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Need your advice...

ayeying

ayeying

macrumors 601
Original poster
Dec 5, 2007
4,547
13
Yay Area, CA
First off, I want to say, don't turn this into a flaming post. kthx.

Anyways, I have this friend... we'll call him Bob. Bob here wants to ride a motorcycle!

His motorcycle riding classes are coming up and he comes to me and asks me on how the class is and what type of clothes to wear. (I've taken the same exact course, same school, been in his situation, yadada)

After listing all of the items required (clothing wise), Bob comes around and says "why do I have to wear boots?". I think the answer for anyone would be easy, it protects your ankle from road rash if you were to go down. However, he returns by saying "I'm not gonna wear boots, they look ugly."

How would you respond to this statement? Here's a few things to consider:

The person you're talking to is childish. He thinks almost everything you say is a joke or laughable. Compares himself, who's a newbie rider, to someone like me, who's been riding for over a year now and I still don't consider myself entirely "advanced".
 
Let him learn the hard way. You've done your part -- you warned him. You just aren't going to be able to force-feed common sense. He'll just have to figure it out on his own.
 
I've not riden a motorcycle, but I do believe that your ankles are right next to the engine, correct? And the engine gets hot while it's running, so it would be very uncomfortable to not wear boots when riding. In addition I would try again to reason with him about the safety aspects of the boots over regular shoes. And also find some pictures of the damage that can be done to a rider's ankles if they are not getting the protection from the boots. That will help driver your point home.
 
iBookG4user said:
I've not riden a motorcycle, but I do believe that your ankles are right next to the engine, correct? And the engine gets hot while it's running, so it would be very uncomfortable to not wear boots when riding. In addition I would try again to reason with him about the safety aspects of the boots over regular shoes. And also find some pictures of the damage that can be done to a rider's ankles if they are not getting the protection from the boots. That will help driver your point home.
Click to expand...

Actually, that applies to wearing pants instead of shorts. I tried once just pushing my bike (while sitting on it) back into the garage in shorts and it burned my leg :(
 
ayeying said:
Actually, that applies to wearing pants instead of shorts. I tried once just pushing my bike (while sitting on it) back into the garage in shorts and it burned my leg :(
Click to expand...

Ah, ok, it shows that I've not ridden a motorcycle, but my other advice still stands. And I'm sorry to hear about your leg :(
 
If the school is worth much it will go over all the proper stuff and instill what is seriously important as far as equipment. Or at least I would hope so. I've done dirt bikes for years and a street bike for only a year a few years ago. The idea of someone buying a bike with minimal training and incorrect equipment, heading out on the roads is :eek:

What does he want to wear? Tennis shoes, flip flops?
 
It is not uncommon for your leg to get caught under a motorcycle in an accident. If it does it could grind your ankle down for miles. Human foot/ankle are also pretty complex and hard to heal. Most important protection after helmet imho.

I think some boots are pretty good looking and can be pretty comfortable after break-in. I love my Sidi! All the gear all the time for me. :)

This is what his ankle could look like after an accident..... :(

WARNING: Very graphic!!! :eek:

http://www.josr-online.com/content/4/1/4/figure/F1
 
ayeying said:
Vans... classic vans... just because he saw me one day that I wore those while riding...
Click to expand...

Gives me a comfortable Jeff Spicoli moment.
 

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adroit said:
It is not uncommon for your leg to get caught under a motorcycle in an accident. If it does it could grind your ankle down for miles. Human foot/ankle are also pretty complex and hard to heal. Most important protection after helmet imho.

I think some boots are pretty good looking and can be pretty comfortable after break-in. I love my Sidi! All the gear all the time for me. :)

This is what his ankle could look like after an accident..... :(

WARNING: Very graphic!!! :eek:

http://www.josr-online.com/content/4/1/4/figure/F1
Click to expand...

Well, I think I just lost my lunch right there...

Anyways, thanks for all the advices, I've tried, but Bob here won't listen. He states all the "I'm a good driver, that'll make me a good rider" or "if you can do it, I can do it too" arguments against mines... which technically doesn't work right now since he hasn't sat on a bike yet.

I'm just gonna have to let him learn it the hard way.
 
ayeying said:
Well, I think I just lost my lunch right there...

Anyways, thanks for all the advices, I've tried, but Bob here won't listen. He states all the "I'm a good driver, that'll make me a good rider" or "if you can do it, I can do it too" arguments against mines... which technically doesn't work right now since he hasn't sat on a bike yet.

I'm just gonna have to let him learn it the hard way.
Click to expand...

Well you're right there. He won't exactly understand that his ass is being handed to him till it's real time. You can't convince the stubborn/ignorant. Probably thinks he's invincible with a couple lessons.
 
ayeying said:
Well, I think I just lost my lunch right there...

Anyways, thanks for all the advices, I've tried, but Bob here won't listen. He states all the "I'm a good driver, that'll make me a good rider" or "if you can do it, I can do it too" arguments against mines... which technically doesn't work right now since he hasn't sat on a bike yet.

I'm just gonna have to let him learn it the hard way.
Click to expand...

He doesn't have a very good attitude for someone who wants to start riding.

Riding is dangerous, there is no question about that. There are way too many variable on the road. It could be gravel, sand, potholes, deer, other bad drivers and even the best rider crashes at some point. I'm not saying that nobody should ride because it is dangerous. But every rider should at least know the risks and try his/her best to mitigate them. Good riding gear is a good start.

I've just seen too many people in the hospital and had to pull way too many people out of the ditch and hearing stuff like this scares me. The last one was just yesterday. A new rider, 17 years old, who just made a thread on the local forum on the same day about wanting to upgrade his bike because his current one is too slow. He lowsided on our local back road. Thank god he was wearing good gear and was able to ride away. Also have another friend currently in a hospital with a broken femur and his leg basically shattered into pieces. Great rider, 20+ years experience. He hit a large pothole and got into a violent tank slapper that threw him off the bike. Being a good rider doesn't mean that you won't crash and being a good (car) driver means nothing.

Please tell him to watch this video.... I watch at the beginning of every season. It's a good reminder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45hvFqzo8PY

Well, the good news is at least he's taking a course.

Rubber side down :)
 
You've said your piece. If he wisely chooses to heed your advice, great. If not, that's his tough luck.

I rode dirtbikes & quads. Helmets and boots have saved me from the gruesome more times than I can count. To go without either of these basic things is completely foolish and to ride at your own peril.
 
ayeying said:
First off, I want to say, don't turn this into a flaming post. kthx.

Anyways, I have this friend... we'll call him Bob. Bob here wants to ride a motorcycle!

His motorcycle riding classes are coming up and he comes to me and asks me on how the class is and what type of clothes to wear. (I've taken the same exact course, same school, been in his situation, yadada)

After listing all of the items required (clothing wise), Bob comes around and says "why do I have to wear boots?". I think the answer for anyone would be easy, it protects your ankle from road rash if you were to go down. However, he returns by saying "I'm not gonna wear boots, they look ugly."

How would you respond to this statement? Here's a few things to consider:

The person you're talking to is childish. He thinks almost everything you say is a joke or laughable. Compares himself, who's a newbie rider, to someone like me, who's been riding for over a year now and I still don't consider myself entirely "advanced".
Click to expand...


As a rider, two things come to mind.
1. Explain to him why you should wear gear. If he wants to squid it afterwards, that's his prerogative and it is not your responsibility.
2. Boots don't protect against roadrash. It is, first and foremost, to protect against broken ankles. Prevention of road rash is a minor conveniance. Sorry, just a stickler for details :p And if you are going to be explaining to your friends the need, you wan't to know exactly what you are saying!

are you a barfer?
 
adroit said:
It is not uncommon for your leg to get caught under a motorcycle in an accident. If it does it could grind your ankle down for miles. Human foot/ankle are also pretty complex and hard to heal. Most important protection after helmet imho.

I think some boots are pretty good looking and can be pretty comfortable after break-in. I love my Sidi! All the gear all the time for me. :)

This is what his ankle could look like after an accident..... :(

WARNING: Very graphic!!! :eek:

http://www.josr-online.com/content/4/1/4/figure/F1
Click to expand...

Would a leather boot actually save the ankle/foot in this case.

I've never driven a motorcycle but it seems to me, that in many cases the boot will only protect against road rash and not any other trauma, unlike a helmet designed to protect against blunt for trauma.
 
If he came to for advice in the first place...he should respect your opinion.

Sounds like a yuppie, anyway...I used to work for a helmet company, and you wouldn't believe the number of guys that would call in wanting the "German" style helmet, but when finding out that the DOT padding set it higher on their head they would rather have the 'brain bucket' novelty helmet...because they didn't want to look like a gigantic penis on a bike.

When it comes down to safety...I don't care what it looks like.
My uncle was cleaning out the carbs on his bike one weekend and just piddling around the neighborhood taking kids for joy rides. The one time he didn't have a kid on the back, a car pulled out right in front of him...because they didn't see him. He wasn't going fast, but still had to lay it down. He wasn't wearing a helmet, because there isn't a helmet law in Texas. He was scalped by the curb, and has no knuckles anymore. So whether or not it makes you look gay for a few hours...it pays to be comfy in knowing your protected. It's kevlar gloves and helmets for me.

If this guy is that worried about boots...then maybe he should stay in his safe SUV. (IMO) :D
 
@jecapaga

a couple of lessons... lol... I wonder why I spent a month just riding in parking lots and down my street on my bike before I went out on the open road/freeways

@adroit

oh man, deer... I saw one the other, scared the crap outta me cause I didn't know if the deer was gonna run into the road or not. But you're right, there's tons of variables on the road and your mind has to be going like a mile a second.

I have a friend who's been riding 15 years and just not too long ago he somehow low sided (dont know the full details). Good thing it wasn't too bad that he was able to walk away, and able to ride his bike back home, but you're completely right, experience helps but that doesn't make you a perfect rider regardless of how many years of experience.

The course is actually to waive the DMV's riding test, that's the biggest advantage... lol

@lionheartednyhc

hey, im not surprised if i see him down the street in nothing but a tshirt and bball shorts... lol

yeah, i understand boots protect more than road rash. i kinda stated it because he chose looks over safety... and its like, you know, rather have a huge scar than to be protected type of thing.

yeah, i'm on barf. don't really check it that much except the group rides/ride events. you on barf too?

@maflynn

I don't think it would've completely saved that person but I guess there would be enough protection not for him to lose his foot? I'm not 100% sure but it said the foot was literally amputated?
 
maflynn said:
Would a leather boot actually save the ankle/foot in this case.

I've never driven a motorcycle but it seems to me, that in many cases the boot will only protect against road rash and not any other trauma, unlike a helmet designed to protect against blunt for trauma.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if a leather boots would save it, but so far I haven't heard of any ankle injuries from anyone that wears a proper riding boots. I've witnessed an accident in a group ride where the guy's foot got caught underneath the bike. The armour piece that protects his lateral malleolus actually got grinded off completely, but he walked away with only a bit of road rash on his arm. Luckily, that is the only accident I know of personally where somebody's foot got caught underneath the bike. Although, I can remember of one local forum post where the person's ankle pretty much ended up like the picture in the link. He was wearing skateboard shoes.

In short, I'm not sure how well a regular leather boots would protect from grinding. I would think that you could go a pretty far before the grinding breaks through the boots. Anything that gives you a little more time is not going to hurt.

I always wear a full armour boots even when I am only going for a coffee. It really doesn't look that bad with jeans over top of it. I always wear full leathers if I am actually going for a ride. I don't care if I look like a power ranger lol.

The boots I have looks very similar to this.

Sidi_Vertigo_Rain_Boots_detail.jpg


Ah... motorcycle riders.... we all got so much stories to tell....lol
 
ayeying said:
@jecapaga

a couple of lessons... lol... I wonder why I spent a month just riding in parking lots and down my street on my bike before I went out on the open road/freeways

@adroit

oh man, deer... I saw one the other, scared the crap outta me cause I didn't know if the deer was gonna run into the road or not. But you're right, there's tons of variables on the road and your mind has to be going like a mile a second.

I have a friend who's been riding 15 years and just not too long ago he somehow low sided (dont know the full details). Good thing it wasn't too bad that he was able to walk away, and able to ride his bike back home, but you're completely right, experience helps but that doesn't make you a perfect rider regardless of how many years of experience.

The course is actually to waive the DMV's riding test, that's the biggest advantage... lol

@lionheartednyhc

hey, im not surprised if i see him down the street in nothing but a tshirt and bball shorts... lol

yeah, i understand boots protect more than road rash. i kinda stated it because he chose looks over safety... and its like, you know, rather have a huge scar than to be protected type of thing.

yeah, i'm on barf. don't really check it that much except the group rides/ride events. you on barf too?

@maflynn

I don't think it would've completely saved that person but I guess there would be enough protection not for him to lose his foot? I'm not 100% sure but it said the foot was literally amputated?
Click to expand...


Im on barf, same SN as here although I haven't been very active either. What city are you in?

*one finger salute*
 
lionheartednyhc said:
Nope, I have yet to do any group rides. No time :mad:
Click to expand...

Damn. That ride was awesome. A few bikers videoed taped the ride. Here's a few youtube vids to check out of the ride (if you haven't seen them already)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxFR-hW0fMI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKtPkAMx9XE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMkpOQ6h2JQ

I dunno how I got so close to the person video-ing the first one. I was literally right next to it and it was like.. wth? when I watched the vid haha.

Anyways, an update. I just heard that Bob failed his MSF course... I'm not surprised though. But the instructors did say "In my xx [Don't remember the exact years] years of teaching this class, no one has failed.", now they need to rephrase that lol
 
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