Welcome.asp

After reading about whether your complaint qualifies press the NEXT button, which will take you to:
http://complaints.bbb.org/SelectComplaintLink.asp?SupportsJavaScript=0

Next >
Put the name of the company, and guess what "Apple Computer" is listed.

Apple Computer
1 Infinite Loop, MS 35-2P_
Cupertino,_CA_95014
(408)_996-1010
http://apple.com
_
Finally, you will begin to understand the facts necessary to proceed with your Complaint when you get to page:
http://complaints.bbb.org/ConsumerF...26&MaxTextLength=2030&MaxSettlementLength=500

Bottom line:
negotiate before you arbitrate,
arbitrate before you litigate

Thanks for adding all that. I was going to mention the BBB but since I didn't have all the information that you provided nor the time to research it felt it was best I left it alone.