Need advice for evaluating Open Box MBA before buying

[rmp71701]

I've got the $150 off student coupon for MacBooks at Best Buy, which expires in a couple of weeks. I'm looking at getting an MBA, unless a great deal on a 13" rMBP comes up.

Here's my question: Before buying & walking out with the computer, I want to make sure it is in good shape. I've read about how to run a diagnostics, which I would do. What else should I look for or check out to make sure that I don't have a lemon, or that the original buyer didn't somehow mess up the computer before returning it?

Any advice or help is much appreciated - thanks.

 

[RedCroissant]

I've got the $150 off student coupon for MacBooks at Best Buy, which expires in a couple of weeks. I'm looking at getting an MBA, unless a great deal on a 13" rMBP comes up.

Here's my question: Before buying & walking out with the computer, I want to make sure it is in good shape. I've read about how to run a diagnostics, which I would do. What else should I look for or check out to make sure that I don't have a lemon, or that the original buyer didn't somehow mess up the computer before returning it?

Any advice or help is much appreciated - thanks.

If it's an open-box item, then Best Buy should have no problem allowing you to connect it to displays or even a keyboard and mouse vis BT while you're there. Their WiFi network normally sucks because they have so much stuff connected to it, but that would be another way to do it as well.

Basically, connect as much as possible that BB will allow as far as peripherals go. As long as all the ports work and the machine powers on properly and boots within a certain amount of time based on other reviews for the same model; then I would say it should be fine.

What is the configuration of the MBA that you would be getting? Honestly, if it's only 4GB, then you should really consider it because 4GB of RAM that's not upgradeable will become a hinderance in the future as far as upgrading the OS.

 

[rmp71701]

What is the configuration of the MBA that you would be getting? Honestly, if it's only 4GB, then you should really consider it because 4GB of RAM that's not upgradeable will become a hinderance in the future as far as upgrading the OS.

Thanks - glad you brought that up. I've been on the fence about what to get. I am making the switch from an old Dell w/Windows XP. I'm talking 2006 specs, so this will be a whole new world for me, no matter what I get.

What I'd really prefer is a new base model 15" rMBP, which would run around $1800 after discounts. I've considered an older model refurb from the Apple store but after taxes in the end its not a big difference in price from the new. So $1800 is a lot of $$ for me, compared with price of MBA:

$908-$150 coupon = $758 + tax

MBA Specs: 13" Mid-2013 (most recent) base model (4 GB/128)

Problem for me is the "step-up" jusitification game I get into with myself. Goes like this: if I'm shelling out $800 for a computer, why not go ahead and pay like $1100-$1200 and get a 13" rMBP with better specs, display, future proofing, etc. But wait, I really would prefer a 15" screen, plus a machine that would do all I want and way more. But sheesh, that ends up being double of what I pay for the MBA, which I'm sure I would be just happy with - and here I have to be honest with myself about what I really would be using the computer for: simple tasks.

I don't need it for gaming, programming, or anything technical for my job. Just word processing, presentations, email, Internet, maybe some light photo/video stuff. The portability factor of MBA is appealing. But what I really like is the price. I figure even if I get 2 years out of it I could sell for a couple of hundred still (even at 4 GB RAM).

Thoughts?

 

[RedCroissant]

Thanks - glad you brought that up. I've been on the fence about what to get. I am making the switch from an old Dell w/Windows XP. I'm talking 2006 specs, so this will be a whole new world for me, no matter what I get.

What I'd really prefer is a new base model 15" rMBP, which would run around $1800 after discounts. I've considered an older model refurb from the Apple store but after taxes in the end its not a big difference in price from the new. So $1800 is a lot of $$ for me, compared with price of MBA:

$908-$150 coupon = $758 + tax

MBA Specs: 13" Mid-2013 (most recent) base model (4 GB/128)

Problem for me is the "step-up" jusitification game I get into with myself. Goes like this: if I'm shelling out $800 for a computer, why not go ahead and pay like $1100-$1200 and get a 13" rMBP with better specs, display, future proofing, etc. But wait, I really would prefer a 15" screen, plus a machine that would do all I want and way more. But sheesh, that ends up being double of what I pay for the MBA, which I'm sure I would be just happy with - and here I have to be honest with myself about what I really would be using the computer for: simple tasks.

I don't need it for gaming, programming, or anything technical for my job. Just word processing, presentations, email, Internet, maybe some light photo/video stuff. The portability factor of MBA is appealing. But what I really like is the price. I figure even if I get 2 years out of it I could sell for a couple of hundred still (even at 4 GB RAM).

Thoughts?

I totally understand that coming from an older machine makes upgrading to a new one difficult. Since you don’t game a lot or need Windows to do so, then a Mac is great. Yes, it can run Windows in Bootcamp so you can still game if you need to, but id gaming is not the primary need, then good.

Here’s my opinion on the rMBP. I think it’s great BUT I prefer the cMBP because of the I/O compatibility with other peripheries that won’t require adapters. If you travel to remote places or even to places in the US where WiFi is not the norm or standard, then you’ll need a TB-ethernet adapter. If you have any FW hard drives or FW devices then you’ll need a TB-FW adapter. If you like having your own DVDs and CDs and buying them super cheaper from places and saving quite a bit of money compared to iTunes, then you’ll need an external optical drive. Why go through the trouble and necessity of these adapters and extra external hardware when the cMBP not only has all of those I/Os included, but is also user upgradeable as well? With the rMBP(regardless of the display size) you should be considering at least 8GB RAM.

I would recommend a refurbished 15” cMBP. This way you get the Thunderbolt port, FW port, USB 3.0 ports, SD card slot, superdrive, AND the display (even though not retina) is still amazing. It also saves you money and makes it so that you can upgrade it as you desire or need to for your needs. Mavericks on my 27” iMac 3.2GHz with 16GB of RAM still uses a minimum of 3.5GB RAM with very basic tasks.

 

[rmp71701]

I totally understand that coming from an older machine makes upgrading to a new one difficult. Since you don’t game a lot or need Windows to do so, then a Mac is great. Yes, it can run Windows in Bootcamp so you can still game if you need to, but id gaming is not the primary need, then good.

Here’s my opinion on the rMBP. I think it’s great BUT I prefer the cMBP because of the I/O compatibility with other peripheries that won’t require adapters. If you travel to remote places or even to places in the US where WiFi is not the norm or standard, then you’ll need a TB-ethernet adapter. If you have any FW hard drives or FW devices then you’ll need a TB-FW adapter. If you like having your own DVDs and CDs and buying them super cheaper from places and saving quite a bit of money compared to iTunes, then you’ll need an external optical drive. Why go through the trouble and necessity of these adapters and extra external hardware when the cMBP not only has all of those I/Os included, but is also user upgradeable as well? With the rMBP(regardless of the display size) you should be considering at least 8GB RAM.

I would recommend a refurbished 15” cMBP. This way you get the Thunderbolt port, FW port, USB 3.0 ports, SD card slot, superdrive, AND the display (even though not retina) is still amazing. It also saves you money and makes it so that you can upgrade it as you desire or need to for your needs. Mavericks on my 27” iMac 3.2GHz with 16GB of RAM still uses a minimum of 3.5GB RAM with very basic tasks.

Funny you should say that. About a year ago I was getting ready to purchase a cMBP when they were going on sale a lot. Backed out of the decision and have regretted it, since I could have gotten one pretty cheap.

Do you know of any online clearance new cMBP that are good deals? (In other words, If they are selling for like $1400 or more, than I might as well get a new rMBP).

I just checked Apple refurb store and they only have one 15 cMBP and its only 4GB. $1449 + tax. Just not a good deal. Might as well get latest rMBP. (I get the education discount, so it has to be a heck of a deal in the refurb store to warrant it.)

I could go 3rd party refurb route but I start getting nervous with that, plus loss of 1 year warranty through Apple. i might consider it if there is a vendor that I don't know about that gets great recommendations.

I'm the kind of person who is really going to struggle with this decision because of so many options, and at (for me) quite a bit of $$.

Thanks for the input by the way.

 

[iamMacPerson]

I just checked Apple refurb store and they only have one 15 cMBP and its only 4GB. $1449 + tax. Just not a good deal. Might as well get latest rMBP. (I get the education discount, so it has to be a heck of a deal in the refurb store to warrant it.)

Also remember, in the cMBP, the RAM and HDD are user upgradable. The only issue is your stuck with the older Ivy Bridge architecture versus Haswell in the 2013 MBAs and late-2013 rMBPs. They also don't have other bells and whistles, like AC networking, or the Retina display.

Again, you can upgrade it so thats a big plus.

Whats nice about Apple Refurbished computers are they come with the same 1 Year Hardware, 90 Day Telephone tech support as the new computers with the option to extend it for (the 15") $350 to 3 years on both.

Also worth noting if you have an Apple Store nearby if you have a College ID from a nearby college, you are edible for a discount on anything in store. Accessories are included IIRC, and I know AppleCare is too.

The Retina will be more future proof depending on the specs. Don't go baseline though if you can avoid it, the 4GB of RAM will kill you in the future. 8 or above, 8 or above.

 

[potvkettle]

I've got the $150 off student coupon for MacBooks at Best Buy, which expires in a couple of weeks. I'm looking at getting an MBA, unless a great deal on a 13" rMBP comes up.

Here's my question: Before buying & walking out with the computer, I want to make sure it is in good shape. I've read about how to run a diagnostics, which I would do. What else should I look for or check out to make sure that I don't have a lemon, or that the original buyer didn't somehow mess up the computer before returning it?

Any advice or help is much appreciated - thanks.

Having bought a couple of Open Box items from Best Buy, I can tell you that they are subject, generally, to the same return periods and policies as most other product available from the retailer (caveat: check your local store's policies on Open Box items before purchasing). Open Box items are also subject to original manufacturer warranties. I haven't worried about a single purchase such as these, and I've not had to return one yet.

At any rate, purchase it, use it, and if you have any problems within 30 days, take it back. No harm, no foul.

 

[rmp71701]

Also remember, in the cMBP, the RAM and HDD are user upgradable. The only issue is your stuck with the older Ivy Bridge architecture versus Haswell in the 2013 MBAs and late-2013 rMBPs. They also don't have other bells and whistles, like AC networking, or the Retina display...

....The Retina will be more future proof depending on the specs. Don't go baseline though if you can avoid it, the 4GB of RAM will kill you in the future. 8 or above, 8 or above.

In the past, I've never done the upgrade route. My pattern has been to buy as much as I could afford and then ride that puppy into the ground. Again, I only use the computer for simple tasks & don't need it for the latest technical performance. This allows me to just get a new all around machine every few years, instead of continually putting money into upgrading an ever-aging machine over several years. I guess there are different schools of thought on this, depending on one's needs.

Regarding the 4GB, I very much understand the advice regarding "planning ahead" by getting 8GB. But on other threads, I keep reading that for simple tasks (which is me), 4GB is fine, even with Mavericks (based on the efficiency with how Mavericks runs). This may not be the case in 3 or 4 years, but I would be fine with buying a whole new system by then, especially if I am only paying $800 for the MBA now (I'll still try to ride the MBA into the ground, but in 3 years I'll feel like I have had my money's worth if I absolutely have to upgrade machines).

 

[iamMacPerson]

Regarding the 4GB, I very much understand the advice regarding "planning ahead" by getting 8GB. But on other threads, I keep reading that for simple tasks (which is me), 4GB is fine, even with Mavericks (based on the efficiency with how Mavericks runs). This may not be the case in 3 or 4 years, but I would be fine with buying a whole new system by then, especially if I am only paying $800 for the MBA now (I'll still try to ride the MBA into the ground, but in 3 years I'll feel like I have had my money's worth if I absolutely have to upgrade machines).

Thats true, my mentality though when I've ordered a new Mac is go big, or go home. Its up to you.

 

[rmp71701]

Having bought a couple of Open Box items from Best Buy, I can tell you that they are subject, generally, to the same return periods and policies as most other product available from the retailer (caveat: check your local store's policies on Open Box items before purchasing). Open Box items are also subject to original manufacturer warranties. I haven't worried about a single purchase such as these, and I've not had to return one yet.

At any rate, purchase it, use it, and if you have any problems within 30 days, take it back. No harm, no foul.

I am typing this reply on my iPad 4 32 GB which I got Open Box at BB in January of 2013. Picked it up for $500, which was a pretty big discount. Been very pleased with it. So I'm up for trying Open Box again.

But the nature of a MacBook vs an iPad means more possible things could be messed up with it when it was returned. I live 1.5 hours from nearest BB, so I would prefer not to have to get home and find a major issue. Hence why I was wanting to do as much as possible in store.

Another thing I thought of was purchasing and then going to Apple store to ask them to give it a good looking over, for hardware & software status/issues.

As a side note- I don't trust the Geek Squad inspection/certification process. When I bought my ipad, it still had an Apple ID registered on it from original buyer. It was supposed to have been cleared and reset. I pointed this out to the manager & she apologized and gave it to Geek Squad to clean & reset while I waited. They gave it back to me 20 min later thinking it was reset. Nope - I handed back to manager and they tried again. Still couldn't do it right. After the second time I didn't point it out to them and just left with my ipad, as I had been there an hour already. So I just took it by apple store and they reset the whole thing to like new in 5 min. Moral of the story - Geek Squad, at least at that BB, had no idea what they were doing, and I wouldn't trust any type of "certification" process they performed on a MacBook.

 

[RedCroissant]

Funny you should say that. About a year ago I was getting ready to purchase a cMBP when they were going on sale a lot. Backed out of the decision and have regretted it, since I could have gotten one pretty cheap.

Do you know of any online clearance new cMBP that are good deals? (In other words, If they are selling for like $1400 or more, than I might as well get a new rMBP).

I just checked Apple refurb store and they only have one 15 cMBP and its only 4GB. $1449 + tax. Just not a good deal. Might as well get latest rMBP. (I get the education discount, so it has to be a heck of a deal in the refurb store to warrant it.)

I could go 3rd party refurb route but I start getting nervous with that, plus loss of 1 year warranty through Apple. i might consider it if there is a vendor that I don't know about that gets great recommendations.

I'm the kind of person who is really going to struggle with this decision because of so many options, and at (for me) quite a bit of $$.

Thanks for the input by the way.

You’re welcome for the input.

That’s true that the cheapest one in the ARS is $1449 +tax. BUT you get the same warranty as a new machine as well and Apple is the one that refurbished it (with Apple-grade parts and quality check).

The other difference is (like I previously said) you can modify it yourself. True you might not want to, but with the cMBP in the refurb store, you can upgrade it to 16GB RAM, and a larger HDD or SSD. You could even remove the optical drive ad make it an external and have your own fusion drive in there AND then revert bad to the original configuration if you want.

With the rMBP, you’re stuck with what you buy.

Here are the specs comparisons as I found them

15” cMBP
2.3GHz Quad-core i7
4GB RAM
500GB HDD
Intel HD graphics 4000 AND NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M w/ 512MB GDDR5 memory
Wireless-N
Bluetooth 4.0
Thunderbolt port
FW-800 port
USB 3.0 ports (x2)
SDXC slot
superdrive
Cost - ($1,449) + tax

16GB RAM kit from OWC - $200
1TB HDD from OWC - $100
1TB SSD from OWC -$600

cost with 1TB SSD and 16GB RAM from OWC -$2,249 + tax and still cheaper than a nonuser upgradeable rMBP.

15” rMBP(top model)
2.3GHz Quad-core i7
16GB RAM
512GB SSD
Intel Iris Pro Graphics AND NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M w/ 2GB GDDR5 memory
Thunderbolt ports(x2)
HDMI port (x1)
USB 3.0 ports (x2)
802.11ac
Bluetooth 4.0
SDXC slot
Cost- ($2,599) +tax

The benefit of the dual GPU is debatable considering your computing needs. 802.11ac seems awesome, but unless you’re also buying 802.11ac accessories or using it somewhere that already has the ac standard in place, you’ll still be connecting at 802.11N speeds.

with the rMBP, you will need adapters at some point for something and possibly an external superdrive


And since there are so many options to choose from that make your decision that much more difficult, why not go with an almost equally powerful machine (based on your needs alone) that will cost you less initially and even in the long run?

 

[rmp71701]

@RedCroissant

Thanks for the breakdown of all that. Definitely worth considering. Decisions, decisions...

 

[RedCroissant]

@RedCroissant

Thanks for the breakdown of all that. Definitely worth considering. Decisions, decisions...

You're more than welcome.

When it comes down to it though, it is of course your decision (obviously). I just prefer something that I can hold onto for a while and maintain its relevance as opposed to going out and having to get something new when I could have bought the right machine at the time to last me through a few refresh cycles.

for example, I sold my early 2009 20" iMac with 8GB RAM and a 3TB HDD (which I upgraded) because I needed the money. That machine would have still been completely perfect for my needs now with my schooling, papers, research, the ability to virtualize different OS versions, compatibility with accessories that I currently own or would own in the future.

I even went through slew of PPC macs (made from 2002 to 2005) that were still relevant for the most part until I finally (this semester) ran into the need for a computer to run the current version of Flash. Otherwise, I would still be using my 20" PPC iMac 1.8GHz 2GB RAM and 320GB HDD for everything. AND it didn't have Airport or Bluetooth at all and I was relying on ethernet home plugs for internet connectivity. It also streamed all my media (which was on 2 different external HDDs) to my AppleTV3.

So believe it or not, your computing habits opens you up to quite a few different models of machine that would more than suit your needs. Good luck and have a nice day!

 

[iamMacPerson]

15” cMBP
2.3GHz Quad-core i7
4GB RAM
500GB HDD
Intel HD graphics 4000 AND NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M w/ 512MB GDDR5 memory
Wireless-N
Bluetooth 4.0
Thunderbolt port
FW-800 port
USB 3.0 ports (x2)
SDXC slot
superdrive
Cost - ($1,449) + tax

16GB RAM kit from OWC - $200
1TB HDD from OWC - $100
1TB SSD from OWC -$600

cost with 1TB SSD and 16GB RAM from OWC -$2,249 + tax and still cheaper than a nonuser upgradeable rMBP.

15” rMBP(top model)
2.3GHz Quad-core i7
16GB RAM
512GB SSD
Intel Iris Pro Graphics AND NVIDIA GeForce GT 750M w/ 2GB GDDR5 memory
Thunderbolt ports(x2)
HDMI port (x1)
USB 3.0 ports (x2)
802.11ac
Bluetooth 4.0
SDXC slot
Cost- ($2,599) +tax

@RedCroissant

Thanks for the breakdown of all that. Definitely worth considering. Decisions, decisions...

DON'T LOOK AT THE SPEC SHEET!!!!!!!!!!! The processors are the same speed, same name and everything, except the architecture is different. The rMBP has the newer, more powerful, and way more power efficient Haswell architecture. Meanwhile, the oMBP uses the Ivy Bridge architecture which is slightly older, not as powerful, and not as power efficient. Also, the rMBP uses the faster Flash Memory via a PCIe connector. The oMBP uses SATA, much slower.

Before you make any decisions, check out the Geekbench browser and search for the specs of the machines you are considering.

Also, let me ask you this, when was the last time you have needed to use FireWire, Ethernet, or your Optical Drive?

Also, the "1TB" (960GB) SSD from OWC is $748. Its also only SATA II, which runs at 3Gbps. You would benefit greatly from using a SATA III (6Gbps) drive instead. The biggest one OWC has is 480GB and is $340.

 

[RedCroissant]

DON'T LOOK AT THE SPEC SHEET!!!!!!!!!!! The processors are the same speed, same name and everything, except the architecture is different. The rMBP has the newer, more powerful, and way more power efficient Haswell architecture. Meanwhile, the oMBP uses the Ivy Bridge architecture which is slightly older, not as powerful, and not as power efficient. Also, the rMBP uses the faster Flash Memory via a PCIe connector. The oMBP uses SATA, much slower.

Before you make any decisions, check out the Geekbench browser and search for the specs of the machines you are considering.

Also, let me ask you this, when was the last time you have needed to use FireWire, Ethernet, or your Optical Drive?

Also, the "1TB" (960GB) SSD from OWC is $748. Its also only SATA II, which runs at 3Gbps. You would benefit greatly from using a SATA III (6Gbps) drive instead. The biggest one OWC has is 480GB and is $340.

Yes, Look at the spec sheet. Here’s the reason…the OP is going to use it for basic tasks and the milliseconds of speed increase won’t matter for those basic tasks. The power efficiency increase that you’re talking about is also dependent not he types of things the OP will be doing with the machine. And basic tasks is still the verdict. Now, if the OP gets into coding or rendering or HD video editing and processing..then sure, go with the newer Haswell. Otherwise the slightly older Ive Bridge technology is still a great choice. In fact, the only real reason to go with Haswell is the power efficiency. It’s not WAY more powerful. It is more powerful which is why manufacturers went with a lower clock speed on some CPUs that end up giving comparable performance (which is also why the battery life is extended).

True, SATA is slower than PCIe. However, that goes back down to the milliseconds position.

Was the optical drive question directed at me? If so, I use it almost daily. Yes, almost daily. CDs are WAY cheaper than albums purchased either on Amazon or through iTunes. DVDs are also cheaper than videos purchased through iTunes. Bargain bins are awesome for both formats. I also use an external super drive to install software onto my PPC Macs and will continue to do so until I no longer have any. As for right now I am giving away 3 of them but keeping my “new” iBook G4.

I have my iMac connected via ethernet still using home plugs for my internet. My WiFI is good and the speeds are comparable, but the ethernet connection still seems to be more stable than WiFI at this point. I also have a Airport extreme base station from 2009 so 802.11ac is irrelevant.

I actually had to buy a Thunderbolt-FW adapter so that I could diagnose any issues with my PPC macs, use disk utility to check for errors and repair permissions, and then finally reformat and reinstall the OS on 2 iMac G5s and an iBook G3.

AND if I find a good FW enclosure on the market(CL or eBAY) then I would buy it because FW 800 is still pretty fast and as of right now Thunderbolt externals are too pricey.

The 1TB SSD that I was talking about was the 1.0TB Samsung 840 EVO series SSD 2.5” SATA 9.5mm 6GB/s. True, the formatted capacity is lower (930GB), but read/write speeds of up to 540MB/s and 520MBs is still very good for SATA. And with a 3 year warranty on top of that, I’d say it was a pretty awesome deal and a good idea. Also, with a SATA drive as a spare, you can use an external dock or enclosure to format it an exchange it whenever you want or need to.

 

[iamMacPerson]

Yes, Look at the spec sheet. Here’s the reason…the OP is going to use it for basic tasks and the milliseconds of speed increase won’t matter for those basic tasks. The power efficiency increase that you’re talking about is also dependent not he types of things the OP will be doing with the machine. And basic tasks is still the verdict. Now, if the OP gets into coding or rendering or HD video editing and processing..then sure, go with the newer Haswell. Otherwise the slightly older Ive Bridge technology is still a great choice. In fact, the only real reason to go with Haswell is the power efficiency. It’s not WAY more powerful. It is more powerful which is why manufacturers went with a lower clock speed on some CPUs that end up giving comparable performance (which is also why the battery life is extended).

True, SATA is slower than PCIe. However, that goes back down to the milliseconds position.

Was the optical drive question directed at me? If so, I use it almost daily. Yes, almost daily. CDs are WAY cheaper than albums purchased either on Amazon or through iTunes. DVDs are also cheaper than videos purchased through iTunes. Bargain bins are awesome for both formats. I also use an external super drive to install software onto my PPC Macs and will continue to do so until I no longer have any. As for right now I am giving away 3 of them but keeping my “new” iBook G4.

I have my iMac connected via ethernet still using home plugs for my internet. My WiFI is good and the speeds are comparable, but the ethernet connection still seems to be more stable than WiFI at this point. I also have a Airport extreme base station from 2009 so 802.11ac is irrelevant.

I actually had to buy a Thunderbolt-FW adapter so that I could diagnose any issues with my PPC macs, use disk utility to check for errors and repair permissions, and then finally reformat and reinstall the OS on 2 iMac G5s and an iBook G3.

AND if I find a good FW enclosure on the market(CL or eBAY) then I would buy it because FW 800 is still pretty fast and as of right now Thunderbolt externals are too pricey.

The 1TB SSD that I was talking about was the 1.0TB Samsung 840 EVO series SSD 2.5” SATA 9.5mm 6GB/s. True, the formatted capacity is lower (930GB), but read/write speeds of up to 540MB/s and 520MBs is still very good for SATA. And with a 3 year warranty on top of that, I’d say it was a pretty awesome deal and a good idea. Also, with a SATA drive as a spare, you can use an external dock or enclosure to format it an exchange it whenever you want or need to.

I never said Haswell was way more powerful. I said it was more powerful, but way more power efficient versus Ivy Bridge. Now while Ivy Bridge won't be dropped anytime soon, Haswell will be supported for longer since it is a newer technology.

From my understanding, SATA speed is no where near the speed of PCIe. Now for what the OP will be doing, SATA III would be overkill, but compare the performance with BlackMagic Disk Test. With my old non-Retina MacBook Pro 15" 2011 (Sandy Bridge), SATA III and an Apple SSD, I got between 200 and 285 Mbps write and read (give or take). With the PCIe SSD, I get between 700 and 730 Mbps read and write. For me, this is a huge advantage because I video edit a lot for YouTube.

Actually, the Optical Drive, Ethernet and FireWire question was directed at the OP, but whatever. I buy all my music from iTunes nowadays since I normally only pick a handful of songs from an album and pay the $1.29 a song.

Most people nowadays just use WiFi. I honestly can't remember the last primary setup I saw still using ethernet.

Ok, yes, I do have a Thunderbolt to FireWire adapter on hand to either A) access data on some older drives without using USB 2.0 or B) pop some older Macs in to TDM and access files or format drives or test them. It varies.

I agree, Thunderbolt is still too expensive, but nowadays USB 3.0 is faster then FW800 by a wide margin. FW800 maxes out at, well, 800 Mbps. USB 3, however, maxes at 5Gbps. This makes a huge difference. I used to use a LaCie Rugged with FW800 as my backup drive for time machine. It would take a few hours to back up my SSD, which had around 70GB. I now have 50GB and my WD My Passport for Mac USB 3 model backs up the drive in 30 minutes or less.

Regarding the Samsung SSD, I'm considering a 120GB Evo for my Mac Pro so I know they are great, and really fast drives. However, when you original posted you said OWC SSD, so I based my search off that.

 

[RedCroissant]

I never said Haswell was way more powerful. I said it was more powerful, but way more power efficient versus Ivy Bridge. Now while Ivy Bridge won't be dropped anytime soon, Haswell will be supported for longer since it is a newer technology.

From my understanding, SATA speed is no where near the speed of PCIe. Now for what the OP will be doing, SATA III would be overkill, but compare the performance with BlackMagic Disk Test. With my old non-Retina MacBook Pro 15" 2011 (Sandy Bridge), SATA III and an Apple SSD, I got between 200 and 285 Mbps write and read (give or take). With the PCIe SSD, I get between 700 and 730 Mbps read and write. For me, this is a huge advantage because I video edit a lot for YouTube.

Actually, the Optical Drive, Ethernet and FireWire question was directed at the OP, but whatever. I buy all my music from iTunes nowadays since I normally only pick a handful of songs from an album and pay the $1.29 a song.

Most people nowadays just use WiFi. I honestly can't remember the last primary setup I saw still using ethernet.

Ok, yes, I do have a Thunderbolt to FireWire adapter on hand to either A) access data on some older drives without using USB 2.0 or B) pop some older Macs in to TDM and access files or format drives or test them. It varies.

I agree, Thunderbolt is still too expensive, but nowadays USB 3.0 is faster then FW800 by a wide margin. FW800 maxes out at, well, 800 Mbps. USB 3, however, maxes at 5Gbps. This makes a huge difference. I used to use a LaCie Rugged with FW800 as my backup drive for time machine. It would take a few hours to back up my SSD, which had around 70GB. I now have 50GB and my WD My Passport for Mac USB 3 model backs up the drive in 30 minutes or less.

Regarding the Samsung SSD, I'm considering a 120GB Evo for my Mac Pro so I know they are great, and really fast drives. However, when you original posted you said OWC SSD, so I based my search off that.

True that you didn’t say it was way more powerful. I saw that on the power efficiency and added that. And yes it will be supported longer, but if I can have a PPC Mac that has lasted more than 12 years without the CPU crashing and still be fairly useful (my iBook G3 was one of the machines that I used when I was attending Grand Canyon University). And no, don’t apply there because I was very much NOT impressed with the courses and withdrew (with an “A”) from the Master’s program I enrolled in.

SATA IS nowhere near PCIe speed. There is no doubt about that in my mind at all. You were absolutely write, but I think that’s only important when it comes to professional work such as you do.

Yeah, well my optical drives normally get quite a bit of use. Depending on how powerful my machine at the time is, I use handbrake to encode my DVDs and my kids’ movies so that I can ad everything to my iTunes library. Otherwise, I’d have to use the jet engine that I own(an original backwards compatible Ps3) to play DVDS, and that’s only fun at first until the fans start to compete with the audio coming out of the TV. I get entire CDs for the price of one song on iTunes and sometimes I can get 3/4 movies for the price of one on iTunes. When that changes or when DVDs disappear, thenI guess I’ll rely solely on downloadable content. Until then, I can honestly say that I have saved more than $1k buying the actual discs over the iTunes store content.

I DID NOT want to buy an adapter, but when it was time to upgrade I bought the newest iMac and love it. I was going to buy a refurbished model, but getting a high capacity HDD into the refurb models was too expensive and that modification would have resulted in it being the same price as this new one, so I decided to forget that option and just buy the adapter. I can justify it better though because I’m only using it at home. It’s the same justification that I use for the external superdrive. If I was going to buy a laptop, there’s no way I would have bought that separately.

Yeah, USB 3.0 is still way faster than FW800, but those drives are also more expensive than the older FW drives. And from my understanding, that speed of 5Gbps is for the entire USB bus (which splits the top speed depending on how many ports and how many devices are attached. And correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the trackpad and other things also require the use of the usb host controller which also results in decreased speed across the board? maybe I’m wrong but I thought that’s how it worked.

I also have always thought that each FW port had a dedicated bus for that particular port which pseudo guaranteed a constant rate of transfer from the computer to the attached FW device. That might have only been the case for the PM G5 Quad that I owned, but I did notice that with at least my iMacs and iBooks that a FW400 device transferred information faster than a usb 2.0 device.

and Hours for a 70GB backup? That sucks!

Good point. I meant to type “from OWC” but then I guess that would still be ambiguous as well.

And do you still have that LaCie rugged?

 

[evancg]

@RedCroissant

Thanks for the breakdown of all that. Definitely worth considering. Decisions, decisions...

To answer your original, posted question: Don't let the open box scare you. BB return policy on open box should be the same as items purchased new (as always, double check with the sales staff). If anything, you should feel less guilty returning an open box item - heck, you probably weren't the first to return that exact same item!

So if you do decide on a Macbook, and it's open box, just take it home, update it, hook up everything you can, install your favorite programs, play a few of your favorite games, make sure the display looks right, color is accurate, all the keys on the keyboard work and feel right, check both the speakers, speed up the fans, and make sure there aren't any major physical defects or a flimsy hinge.

To address the current threads discussions: I've been going through some of the same stuff (juggling from the 13 cMBP to the 13 rMBP to the 15 rMBP, or the Early 15 rMBP)...seriously, it can be the stuff nightmares are made of! (Yes, first world problems, I know).

Two quick notes:

1. I'm currently typing this on a 15" rMBP I got open box from Best Buy (with the student coupon - great deal, but still so expensive...). I've been putting it through the paces and so far haven't come across any issues. I plan on testing the USB and HDMI ports soon. Don't have a way to test the thunderbolt ports unfortunately (though I may buy an ethernet adapter so that may give me a chance).

2. Since there is a lot of talk about considerations, here are a few things that I really focused on for a bit:

a. Retaining value - since MacBooks retain their value, even though it's a substantial investment now, there's a good chance when you've outgrown your current model you can sell it and upgrade for at a reasonable cost.

b. Usable screen space! I was considering the cMBP because of previously mentioned reasons - less expensive than the rMBP and I could upgrade the RAM myself (I don't think 4GB is enough for my purposes). The problem is that resolution. 1280x800 is just too low for what I do. Even the MBA has a slight advantage at 1440x900. The best part of the rMBP was the ability to scale up to 1440x900 and still be perfectly legible (or in the case of the 15" rMBP, scale (up to 1650x1050 and be perfectly legible).

Sorry to add more to the thought process, but I've been dealing with something similar for weeks so I thought I'd chime in.

 

[RedCroissant]

To answer your original, posted question: Don't let the open box scare you. BB return policy on open box should be the same as items purchased new (as always, double check with the sales staff). If anything, you should feel less guilty returning an open box item - heck, you probably weren't the first to return that exact same item!

So if you do decide on a Macbook, and it's open box, just take it home, update it, hook up everything you can, install your favorite programs, play a few of your favorite games, make sure the display looks right, color is accurate, all the keys on the keyboard work and feel right, check both the speakers, speed up the fans, and make sure there aren't any major physical defects or a flimsy hinge.

To address the current threads discussions: I've been going through some of the same stuff (juggling from the 13 cMBP to the 13 rMBP to the 15 rMBP, or the Early 15 rMBP)...seriously, it can be the stuff nightmares are made of! (Yes, first world problems, I know).

Two quick notes:

1. I'm currently typing this on a 15" rMBP I got open box from Best Buy (with the student coupon - great deal, but still so expensive...). I've been putting it through the paces and so far haven't come across any issues. I plan on testing the USB and HDMI ports soon. Don't have a way to test the thunderbolt ports unfortunately (though I may buy an ethernet adapter so that may give me a chance).

2. Since there is a lot of talk about considerations, here are a few things that I really focused on for a bit:

a. Retaining value - since MacBooks retain their value, even though it's a substantial investment now, there's a good chance when you've outgrown your current model you can sell it and upgrade for at a reasonable cost.

b. Usable screen space! I was considering the cMBP because of previously mentioned reasons - less expensive than the rMBP and I could upgrade the RAM myself (I don't think 4GB is enough for my purposes). The problem is that resolution. 1280x800 is just too low for what I do. Even the MBA has a slight advantage at 1440x900. The best part of the rMBP was the ability to scale up to 1440x900 and still be perfectly legible (or in the case of the 15" rMBP, scale (up to 1650x1050 and be perfectly legible).

Sorry to add more to the thought process, but I've been dealing with something similar for weeks so I thought I'd chime in.

Yeah, the screen real estate for the rMBP is double what it is for the cMBP (unless you upgrade it with a HI-res display which brings it to 1680x1050). So I agree with that position.

I understand the thought of retaining value for the rMBP (if it’s maxed out on the components that cannot be upgraded by the user). But if it’s a base model or even a model with only 8GB RAM, then it’s resale value in my opinion goes down due to the lack of sufficient memory to sustain its continued use for the next few years. Unless of course it’s kept on the same OS in order to continue taking advantage of the memory included with the original purchase.

Mavericks uses on average between 4-5GB RAM for what I think are basic tasks. Right now I am running iTunes and home sharing, Activity monitor, textedit, system preferences, Safari with 2 tabs open, and Mail. That basic usage is using 4.65GB RAM right now. Textedit, Activity Monitor and System Preferences together only use about 45MB of RAM.

So the trick here is to max out the RAM on whichever machine is purchased so that its usability is maintained for a few years. Any amount of RAM less than the 16GB for the rMBP would not provide that and would eventually become a bad investment if it was intended to be sold at a reasonable loss to support an upgrade.

 

[evancg]

Yeah, the screen real estate for the rMBP is double what it is for the cMBP (unless you upgrade it with a HI-res display which brings it to 1680x1050). So I agree with that position.

I understand the thought of retaining value for the rMBP (if it’s maxed out on the components that cannot be upgraded by the user). But if it’s a base model or even a model with only 8GB RAM, then it’s resale value in my opinion goes down due to the lack of sufficient memory to sustain its continued use for the next few years. Unless of course it’s kept on the same OS in order to continue taking advantage of the memory included with the original purchase.

Mavericks uses on average between 4-5GB RAM for what I think are basic tasks. Right now I am running iTunes and home sharing, Activity monitor, textedit, system preferences, Safari with 2 tabs open, and Mail. That basic usage is using 4.65GB RAM right now. Textedit, Activity Monitor and System Preferences together only use about 45MB of RAM.

So the trick here is to max out the RAM on whichever machine is purchased so that its usability is maintained for a few years. Any amount of RAM less than the 16GB for the rMBP would not provide that and would eventually become a bad investment if it was intended to be sold at a reasonable loss to support an upgrade.

I do agree getting as much RAM as possible is ideal, but based on current pricing, if you wind up with a heavily discounted Macbook with 4GB or 8GB, I still think you'll find sufficient resale value down the road. With the number of non-upgradable Macbooks Apple is selling right now with only 4GB, I can't imagine the memory requirements for OSX spiking over the next couple of years, and it seems like there's always a market for reasonably priced used Mac's.

 

[iamMacPerson]

And do you still have that LaCie rugged?

You do make some good points, but it really comes down to how much you want to spend up front. I always order everything from Apple at once so its all covered under warranty.

Oh, and yes, I still have the Rugged.

 

[RedCroissant]

You do make some good points, but it really comes down to how much you want to spend up front. I always order everything from Apple at once so its all covered under warranty.

Oh, and yes, I still have the Rugged.

For me, I want to only spend what is absolutely necessary to get what I know that I will absolutely use. I was originally going to get a refurbished 21.5" iMac with the superdrive, but those ran out pretty quickly. Then I was going to get a refurb 21.5" w/out the optical drive but buy a high capacity HDD and get that installed. That turned out to be prohibitively expensive and why I decided instead to go with the iMac that I now own (the one in my signature line).

I would normally do that as well, but as long as the other items purchased through 3rd parties also have warranties, then I would say the bases are still covered and if that saves money in the long run to have a machine that competes very well with the more upgraded and more recent machine for less money, then that's what I would do.

It's sad but I'm still regretting ever selling my early 2009 iMac. Oh well.

Oh, and I just received my LaCie rugged 16GB USB3.0 flash drive yesterday and it is very nice! The speed is pretty awesome considering I transferred a 1GB .dmg in less than 10 seconds. Pretty awesome.

 

[akwarner]

You do realize the $150 coupon for students does not apply to open box units right? It is either or. Now with the various sales that BB has been having on new units and the coupon which can be used on top of that, I've found that sometimes the new unit pricing beats the open box (but not always). The one concern with open box to me is that the warranty starts from the first time the unit was sold so it may already have used up a month of more of your one year warranty. I still buy them though if the price reduction is significant enough. With the warranty and the BB return policy, I don't worry about testing in the store, I do my full barrage of tests when I get home. I would then return it if necessary but I don't remember ever having to so far.

Remember to also check Apple refurbs on the online Apple store. Those units do come with a full one year warranty and might beat the BB pricing or not.

A.

I've got the $150 off student coupon for MacBooks at Best Buy, which expires in a couple of weeks. I'm looking at getting an MBA, unless a great deal on a 13" rMBP comes up.

Here's my question: Before buying & walking out with the computer, I want to make sure it is in good shape. I've read about how to run a diagnostics, which I would do. What else should I look for or check out to make sure that I don't have a lemon, or that the original buyer didn't somehow mess up the computer before returning it?

Any advice or help is much appreciated - thanks.

 

[evancg]

You do realize the $150 coupon for students does not apply to open box units right? It is either or. Now with the various sales that BB has been having on new units and the coupon which can be used on top of that, I've found that sometimes the new unit pricing beats the open box (but not always). The one concern with open box to me is that the warranty starts from the first time the unit was sold so it may already have used up a month of more of your one year warranty. I still buy them though if the price reduction is significant enough. With the warranty and the BB return policy, I don't worry about testing in the store, I do my full barrage of tests when I get home. I would then return it if necessary but I don't remember ever having to so far.

Remember to also check Apple refurbs on the online Apple store. Those units do come with a full one year warranty and might beat the BB pricing or not.

A.

The student coupon DOES work on open box. It specifically excludes Clearance but makes no mention of open box. Some BB employees claim it doesn't apply to open box, but the coupon scans with no special intervention or approval required. It just works.

Additionally, if iWork or the warranty has already been activated, in many cases people have been successful in scanning and submitting a copy of the receipt showing proof of purchase to reset the warranty and get a new iWork licrnse.

 

[rmp71701]

The student coupon DOES work on open box. It specifically excludes Clearance but makes no mention of open box. Some BB employees claim it doesn't apply to open box, but the coupon scans with no special intervention or approval required. It just works.

Additionally, if iWork or the warranty has already been activated, in many cases people have been successful in scanning and submitting a copy of the receipt showing proof of purchase to reset the warranty and get a new iWork licrnse.

Ill have to say I havent tried it yet but based on the experience of others who have posted here re: their use of the coupon, it apparently works for MacBooks but not for any other machine, according to the specifics of the fine print. It does not work on clearance items however.

I can also confirm that Apple will reset the warranty on open box if you provide a copy of receipt, based on my own experience in the past with open box.