Network issue at new office. Please help

[sclawis300]

I got to my new office that uses Mitel 5330 IP Phones and tried to plug my router into the back of the phone and got nothing. I unplugged the phone and plugged my router in and got nothing. I plug my computer directly into the phone and it works. What gives?

I need my router so that I can backup to my external HD and so that I can print. I have tried to use wireless and wired at the same time but I can't seem to get that to work. Is there a way to make my wired connection on my iMac connect to the internet while the wireless connects to my printer and external HD through the router?

 

[ashman70]

Plugging a router into your office's network connection is a BAD idea. I suggest talking to the IT department. Why exactly do you need a router for an external hard drive? If the hard drive is a NAS, then you just need a switch or a hub, otherwise I am sure your office's IT department can help you out.

 

[sclawis300]

I have no IT department. I backup wirelessly to my external HD and I print and scan wirelessly to my printer which both run through the router. I don't need the router plugged into the network, I Just need my own little wireless one so I can print and backup.

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Plugging a router into your office's network connection is a BAD idea.

It worked just fine at my old location. I guess I just got lucky.

 

[r0k]

I have no IT department. I backup wirelessly to my external HD and I print and scan wirelessly to my printer which both run through the router. I don't need the router plugged into the network, I Just need my own little wireless one so I can print and backup.

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It worked just fine at my old location. I guess I just got lucky.

Can you talk to your new office internet provider about their policy regarding using your own router. Perhaps you simply need to get them to enable it in their configuration. Another option is to plug in an access point (or set up your router as an access point). This is different than a router in that it doesn't create a new network but rather tries to add wireless devices to the ethernet network it is connected to.

 

[speacock]

I got to my new office that uses Mitel 5330 IP Phones and tried to plug my router into the back of the phone and got nothing. I unplugged the phone and plugged my router in and got nothing. I plug my computer directly into the phone and it works. What gives?

I need my router so that I can backup to my external HD and so that I can print. I have tried to use wireless and wired at the same time but I can't seem to get that to work. Is there a way to make my wired connection on my iMac connect to the internet while the wireless connects to my printer and external HD through the router?

I'm guessing that if you have no IT department, then you're in some kind of managed office environment? In which case the management company is probably preventing your router from connecting because, as someone else pointed out, this is generally a very bad idea for 2 reasons:
1. It's a huge security risk - you dont know what someone might attach to the other side of the router, an unsecured internet connection for example
2. You don't know how many devices someone might attach to the other side of the router

You could use a hub or switch rather than a router as this would be probably (though not definitely) be transparent to the central switching infrastructure.

It may be something as simple as the port speed on the phone and router. Most IP phones (I don't know for sure about the model you have) have only a 100Mbit port and the PoE switches that drive them are often 100Mbit too. If your router has a fixed Gbit or a fixed 10Mbit port, then it may not be able to connect. Your computer on the other hand will autosense and connect at the right speed.

I would advise talking to the people who run the IT at your offices before you start plugging in routers or hubs though, they may be able to save you a lot of time and effort.

Having said all this, there should be no reason why you couldn't plug your laptop into the phone and get connection to the outside world that way and also connect it simultaneously to you wireless network created by you router for access to your printer and HD.

This does raise a question in my mind though - if the router is connected to your phone, it's very nearby. I'm guessing the external HD is connected via USB to the router and the printer is either connected the same way or is a wireless printer, however, it almost certainly has a USB port on it. If this is the case, couldn't you just connect it all via USB to your laptop and save yourself the hassle and performance hit of using a wireless router?

 

[sclawis300]

Can you talk to your new office internet provider about their policy regarding using your own router. Perhaps you simply need to get them to enable it in their configuration. Another option is to plug in an access point (or set up your router as an access point). This is different than a router in that it doesn't create a new network but rather tries to add wireless devices to the ethernet network it is connected to.

I will research trying to make my router an access point. Thanks. Hopefully someone from the provider is coming by today to port my phone number over. I will see if that guy has a clue about any of this.

It may be something as simple as the port speed on the phone and router. Most IP phones (I don't know for sure about the model you have) have only a 100Mbit port and the PoE switches that drive them are often 100Mbit too. If your router has a fixed Gbit or a fixed 10Mbit port, then it may not be able to connect. Your computer on the other hand will autosense and connect at the right speed.

I saw a setting like that in the router configuration. Should I even attempt to change it to 100?

Having said all this, there should be no reason why you couldn't plug your laptop into the phone and get connection to the outside world that way and also connect it simultaneously to you wireless network created by you router for access to your printer and HD.

I tried this and it did not work. It will work with whatever connection I give priority (ie the internet will work or my printer will work but not both). Any ideas on what I may be doing wrong here?

This does raise a question in my mind though - if the router is connected to your phone, it's very nearby. I'm guessing the external HD is connected via USB to the router and the printer is either connected the same way or is a wireless printer, however, it almost certainly has a USB port on it. If this is the case, couldn't you just connect it all via USB to your laptop and save yourself the hassle and performance hit of using a wireless router?

The printer is wireless and the HD is connected with ethernet cable to the router. The router has no USB plug.

 

[sclawis300]

So the provider came by and said that my router should work if I plug it into the back of the phone as long as it is set to obtain DHCP automatically. It is, but the router still did not work in the back of the phone.

One of the reasons I want a router is so that I can have something between me and all the other independent business in the building who all share the same network. Is there something else that will accomplish that?

 

[sclawis300]

so it is working now. I swear I plugged the router in 20 times this way and it did not work before. Apparently I just needed to plug wire going from the phone to the router in port 1 instead of the "internet" port. Oh well. Just glad it is working. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[speacock]

so it is working now. I swear I plugged the router in 20 times this way and it did not work before. Apparently I just needed to plug wire going from the phone to the router in port 1 instead of the "internet" port. Oh well. Just glad it is working. Thanks for the help guys.

Ah, it's often easy to overlook the obvious.

Given what you've said, it sounds like the router you have is one that is designed for DSL or cable type environments. The 'internet' port usually only supports PPPoE or PPPoA connections (here in the UK on DSL, not sure about on cable and in the US, but same basic principle applies), which would explain why it wasn't seeing anything.

I'm making assumptions here, but I guess that the 'Port1' you mention is probably one of the hub/switch ports on the router (there's usually 2 or 4 of them, labeled 1-4, the 'Internet' port is distinct from these 4 and usually colour-coded). The only thing I will say is that if this is the case, then it's likely that you're using your router simply as a hub/switch and access point, the easy way to tell is to look and see if the IP address of your computer, printer, etc. is in the same subnet as your IP phone (often easier said than done). In this case, the router isn't providing the separation between you and the rest of the network that you mentioned previously; that shouldn't be too much of a problem, but best that you know.

 

[sclawis300]

Ah, it's often easy to overlook the obvious.

Given what you've said, it sounds like the router you have is one that is designed for DSL or cable type environments. The 'internet' port usually only supports PPPoE or PPPoA connections (here in the UK on DSL, not sure about on cable and in the US, but same basic principle applies), which would explain why it wasn't seeing anything.

I'm making assumptions here, but I guess that the 'Port1' you mention is probably one of the hub/switch ports on the router (there's usually 2 or 4 of them, labeled 1-4, the 'Internet' port is distinct from these 4 and usually colour-coded). The only thing I will say is that if this is the case, then it's likely that you're using your router simply as a hub/switch and access point, the easy way to tell is to look and see if the IP address of your computer, printer, etc. is in the same subnet as your IP phone (often easier said than done). In this case, the router isn't providing the separation between you and the rest of the network that you mentioned previously; that shouldn't be too much of a problem, but best that you know.

Pretty sure you are spot on with everything you mentioned. I had looked into making it an 'access point' before but the thing i was reading made it seem way more complicated than it actually was. Talking to someone is much easier than reading something.

On a side note, 2 guys in the building lost internet about 5 minutes after I got my router set up. OOPS. I unplugged the router and this morning I set my router ip to something that hopefully will not conflict. Fingers crossed that I don't cause anyone else any more problems.

 

[speacock]

On a side note, 2 guys in the building lost internet about 5 minutes after I got my router set up. OOPS. I unplugged the router and this morning I set my router ip to something that hopefully will not conflict. Fingers crossed that I don't cause anyone else any more problems.

Many routers allow you to set them to obtain a dynamic IP address, it's an unusual configuration as this is often the last thing you'd want on a router, but as you're using it only as a switch/access point then it shouldn't matter. Normally there's a setting somewhere that says something like 'obtain IP address automatically' or 'use DHCP', if you turn this on it'll pick up an IP address automatically that is guaranteed not to conflict. Many routers also have a built in DHCP server function, which you'll want to disable.

 

[sclawis300]

Many routers allow you to set them to obtain a dynamic IP address, it's an unusual configuration as this is often the last thing you'd want on a router, but as you're using it only as a switch/access point then it shouldn't matter. Normally there's a setting somewhere that says something like 'obtain IP address automatically' or 'use DHCP', if you turn this on it'll pick up an IP address automatically that is guaranteed not to conflict. Many routers also have a built in DHCP server function, which you'll want to disable.

Had disabled the DHCP and the IP was set to automatic so who knows. There have not been any conflicts so far today. Hopefully we are set. Only other thing that has not been tested is time machine. I will try that over the weekend probably.

 

[ljonesj]

Actually its not unusual as a lot of isp providers sent out a dynamic ip to there modems instead of static unless your a business and a lot of times you need a static ip. so a router set to optaining a dyanmic ip is not odd.

 

[speacock]

Actually its not unusual as a lot of isp providers sent out a dynamic ip to there modems instead of static unless your a business and a lot of times you need a static ip. so a router set to optaining a dyanmic ip is not odd.

On the WAN side yes, but in this instance we're dealing only with the LAN side which would more commonly be set to an RFC1918 compliant static IP address, particularly if it's being used as a DHCP server.

 

[sclawis300]

Well, this time it worked for about a day and a half. Not sure what the heck is wrong.

 

[sclawis300]

Looks like I hijacked the ip for the printer down the hall. I thought .251 was going to be out of range for anything that was set.

How can I find an IP add that is guaranteed to not conflict with anything else in the building so I can have a stinking wireless access point?????????????

 

[speacock]

Looks like I hij acked the ip for the printer down the hall. I thought .251 was going to be out of range for anything that was set.

How can I find an IP add that is guaranteed to not conflict with anything else in the building so I can have a stinking wireless access point?????????????

Not easily I'm afraid, you could try pinging each address in the subnet but the fact that an address is free now doesn't mean it will be tomorrow. If you're using the router only as a switch and access point then it probably doesn't really need an IP address, though it may insist upon having one. What make and model of router is it?

 

[sclawis300]

linksys wrt54g (I think). Not looking at it right now. Should I just get a access point? I also have a WRT160N at my house. Should I take that to the office.

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I do know that there are two networked printers in the office and I know both of their addresses. The phone system is using .200 and I assume that does not change. If I assign something like .254 that is not currently assigned should I be safe? My computer has something in the .100s.

(I had that fear after I pinged the addresses that they may not stay open the next day.)

 

[speacock]

linksys wrt54g (I think). Not looking at it right now. Should I just get a access point? I also have a WRT160N at my house. Should I take that to the office.

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I do know that there are two networked printers in the office and I know both of their addresses. The phone system is using .200 and I assume that does not change. If I assign something like .254 that is not currently assigned should I be safe? My computer has something in the .100s.

(I had that fear after I pinged the addresses that they may not stay open the next day.)

.254 is probably not free, most people tend to reserve .1 and .254.

They are most likely using DHCP and have segmented the address space. It sounds like they are using addresses above .100 for client devices and you earlier mentioned that the printer was .251 so it sounds like addresses above .250 are used for that sort of thing. Chances are they reserve addresses below .100 for servers, network kit and so on.


I think you have 4 options:
1. I had a quick look at the manual for the WRT54G. On the face of it, it may work the way you had it configured originally, with the cable from the back of the phone connected to the 'Internet' port. You'd need to configure it to use a connection type of 'Automatic Configuration - DHCP', then set the LAN side IP address to anything that isn't in the same subnet as the office LAN (basically, as long as one of the first 3 number in the address are different, so if they are using 192.168.1,x, then you use 192.168.2.x), but using an RFC1918 address, so anything starting with 192.168.x.x with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0, then turn on the DHCP server setting.

2. If that doesn't work, probably the next thing to try is to ask the admin people in the office to assign you a static IP address for your router

3. Buy a simple wireless AP and LAN switch

4. Keep trying to guess IP addresses, I'd try starting just below .100 and working down, but ping them before you assign them as if this is the range they use for their network kit, it may not be just a printer or another user that you disrupt. I think this approach is actually your last resort and I'd try very hard to do one of the other three options first.

 

[sclawis300]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_10 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8E600 Safari/6533.18.5)

One last question before I try this stuff. If I do option one will I be able to plug in my buffalo hd and assign it an add under the .2.x address without concern for conflicting with anything.

 

[r0k]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_10 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8E600 Safari/6533.18.5)

One last question before I try this stuff. If I do option one will I be able to plug in my buffalo hd and assign it an add under the .2.x address without concern for conflicting with anything.

Before you assign the address, make sure it's not part of the dhcp pool being assigned by the router. Second ping the address you intend to assign to make sure somebody isn't already using it. In terminal, type (for example)

Ping 192.168.1.21

Another option is to get replies from everything by typing

Ping 192.168.1.255

255 is a "broadcast" ping so everybody will answer (on a class C setup which is probably what you are dealing with). Hint: You will have to hit ^c to stop the pings or they will never stop.

 

[speacock]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_10 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8E600 Safari/6533.18.5)

One last question before I try this stuff. If I do option one will I be able to plug in my buffalo hd and assign it an add under the .2.x address without concern for conflicting with anything.

Yes, in fact with the DHCP server enabled on your router you shouldn't have to assign it an address manually at all, it should be able to pick one up dynamically.

What you'll have in effect are two networks, one on the building side and one your own private little network. Without the router there, devices wouldn't be able to see each other at all as they are on separate subnets. When the router routes traffic across it's interface the only address that the destination really sees is that of the router, if you've got the configuration right, then the router's address on the building side has been assigned automatically and so shouldn't conflict.

 

[sclawis300]

So I am just a little nervous about screwing things up again at the new building so I was curious if there was a way to get the wireless to work at the same time as the ethernet. This way it would seem like my router could be not connected to the internet or the office network and my computer could print wirelessly and access the external HD wirelessly but would connect to the internet through the ethernet. The way it is going now I have airport turned off while surfing, then I turn airport on to print, then I turn it back off to surf again. Is there a way to make them work simultaneously?

sorry for the run around on this. I just don't want to get my new LL upset my first week in the building by crashing the whole network.

 

[speacock]

So I am just a little nervous about screwing things up again at the new building so I was curious if there was a way to get the wireless to work at the same time as the ethernet. This way it would seem like my router could be not connected to the internet or the office network and my computer could print wirelessly and access the external HD wirelessly but would connect to the internet through the ethernet. The way it is going now I have airport turned off while surfing, then I turn airport on to print, then I turn it back off to surf again. Is there a way to make them work simultaneously?

sorry for the run around on this. I just don't want to get my new LL upset my first week in the building by crashing the whole network.

To be honest I've never tried it. I can see no reason why it shouldn't work, but I just don't know. I'll give a try when I get a chance, but will probably be a couple of days I'm afraid.

 

[sclawis300]

To be honest I've never tried it. I can see no reason why it shouldn't work, but I just don't know. I'll give a try when I get a chance, but will probably be a couple of days I'm afraid.

you are awesome.