Networking ethernet question

[Macette]

Hi,

I've just set up ADSL for one of my clients; he now wants to network his other computer and his ethernet laser printer. So he needs a hub. My question is: can you use a 10 Base-T hub with faster (ie gigabit) ethernet computers? He's got an ancient beige G3 and a black Powerbook and a brand spanking new dual-gig mirror drive door lovely machine. I know that it would mean that it would limit the capability of the new machine's ethernet, but since the other two aren't running that fast it wouldn't matter.

But is it okay to do that? Will it work? I'm looking at this hub:

http://www.dlink.com.au/products/hubs/de805/

since the ADSL router is also a d-link model, and I thought they would be happily compatible.

Please let me know if about to do the wrong thing...

Thanks in advance for your help...

 

[Pismo]

I think in order to avoid any bottle necks, I'd get a 10/100 switch or hub. I prefer the switch because it should handle data transfers better. Netgear makes some really nice hubs and switches. Just my 2 cents.

 

[gbojim]

Re: Networking ethernet question

Originally posted by Macette
Hi,

I've just set up ADSL for one of my clients; he now wants to network his other computer and his ethernet laser printer. So he needs a hub. My question is: can you use a 10 Base-T hub with faster (ie gigabit) ethernet computers? He's got an ancient beige G3 and a black Powerbook and a brand spanking new dual-gig mirror drive door lovely machine. I know that it would mean that it would limit the capability of the new machine's ethernet, but since the other two aren't running that fast it wouldn't matter.

But is it okay to do that? Will it work? I'm looking at this hub:

http://www.dlink.com.au/products/hubs/de805/

since the ADSL router is also a d-link model, and I thought they would be happily compatible.

Please let me know if about to do the wrong thing...

Thanks in advance for your help...

Yes it will work - no problem. If you are going to be doing file sharing between the notebook and MDD, check the ethernet interface on the notebook. I know the later models had 10/100 Ethernet connections. If yours is 10/100, you would benefit by installing a 10/100 switch.

Also, ethernet is universally compatible. Don't worry about buying more D-link equipment if you see something you like better.

 

[Macette]

thanks for that... very useful.

2 more questions: what's the difference between a dual-speed hub and a switch?

in fact, what IS a switch? it looks like a hub to me...

other question: when I get my switch, does the ADSL router just plug straight into one of the ethernet sockets? I'm nervous about all this ADSL stuff, because I haven't done much networking before, and I don't want to buy the wrong thing.

thanks again.

 

[GeeYouEye]

Originally posted by Macette
thanks for that... very useful.

2 more questions: what's the difference between a dual-speed hub and a switch?

in fact, what IS a switch? it looks like a hub to me...

other question: when I get my switch, does the ADSL router just plug straight into one of the ethernet sockets? I'm nervous about all this ADSL stuff, because I haven't done much networking before, and I don't want to buy the wrong thing.

thanks again.

Don't know the first one myself, but I can answer the ADSL thing - in short, yes, you can plug the router in to one of the ports, but it would probably be a better idea to just get a multi-port router, and connect both computers to that; by putting the hub in, you're defeating the point of the router in this case. My experience says stay away from hubs unless the physical size of the network necessitates it, which it sounds like it doesn't.

 

[Sun Baked]

A hub works like a telephone party line. Only one computer can talk at a time. Here, the first computer prints to the printer, but the message is broadcast to all of the computers on the network.

A switch works more like our modern phone system. Computers can talk with each other on private connections so multiple conversations can be carried on at the same time. Here, the first computer and printer make a private connection during printing, while the fourth computer transfers a file to the fifth computer over another connection.

 

[Macette]

Originally posted by GeeYouEye
Don't know the first one myself, but I can answer the ADSL thing - in short, yes, you can plug the router in to one of the ports, but it would probably be a better idea to just get a multi-port router, and connect both computers to that; by putting the hub in, you're defeating the point of the router in this case. My experience says stay away from hubs unless the physical size of the network necessitates it, which it sounds like it doesn't.

Well you know, that's what I thought to begin with - I mean, the ADSL router DOES have multiple ports. But when I plugged the printer into one of them, the link light didn't light up, and the computer couldn't see it on the network - even after restarting both. Now I'm confused!

(and thanks Sun Baked, for the explanation of hub versus switch).

 

[gbojim]

Originally posted by Macette
thanks for that... very useful.

2 more questions: what's the difference between a dual-speed hub and a switch?

in fact, what IS a switch? it looks like a hub to me...

other question: when I get my switch, does the ADSL router just plug straight into one of the ethernet sockets? I'm nervous about all this ADSL stuff, because I haven't done much networking before, and I don't want to buy the wrong thing.

thanks again.

The dual speed part means that the ethernet ports can operate at either 10 or 100 Mbps. You can connect whatever devices you want and they will negotiate the highest speed that is common between them.

The difference between a hub and a switch is that when using a hub, only 2 devices on the network can communicate at a time, whereas with a switch, more than 1 pair of devices can communicate at a time. For example, say the person using the notebook is communicating with the router to the Internet and the person using the PMac wants to print at the same time. When using a hub, the the PMac would have to wait until the notebook communication finishes before communicating with the printer. When using a switch, the PMac can communicate with the printer at the same time as the notebook is communicating with the router. That probably sounds pretty bad for a hub, but in reality it is not since the PMac would only have to wait until a single packet of information is transmitted between the notebook and router - takes a few microseconds. If this network will be used for downloading a lot of large files to one system while the other system is printing a lot of large files, you might see a degradation using a hub. But I doubt it would even be noticable. And yes hubs and switches look the same.

Yes the ADSL router simply connects to one of the ports on the switch or hub - whichever you choose. It may need a crossover cable. It should tell you in the instructions.

One question though, is the ADSL unit actually a router or just a modem? If you have a DSL-500, all you need is the hub or switch. But it you have a DSL-300, you will not have routing capability, which is required to connect all your systems to the network. In that case, you could get a DI-804 which gives you a router and switch combination. If you get the DI-804 because you need routing capability, connect the WAN port on the DI-804 to the ADSL modem, and your computers and printer to the switch ports.

 

[gbojim]

Originally posted by Macette
Well you know, that's what I thought to begin with - I mean, the ADSL router DOES have multiple ports. But when I plugged the printer into one of them, the link light didn't light up, and the computer couldn't see it on the network - even after restarting both. Now I'm confused!

(and thanks Sun Baked, for the explanation of hub versus switch).

Oops. Sorry for the long crossover post. Anyway, first rule of network troubleshooting when the link light doesn't come on is try a different port on the switch, then try a different cable.

 

[Macette]

Originally posted by gbojim
One question though, is the ADSL unit actually a router or just a modem? If you have a DSL-500, all you need is the hub or switch. But it you have a DSL-300, you will not have routing capability, which is required to connect all your systems to the network. In that case, you could get a DI-804 which gives you a router and switch combination. If you get the DI-804 because you need routing capability, connect the WAN port on the DI-804 to the ADSL modem, and your computers and printer to the switch ports.

I have a DSL 504, which according to the website has a built-in switch. So I guess I have all the equipment I need? But I've tried two different cables in two different jacks... oh well, I'll go back and try again.

 

[gbojim]

Originally posted by Macette
I have a DSL 504, which according to the website has a built-in switch. So I guess I have all the equipment I need? But I've tried two different cables in two different jacks... oh well, I'll go back and try again.

So it seems like you've narrowed it down to the printer. Hopefully it is not a dead port. Check the configuration on the printer to ensure the ethernet port is enabled. Another thing you could try is connecting the printer directly to the PMac since you know the PMac port works. IIRC, the port on the PMac will auto-config its port without using a crossover cable.

 

[Macette]

It works absolutely fine connected directly to the PMac - that's how they've been using it up until now. (the ADSL is more recent than the printer).

so what they've been doing is just swapping the cables when they want to print - but that's clearly stupid, since it should work through the router. I will fiddle around and if I still have problems, i will return to this thread for more advice!

Thanks for your help.

 

[gbojim]

Originally posted by Macette
It works absolutely fine connected directly to the PMac - that's how they've been using it up until now. (the ADSL is more recent than the printer).

so what they've been doing is just swapping the cables when they want to print - but that's clearly stupid, since it should work through the router. I will fiddle around and if I still have problems, i will return to this thread for more advice!

Thanks for your help.

From what you just said, one thing quickly comes to mind. If they were using a crossover cable between the PMac and the printer, that cable will not work between the printer and the router.

 

[Macette]

excellent. i'm sure that's what it is. thanks muchly.