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Need to backup the Powerbook Wallstreet PDQ G3 hard drive..

iluvmacs99

iluvmacs99

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Apr 9, 2019
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I am looking on a way to clone my Book Wallstreet G3 2Gb hard drive which has OS 9.2.2 to a network drive on my PowerBook G4 DSLD. Do I just drag and drop the Wallstreet hard drive into the network drive on my G4 DSLD? Would that become bootable later on if I copy this drive back to a new IDE drive?

I am just looking for a way to make sure I have a backup copy of my Wallstreet so when and if the internal drive goes kaput, I would have a bootable backupso I can restore my wallstreet back quickly.

Thanks!
 
iluvmacs99 said:
I am looking on a way to clone my Book Wallstreet G3 2Gb hard drive which has OS 9.2.2 to a network drive on my PowerBook G4 DSLD. Do I just drag and drop the Wallstreet hard drive into the network drive on my G4 DSLD? Would that become bootable later on if I copy this drive back to a new IDE drive?
I am just looking for a way to make sure I have a backup copy of my Wallstreet so when and if the internal drive goes kaput, I would have a bootable backupso I can restore my wallstreet back quickly.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Very interesting question! Makes me curious ...
How are you going to copy the Wallstreet's internal drive to the PB-G4 - there's neither FW nor USB?
And what do you mean by "network drive".
As far as I've understood how os9 works, once there's a full copy of the Wallstreet's drive on another drive/partition, you'll have to copy that to the new replacement drive but neet to "bless" the system-folder to make it bootable. I haven't ever done something like that by now and need to redo the websearch about the "how-to", but I'm sure, there will be someone here for more help.

I wonder, if a PCMCIA-Card with a CF-Card would be a decent bootable drive-copy.
 
bobesch said:
Very interesting question! Makes me curious ...
How are you going to copy the Wallstreet's internal drive to the PB-G4 - there's neither FW nor USB?
And what do you mean by "network drive".
As far as I've understood how os9 works, once there's a full copy of the Wallstreet's drive on another drive/partition, you'll have to copy that to the new replacement drive but neet to "bless" the system-folder to make it bootable. I haven't ever done something like that by now and need to redo the websearch about the "how-to", but I'm sure, there will be someone here for more help.

I wonder, if a PCMCIA-Card with a CF-Card would be a decent bootable drive-copy.
Click to expand...

I'm glad that you like my interesting question. :)

The Powerbook Wallstreet G3 has a built-in Ethernet port as well as my G4 DSLD. So I just connect them together in an ad-hoc fashion and set my G4's hard drive as a share drive to the G3. That's how I transfer all the files I got from Mac Garden to run on the Wallstreet under OS 9.2.2 as well as transfer legacy files from the Wallstreet back to my G4. I used to set up this type of exchange for my former clients who want a legacy G3/G4/G5 system to act as a bridge for their legacy files to be shared among the more modern Intel Macs. The Wallstreet is the best candidate for this job because it can take external modules like a floppy drive and a Zip drive. Much faster and easier than messing around with FW and through the PCMCIA slot which you need a special adapters for the Wallstreet G3.

I was told that just simply dragging the whole hard drive to another drive simply copy the whole thing which it did. Then bless the drive with the G3 and then carbon copy clone it to a 2Gb CF card. I plan to use the Syba IDE to CF adapter as the replacement drive for my Wallstreet.

To be honest, it all looks good into theory, but I don't have the means to verify it unless I take the Wallstreet apart and put the cloned drive in. I thought maybe someone else had done something like this so I can be sure to follow the tried and true method.

Or else, the PCMCIA to CF would be another route..
 
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Amethyst1 said:
I'd probably create a disk image of the Wallstreet's partition, store that on the network drive and just restore it if necessary.
Click to expand...
Can you create a disk image of an os9 partition from within os9 running from that partition?
That image has to be created onto another partition or storage, hasn't it?
 
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@iluvmacs99 Yeah, I do like this kind of Wallstreet tinkering!
I use a Wallstreet as the Mac-in-the-Middle to get old 68k-Macintosh connected with PPC machines, since it has both LocalTalk and Ethernet.
When you use the Ethernet in the "ad-hoc" fashion, does it mean a direct connection with a crossover-ethernet-cable? (with LocalTalk I just need a simple Din8 printer cable ...) I mainly use a Vonets WLAN-to-Ethernet bridge to get os9-machines connected. To bad, the Wallstreet has no USB-port to power the Vonets - so a direct Ethernet-connection is a much more clever solution 👍
And thanks for the inspiration: yes, a PCMCIA-FireWire-Card would be something to think about ... 🙃
I have an old PCMCIA-CF-Card-Adapter and anSD-to-CF-card-adapter that do work in combination. Maybe I'm gonna give it a try on this weekend. 💡
I'll let you know, if and how it works ASAP
 
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bobesch said:
Can you create a disk image of an os9 partition from within os9 running from that partition?
Click to expand...
Good question. My OS 9 Macs dual-boot OS X so I've just used Disk Utility from within X to mess with my 9 partition...
 
bobesch said:
@iluvmacs99 Yeah, I do like this kind of Wallstreet tinkering!
I use a Wallstreet as the Mac-in-the-Middle to get old 68k-Macintosh connected with PPC machines, since it has both LocalTalk and Ethernet.
When you use the Ethernet in the "ad-hoc" fashion, does it mean a direct connection with a crossover-ethernet-cable? (with LocalTalk I just need a simple Din8 printer cable ...) I mainly use a Vonets WLAN-to-Ethernet bridge to get os9-machines connected. To bad, the Wallstreet has no USB-port to power the Vonets - so a direct Ethernet-connection is a much more clever solution 👍
And thanks for the inspiration: yes, a PCMCIA-FireWire-Card would be something to think about ... 🙃
I have an old PCMCIA-CF-Card-Adapter and anSD-to-CF-card-adapter that do work in combination. Maybe I'm gonna give it a try on this weekend. 💡
I'll let you know, if and how it works ASAP
Click to expand...
@bobesch Yes, I just direct connect an ethernet cable from my Powerbook G4 DSLD ethernet port to my Wallstreet's G3 ethernet port. Just a regular cable is fine. Then setup up the G4 to turn on both file sharing and internet sharing and my Wallstreet sees the G4 shared drive as well as using Classila on the Wallstreet to browse the internet. And if I have to connect to older Macs with Local Talk, I just connect the DIN 8 cable from the Wallstreet to 68K macs and Apple IIGS and they can also access the network drive. The powerbookG4 is connected to a router via WIFI and with that, I can connect my G4 Powerbook to my G5 tower server. You can daisy chain all macs together using only the Ethernet ports and Localtalk port for legacy macs. So yeah, I also, like you, use the Wallstreet as the Mac-In-The-Middle bridge. What's good about the Wallstreet also it is that, it acts as sort of a local talk to ethernet bridge if need be. So this makes the Wallstreet G3 all the more important for me to keep working.

Another option some people use is to get a PowerMac G3 233 desktop machine as a mac-in-the-middle pony trick which has all the legacy ports and ethernet as well plus a built-in floppy drive.
 
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I did a backup of my PDQ (aka Wallstreet II) recently. What I did was boot from an OS 9 CD and used Disk Copy 6 to make an .img file of the hard drive. I had Disk Copy save the image to an HFS+(Journaled) formatted SD card via an SD to PCMCIA adapter.
 
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MacFoxG4 said:
I did a backup of my PDQ (aka Wallstreet II) recently. What I did was boot from an OS 9 CD and used Disk Copy 6 to make an .img file of the hard drive. I had Disk Copy save the image to an HFS+(Journaled) formatted SD card via an SD to PCMCIA adapter.
Click to expand...
Heh, you deserved a cookie! Forgot about Disk Copy. I used 6.3.3 to make an image directly to my G4 shared drive from my G3 wallstreet and then remount it back, the copy works! It is also blessed so it's bootable! Cool and thank you and all of you for the great tips!
 
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iluvmacs99 said:
Heh, you deserved a cookie! Forgot about Disk Copy. I used 6.3.3 to make an image directly to my G4 shared drive from my G3 wallstreet and then remount it back, the copy works! It is also blessed so it's bootable! Cool and thank you and all of you for the great tips!
Click to expand...
@iluvmacs99 Hey, you gave much much more than you got and you definitely deserve the whole cookie-box!
Thank you so much for your comprehensive description about how you get all your stuff connected - that's such a clever and perfect way to make the old technik fly! Kudos!
I'm really keen to try out things this weekend... 😊
Also many thanks to you @Amethyst1 and @MacFoxG4!

Update:
@Amethyst1: Powering the Vonets WLAN-To-Ethernet-Bridge through an USB-PCMCIA-Card does work! And the Wallstreet has got USB2-Connectivity now and Power is enough for simultaneously running the Vonets and a USB-stick.
Stupid me - using my USB-PCMCIA-Card for the Wallstreet didn't come to my mind until you've mentioned it ...
Wallstreet USB2.0 through PCMCIA.JPG
 
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bobesch said:
Update:
@Amethyst1: Powering the Vonets WLAN-To-Ethernet-Bridge through an USB-PCMCIA-Card does work! And the Wallstreet has got USB2-Connectivity now and Power is enough for simultaneously running the Vonets and a USB-stick.
Click to expand...
That's awesome :) You (probably) only get USB 1.1 speeds in OS 9 though. Does the USB card also work in 8.6 by any chance?
 
Amethyst1 said:
That's awesome :) You (probably) only get USB 1.1 speeds in OS 9 though. Does the USB card also work in 8.6 by any chance?
Click to expand...
Booting from my os8.5 installation disk the USB-Card is not recognized.
Gonna try os8.5 to a CF-Card/PCMCIA-Card-Adapter to see, if there's any difference.

Update: installed os8.5 German-language onto a 4GB micro-SD-Card sitting in a MicroSD-CF-Card-Adapter, which is plugged into a CF-Card-PCMCIA-adapter. Installation and booting works flawless. BTW my first os8 installation. System looks really nice. So running the system from microSD is a possible way, whenever the spinning drive should fail (mine sounds like a busy sawmill at work ...)
I can plug in the USB2.0-PCMCIA-Card and the card appears on the desktop. It does power the the Vonets-WLAN-To-Ethernet card, but all possible USB-devices (even very old stuff from about 20y ago) were not recognized.
I would like to install os8.6, but there seem to be no 8.5=>8.6 update in german language on Macintoshgarden.
Maybe I'm gonna install the 8.6 original-version from the scratch.
Will let let you know about my progress.
 
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Amethyst1 said:
I'd try 8.6 instead.
Click to expand...
Do you have a link for the 8.6D update?

Update: just found it on Macintoshgarden. https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/mac-os-85-851-update
It's the #10 download, that holds all available language-versions in one download.
os8.6 does recognize the USB-PCMCIA-Card and the card will power the Vonets, but still no USB-media could be connected.

(It's impressing how the PCMCIA-cards shoot out of their respective bays ... )
 
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Amethyst1 said:
There you go:


Edit 1: You also need CarbonLib 1.6.1 (tenth download on the following page) to run Carbon applications on 8.6.


Edit 2: We should really have a thread on 8.6, shouldn't we? :cool:
Click to expand...
Thanks! - Unfortunately the USB-Mass-Storage-135 for os8.5 does not support Wallstreet/PDQ but only the Bronce-Keyboard-machines Lombard and Pismo.
Anyway, there's USB support for os9 and when it comes to os8.8 I'm glad to power the Vonets through the otherwise not functioning USB-PCMCIA-card!
 
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bobesch said:
Unfortunately the USB-Mass-Storage-135 does not support the Wallstreet/PDQ but only the Bronce-Keyboard-machines Lombard and Pismo.
Click to expand...
Does the installer tell you that? If so, there's a "USB Mass Storage.img" file in the "Software Installers/USB Mass Storage" directory of the update. I'd try mounting this (unfortunately I cannot do this myself right now). If the image contains the extensions, try installing them manually by dropping them into the Extensions folder (should be System/Systemerweiterungen). If it contains a tome, try TomeViewer to extract the extensions.
 
Amethyst1 said:
Does the installer tell you that? If so, there's a "USB Mass Storage.img" file in the "Software Installers/USB Mass Storage" directory of the update. I'd try mounting this (unfortunately I cannot do this myself right now). If the image contains the extensions, try installing them manually by dropping them into the Extensions folder (should be System/Systemerweiterungen). If it contains a tome, try TomeViewer to extract the extensions.
Click to expand...
The Installer-software quits the installation with a message-box, saying, that it's the wrong machine.
And yes, I've already extracted and installed the 2 Extensions from that .img-file manually without any success.
There's a bunch of other files in the installation folder, so maybe the extensions alone are not enough for making USB work on the Wallstreet/os9.
Since I'm planning to run just os9 that's not a big deal for me.
 
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iluvmacs99 said:
I plan to use the Syba IDE to CF adapter as the replacement drive for my Wallstreet.
Click to expand...
@iluvmacs99 Hi, how's progress with you Wallstreet/PDQ?
When you go for an IDE to CF adapter make sure it's a 44-pin male.
Stupid me I've ordered the wrong one with 40-pin female socket ... (I really don't know, where those ones are meant for?)
 

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bobesch said:
@iluvmacs99 Hi, how's progress with you Wallstreet/PDQ?
When you go for an IDE to CF adapter make sure it's a 44-pin male.
Stupid me I've ordered the wrong one with 40-pin female socket ... (I really don't know, where those ones are meant for?)
Click to expand...
Hi @bobesch, thank you for asking about my Wallstreet. I haven't put a lot of focus on my Wallstreet PDQ project yet. I've already backed up the drive and save it on my Mini server, so that copy is in a safe place. I'm actually putting more focus now in configuring my PowerBook G4 DSLD as my main PPC machine since my PowerMac G5 tower went up in smoke a few days ago sadly and with money being a bit tight right now since I'm not back working full time due to COVID, I'm spending money only on the essentials. But I'm optimistic that once the economy turns around to pre-2019 level that I can start attending those vintage computer festivals where I know they are selling a lot of those IDE to CF adapters and my financial position should allow me to spend some fun money again. :) Good to know that I should get a male version as well. Thanks again for your project and reassurance from your Wallstreet that I can do the same with mine! :)
 
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