Need help re: Apps after Archive & Install

[djcream]

Hi All!

I had to do an Archive & Install when my mac pro wouldn't startup. Applecare didn't bother to alert me that doing this would mean I'd have to reinstall all of my 3rd party apps. Ugh and double ughh. I have about 99 3rd party apps to get reinstalled.

My question is - I have a Carbon Copy Clone of my main HD on an external drive I made a few months ago, with most of my apps on it. Would I be able to somehow use that to reinstate my apps?

If not, is there any way around having to reinstall them one by one?

Considering I have this CCC, not to mention up to date Time Machine backups, I'm hoping there is an easier way. If there isn't I'll have to wonder why I've bothered to do all this backing up...

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks!
dj

P.S. I'm on a Mac Pro 2008 w/ OS X 10.5.1.

 

[skybolt]

I know this doesn't help, but doing an Archive and Install (if you chose to preserve users, etc.) should not have tossed your apps or anything else. Are you SURE you did an A&I, and not an erase and install? How, exactly did you do your install? From the disks that came with your computer? From a stand-alone copy of the OS? What buttons did you click (or not click) during installation?

 

[merl1n]

Some Applications install files in other areas of the OS like /System and /Library. Doing an Archive/Install replaces these directories and because of this, break some applications.

If you have a current TM backups, the easiest thing to do would be to boot off the Leopard DVD and stop when you select English. Go to the Utilities Menu and select Disk Utility - Erase your disk. Quit DU and then select a TM restore. also from the Utilities Menu.

This will do a full restore of your disk as of the latest TM backup. However, if you had some corruption that prevented you from starting up to begin with, it may be in that backup. You may want to select a TM backup date when your Mac was in a "known good state".

 

[djcream]

I know this doesn't help, but doing an Archive and Install (if you chose to preserve users, etc.) should not have tossed your apps or anything else. Are you SURE you did an A&I, and not an erase and install? How, exactly did you do your install? From the disks that came with your computer? From a stand-alone copy of the OS? What buttons did you click (or not click) during installation?

I thought so too, but the peeps at Applecare have a different story. I absolutely did an Archive & Install, and "preserve user & network settings" was definitely checked. I did all this while on the phone with Apple. They weren't at all surprised that I lost my third party apps through this process. I did it from the discs, and I am left with a "previous system" folder, so that insures it was an archive & install not an erase & install right?

Actually, I didn't "lose" my apps - they are all in the "previous system" folder. I tried dragging some into my applications folder but that didn't work.

 

[IJ Reilly]

If you did an Archive and Install, which it certainly seems you have, then it should not break all, but only some, applications. Are you certain that none of them are working?

 

[djcream]

Some Applications install files in other areas of the OS like /System and /Library. Doing an Archive/Install replaces these directories and because of this, break some applications.

If you have a current TM backups, the easiest thing to do would be to boot off the Leopard DVD and stop when you select English. Go to the Utilities Menu and select Disk Utility - Erase your disk. Quit DU and then select a TM restore. also from the Utilities Menu.

This will do a full restore of your disk as of the latest TM backup. However, if you had some corruption that prevented you from starting up to begin with, it may be in that backup. You may want to select a TM backup date when your Mac was in a "known good state".

Does a TM restore definitely restore all your apps for sure? If so, then i will do that, unless there is a way to restore only the apps? I've already restored my user stuff I hate to go all the way around again.

thanks
dj

dj

 

[djcream]

If you did an Archive and Install, which it certainly seems you have, then it should not break all, but only some, applications. Are you certain that none of them are working?

The only apps in the main applications folder after the A&I are Apple's. All the other apps are in the "previous system" folder. I just called Applecare again and all they can say is that "we can't guarantee your applications will be intact after an archive & install", but some of the documents I've read clearly say they will be intact, while others say you will have to reinstall them for them to work properly. It's all so indigestible for something that should be so basic.

At any rate, thanks for your feedback.
dj

 

[IJ Reilly]

Applications in the Previous System folder? That doesn't sound at all right to me. Then again, I've never reinstalled, so I'm not familiar with the options.

 

[merl1n]

Does a TM restore definitely restore all your apps for sure? If so, then i will do that, unless there is a way to restore only the apps? I've already restored my user stuff I hate to go all the way around again.

thanks
dj

dj

That all depends on how much free space is left on your TM Drive. If you were getting low on free disk space, TM would start deleting the oldest monthly backups to free space. If you have plenty of space still available, then nothing should have been deleted. In that case, a TM restore would work fine.

I have done it twice and I was very impressed with the results. Everything was intact and I did not have to re-install any of my apps.

 

[IJ Reilly]

What about the issue of applications in the Previous System folder? I've never heard of this happening.

 

[merl1n]

What about the issue of applications in the Previous System folder? I've never heard of this happening.

Either have I. No apps should be in the Previous System Folder.

 

[hulugu]

What about the issue of applications in the Previous System folder? I've never heard of this happening.

Couldn't he just move the applications from the previous system folder to the new folder?
Most application files will come with the move and will install wherever they're supposed to be.

 

[djcream]

That all depends on how much free space is left on your TM Drive. If you were getting low on free disk space, TM would start deleting the oldest monthly backups to free space. If you have plenty of space still available, then nothing should have been deleted. In that case, a TM restore would work fine.

I have done it twice and I was very impressed with the results. Everything was intact and I did not have to re-install any of my apps.

Thanks but sorry I don't understand how free space or lack of it would effect restoring apps from TM. As I have been backing up with TM for some months, yes, it's pretty full - 922 gigs used out of 931. There are full backups on the TM drive of my main drive and 2 other drives as well. When TM deletes stuff it still keeps several complete backups of all my HD's as far as I can tell.

To my point: are you saying I can restore JUST MY APPS from TM? If so, how would I do this, or better yet, where are the good DETAILED TM info docs that could guide me? ANyone?

dj

Either have I. No apps should be in the Previous System Folder.

OK, but why not? If you do want to "archive" your stuff, doesn't that include your applications? Where else would they be if not in the previous system folder after the A&I?

There wasn't anything saved from my system after the A & I except for what was in the "previous system" folder. From the apple docs i've read, I think I understand that this is the "archive" part of the A & I.

 

[hulugu]

OK, but why not? If you do want to "archive" your stuff, doesn't that include your applications? Where else would they be if not in the previous system folder after the A&I?

There wasn't anything saved from my system after the A & I except for what was in the "previous system" folder. From the apple docs i've read, I think I understand that this is the "archive" part of the A & I.

I'm trying to remember the last time I did A&I, and I believe you can just move whatever you want from the previous folder to the new one. Again, applications are (for the most part) bundles of all the files you need and the application should on opening, install all the files it needs wherever they're supposed to be. Some applications have files that litter System and the Library, but most of this should come with the .app file or be recreated.

Not everything will work this way, but between this, a backup, or the original software disks (downloads) you should be able to build your system back.

Primary lesson: when fiddling with the OS on any computer, back everything up on a separate drive.

I think the one caveat may be moving applications from a PPC to an Intel machine. I did this with the Migration Assistant and I had a host of problems.

 

[djcream]

Couldn't he just move the applications from the previous system folder to the new folder?
Most application files will come with the move and will install wherever they're supposed to be.

I tried that with some apps - it works for some but not for most. For instance, all of the apps I have that put plugins into a plugin folder (not to mention the license files, serials, invisible files etc..have about 80 of them) do not work just by dragging the application from previous systems folder to main applications folder. they actually have to be reinstalled one by one.

Unless there is an actual point to TM where I could really "restore" my system to the way it was before the A &I, then i'll have to do this.

Isn't there a simple way to get this done on a $3000 machine with regular, constant TM backups?

If not then can someone tell me what the point of TM is? I'm sure I could find a much better use for a 1 terabyte HD.

Not everything will work this way, but between this, a backup, or the original software disks (downloads) you should be able to build your system back.

Primary lesson: when fiddling with the OS on any computer, back everything up on a separate drive.
.

Yep, but I'm trying to avoid taking all my free time for the next couple of months to get all the apps reinstalled - I know I can eventually get them all back - it's a matter of doing it a little more elegantly than piece by piece if possible.

I learned that primary lesson a long time ago, thus: Time Machine. Seperate drive. Am I missing something?

 

[hulugu]

I tried that with some apps - it works for some but not for most. For instance, all of the apps I have that put plugins into a plugin folder (not to mention the license files, serials, invisible files etc..have about 80 of them) do not work just by dragging the application from previous systems folder to main applications folder. they actually have to be reinstalled one by one.

Unless there is an actual point to TM where I could really "restore" my system to the way it was before the A &I, then i'll have to do this.

Isn't there a simple way to get this done on a $3000 machine with regular, constant TM backups?

If not then can someone tell me what the point of TM is? I'm sure I could find a much better use for a 1 terabyte HD.

Hmmm.

The TM backup should be just like a Carbon Copy clone, except of course a CC backup will provide a bootable version of the system in which case you could just boot from the drive.

Could you go back, take the Carbon Copy image, and then use the TM backup to bring across newer files?

Or, can't you just bring the TM backup across without doing A&I? I think A&I is the problem because you've essentially created two system files. See here.

Now, the last way I can think of to fix this is to figure out where all those plugins live and bring them over to the new system folder, but this may be labor intensive.

BTW, my comment about backups wasn't directed at you specifically, just more of a comment on how troublesome these can be even with good backup software. I've had problems with Retrospect that are similar in scope.

 

[djcream]

Hmmm.

The TM backup should be just like a Carbon Copy clone, except of course a CC backup will provide a bootable version of the system in which case you could just boot from the drive.

Could you go back, take the Carbon Copy image, and then use the TM backup to bring across newer files?

Or, can't you just bring the TM backup across without doing A&I? I think A&I is the problem because you've essentially created two system files. See here.

Now, the last way I can think of to fix this is to figure out where all those plugins live and bring them over to the new system folder, but this may be labor intensive.

BTW, my comment about backups wasn't directed at you specifically, just more of a comment on how troublesome these can be even with good backup software. I've had problems with Retrospect that are similar in scope.

Thanks! I spoke to my Apple tech again today & he said that in fact we *did not* preserve settings in the A&I, in order to avoid carrying over a system problem or something like that (sorry but I ain't no techie). He also said that the reason he didn't recommend a TM restore is that it would take 1 1/2 - 2 hrs and that his 15 minute way of restoring my user folder was faster, until he found out that I had all these applications to reinstall. So what I think I will do now is a TM restore which is basically like an erase & install. Sound ok?

Thanks for your help!

 

[hulugu]

Thanks! I spoke to my Apple tech again today & he said that in fact we *did not* preserve settings in the A&I, in order to avoid carrying over a system problem or something like that (sorry but I ain't no techie). He also said that the reason he didn't recommend a TM restore is that it would take 1 1/2 - 2 hrs and that his 15 minute way of restoring my user folder was faster, until he found out that I had all these applications to reinstall. So what I think I will do now is a TM restore which is basically like an erase & install. Sound ok?

Thanks for your help!

That's what I would do, because you'll bring across everything including those weird little hidden files that hide in user/library/ and system/library and your recent emails, iTunes ratings, etc.

I haven't done a TM restore yet, but I've done a Carbon Copy restore and everything can back in the most recent state (I did that to move to a bigger HD).

 

[djcream]

That's what I would do, because you'll bring across everything including those weird little hidden files that hide in user/library/ and system/library and your recent emails, iTunes ratings, etc.

I haven't done a TM restore yet, but I've done a Carbon Copy restore and everything can back in the most recent state (I did that to move to a bigger HD).

Did the TM restore which went well - everything seems perfectly normal - yes some apps are broken but most are not so far. Had to reauthorize some plugins etc, but all in all a success & a huge time-saver.

Thanks for all your help!
dj

 

[hulugu]

Did the TM restore which went well - everything seems perfectly normal - yes some apps are broken but most are not so far. Had to reauthorize some plugins etc, but all in all a success & a huge time-saver.

Thanks for all your help!
dj

Which applications are still broken?

Are you getting specific errors or is the app just behaving oddly?

Good to hear that TM actually works as advertised (mostly). I'm curious about which applications are still wayward.

 

[djcream]

Which applications are still broken?

Are you getting specific errors or is the app just behaving oddly?

Good to hear that TM actually works as advertised (mostly). I'm curious about which applications are still wayward.

Actually, it may not be that they're "broken", I only use that term to mean they're not in a ready usable state like they were before the crash - namely they had to be reauthorized, so somewhere along the restore that got messed up.

I had to reauth some Native Instruments plugins like Kontakt, and had to reauth Ivory, Trilogy, Atmosphere. I'm still going through them all slowly so not sure exactly which ones are effected. Thankfully, I haven't actually had to reinstall anything from scratch.

cheers!
dj

 

[hulugu]

Actually, it may not be that they're "broken", I only use that term to mean they're not in a ready usable state like they were before the crash - namely they had to be reauthorized, so somewhere along the restore that got messed up.

I had to reauth some Native Instruments plugins like Kontakt, and had to reauth Ivory, Trilogy, Atmosphere. I'm still going through them all slowly so not sure exactly which ones are effected. Thankfully, I haven't actually had to reinstall anything from scratch.

cheers!
dj

Interesting. Okay, that's what I was wondering, if the app was actually broken or something else; I didn't think about authorizations. That happens with A&I too.
Although some applications are just fine.