New >$1000 MacBook Air to be more powerful than Base Model MacBook Pro?

[Appurushido]

Most people are calling the possible sub $1000 the new MB Air or so. Do you think this will be powerful equally to stock MacBook Pro or less? Looking for a secondary computer. Not sure if I should wait it out or just get the stock MackBook Pro at $1099 right now.

Thoughts? Thanks!

 

[jpn]

hi

i don't think its possible (in a marketing sense) to have a new MacBook Air be more "powerful" (in terms of CPU) than a MacBook Pro.

the only question is how apple will differentiate this new model versus the MacBook (12" models).

 

[Appurushido]

I probably should have meant to say equal to the base model MB Pro. I guess with the MBs they will just discontinue those as those really did not fit in any ones category. They seemed more like an Apple version of the Netbooks from about 10 yrs ago.

 

[jpn]

I probably should have meant to say equal to the base model MB Pro. I guess with the MBs they will just discontinue those as those really did not fit in any ones category. They seemed more like an Apple version of the Netbooks from about 10 yrs ago.

two weeks from today we will find out !

but its seriously in doubt that the MacBook line will be "just discontinued."

 

[Appurushido]

2 weeks or a month and a half away. If I recall correctly, a few years back when Apple announced the Retina MB Pros it was a separate event in October. Fingers crossed they announce it with the new iPhones.

 

[Ma2k5]

hi

i don't think its possible (in a marketing sense) to have a new MacBook Air be more "powerful" (in terms of CPU) than a MacBook Pro.

the only question is how apple will differentiate this new model versus the MacBook (12" models).

It is very possible as the base MacBook Pro uses a 15w CPU, which the Air's also use. The new Air is likely to have an updated 15w CPU, so will by default be more powerful than the Pro (unless Apple decide to take the strange route of using a less powerful processor, but they are reserved for the MacBook 12").

The base MacBook Pro is "Pro" only in name, it is against the grain on how Apple previously released "Pro" 13" laptops, which use 28w CPU's as per the touch-bar version. I believe even in the keynote, they mentioned that the 13" non-touch was infact the "Air" replacement at the time.

The way the MacBook Air and the MacBook will be differentiated it as it always has, where the MacBook uses 4.5w CPU's (no fans required), MacBook Air uses 15w CPU's and the Pro's use 28w/45w (13"/15").

NB I should note, 15W CPU's are very powerful, they are used in production environments in software and financial houses all the time. Most of the popular Window laptops (XPS 13, Surface/Surface Book's, Lenovo's etc) are all 15W laptops. So when I say it is "Pro" in name only, it isn't to say the non-touch bar MacBooK Pro is weak, just that Apple generally released 28W 13" "Pro" laptops" and 15W CPU 13" "Air" laptops. I reckon most people who buy a "Pro" version actually only need the "Air" version so I am looking forward to this release.

 

[unagimiyagi]

Their entire laptop line is very confusing to novices and apple veterans alike. At least their strategy is. I am totally at a loss to understand how a trillion dollar company can not crank out a coherent and cohesive laptop line. Why not make a 12,14, 15" regular and pro versions? Or even 12, 14, 15", super light, regular, and pro versions?

I think that the answer really lies in them sticking to some corporate principles, that any obvious and simple route must be a trap for Apple, b/c nothing is easy and everything has to be thought to the nth degree b/c that's what Apple does. But they've been thinking about this problem for 30 years. The market is and forever will be segmented into regular and pro users, and some people who just want a super thin/light at each screen size. Not that hard.

 

[Ma2k5]

Their entire laptop line is very confusing to novices and apple veterans alike. At least their strategy is. I am totally at a loss to understand how a trillion dollar company can not crank out a coherent and cohesive laptop line. Why not make a 12,14, 15" regular and pro versions? Or even 12, 14, 15", super light, regular, and pro versions?

I think that the answer really lies in them sticking to some corporate principles, that any obvious and simple route must be a trap for Apple, b/c nothing is easy and everything has to be thought to the nth degree b/c that's what Apple does. But they've been thinking about this problem for 30 years. The market is and forever will be segmented into regular and pro users, and some people who just want a super thin/light at each screen size. Not that hard.

One of the main things that has affected them is being reliant on Intel for CPU's, which affects their strategy.

Saying that, they still made a hash of their iPad lineup, so Intel is just part of the problem.

 

[Appurushido]

IMO they should just have two lines of laptops. MacBook Pro line and MacBook Air. If they keep just the MacBook name alone, it's still confusing to the non-tech savvy user.

MacBook Pro will be for the power users on the go with he 13" and 15" lines while the Air is for students or people who just need basic functions like web browsing, MS/Google Office software, social media and communication.

 

[Ma2k5]

IMO they should just have two lines of laptops. MacBook Pro line and MacBook Air. If they keep just the MacBook name alone, it's still confusing to the non-tech savvy user.

MacBook Pro will be for the power users on the go with he 13" and 15" lines while the Air is for students or people who just need basic functions like web browsing, MS/Google Office software, social media and communication.

The 12” has a market for those who want something extra compact and more importantly - 100% silent. That’s quite a nice selling point and definitely a valid differentiator.

 

[Garage Battle]

I honestly cannot see any reason that Apple wouldn't do away with "air" and the 12" MacBook - and just release a 2018 13" MacBook Pro nTB as just the "13 inch MacBook".

Touch bar / quad+ cores / quad TB3 ports / 13 or 15 = MacBook Pro
noTouch bar / dual+ cores / dual TB3 ports / 13 only = MacBook

dual core, 128gb, 8g base model
quad core 256-512 storage, 16gb optioned out

if Apple deviates from this in any way, hopefully its to go convertible. the talk of bringing IOS app support to MacBook makes huge sense if pen support is also OTW.

 

[Ma2k5]

I honestly cannot see any reason that Apple wouldn't do away with "air" and the 12" MacBook - and just release a 2018 13" MacBook Pro nTB as just the "13 inch MacBook".

Touch bar / quad+ cores / quad TB3 ports / 13 or 15 = MacBook Pro
noTouch bar / dual+ cores / dual TB3 ports / 13 only = MacBook

dual core, 128gb, 8g base model
quad core 256-512 storage, 16gb optioned out

if Apple deviates from this in any way, hopefully its to go convertible. the talk of bringing IOS app support to MacBook makes huge sense if pen support is also OTW.

I think they shouldn't do away with them, because 12" MacBook is still great for those who were in the market for the 11" MacBook Air of yesteryear and a silent machine.

The 13" Air is just the noTouchBar MacBook Pro in essence, same CPU line, the mistake they made was calling it a Pro, confusing it with the TouchBar model.

The best way would be:

12" MacBook - 4.5w CPU (silent) in smallest form factor possible

13" Air - 15w quad core in slimmer than Pro and cheaper than 12" but with more power than the 12" and best in class battery life.

13" Pro - 28w quad core with touch bar and powerful Iris iGPU

15" Pro - 45w hex core with touch bar and discrete GPU

The other truth is, eventually Apple will have to put touch bar in everything (be it an improved version later down the line) which will complicate things. It wouldn't make sense to have a touch bar and non-touch bar version (similarly to how Apple are now trying to remove touchID on all their iPhone/iPad lineup in favour of FaceID).

In addition, a lot of this will come down to Intel's roadmap of CPU's as this will drastically affect the MacBook lineup - for example, what happens if Intel don't provide 28w CPU's with Iris Pro level graphics (GT3e) in the future?

 

[tomscott1988]

The "air" branding doesnt really suit the direction going forward. It has been dropped from the iPad for example.

Making it simple would be my thoughts.

12" and 14-15" macbook
13" and 15" macbook pro

A 15" macbook would be so compelling. I am a professional but like working on a desktop and have a mac pro, all of my work is done here. I dont do serious work on the go but its nice to have the option if need be. Im a photographer so mostly use my macbook for file transfer and organisation while traveling and edit a select few images to get images to a client quickly.

I also use it for media consumption and web browsing, would be awesome to have the screen real estate of the 15" with the profile of the 12" macbook. I think its ridiculous that if you want a 15" laptop you have to spend £2350.

Apple is missing a whole category, in classic apple style this is how they up sell you to something you dont need for a 50% more.

 

[Garage Battle]

I think they shouldn't do away with them, because 12" MacBook is still great for those who were in the market for the 11" MacBook Air of yesteryear and a silent machine.

The 13" Air is just the noTouchBar MacBook Pro in essence, same CPU line, the mistake they made was calling it a Pro, confusing it with the TouchBar model.

The best way would be:

12" MacBook - 4.5w CPU (silent) in smallest form factor possible

13" Air - 15w quad core in slimmer than Pro and cheaper than 12" but with more power than the 12" and best in class battery life.

13" Pro - 28w quad core with touch bar and powerful Iris iGPU

15" Pro - 45w hex core with touch bar and discrete GPU

The other truth is, eventually Apple will have to put touch bar in everything (be it an improved version later down the line) which will complicate things. It wouldn't make sense to have a touch bar and non-touch bar version (similarly to how Apple are now trying to remove touchID on all their iPhone/iPad lineup in favour of FaceID).

In addition, a lot of this will come down to Intel's roadmap of CPU's as this will drastically affect the MacBook lineup - for example, what happens if Intel don't provide 28w CPU's with Iris Pro level graphics (GT3e) in the future?

unless under heavy load the 13" dual core 2016 nTB is silent. I never hear it. Only when gaming do I hear fans.

a dual core 13" nTB 2018 model with an even more efficient processor would have little reason to ever kick the fans on. a quad core however.....

I think the 12" is a toy. nearly netbook status. the 13" nTB is a perfect balance of weight/slim/usability - if they could give it the 2018 keyboard then it would be fine.

 

[Ma2k5]

unless under heavy load the 13" dual core 2016 nTB is silent. I never hear it. Only when gaming do I hear fans.

a dual core 13" nTB 2018 model with an even more efficient processor would have little reason to ever kick the fans on. a quad core however.....

I think the 12" is a toy. nearly netbook status. the 13" nTB is a perfect balance of weight/slim/usability - if they could give it the 2018 keyboard then it would be fine.

I owned the 13" nTB Pro for around a month before I returned it due to keyboard issues. I've also owned the 12" MacBook. I wouldn't say my nTB was silent and I wouldn't say I put "heavy" load on it or used it for gaming. It also uses a 1 fan design so it is more likely to make noise when it needs to be active.

Not sure why you think 12" is a toy, it is a very capable machine. You can do full development and design work on it - it might be slower but far from unusable - I managed to get Windows Parallels on it with heavy duty applications such as Visual Studio/MS SQL Server.

All the new generation 15w CPU's are going to be quad core, with maybe the exception of the very very lowest end CPU, but why would you use that - when the whole market has already adopted the quad core 15w CPU's in thin chassis - seems unreasonable just to try stay as quiet as possible at the cost of performance - you may aswell go all the way to the 12" MacBook then?

 

[curmudgeonette]

13" Air - 15w quad core in slimmer than Pro and cheaper than 12" but with more power than the 12" and best in class battery life.

I don't see how an Intel quad equipped retina 13" Air could be cheaper than an rMB12!

The Y-series chips have been priced exactly the same as the 15W GT2 U-series. And indeed, they've been the same die, just in a smaller package and qualified/configured to different limits. The MB chassis is as minimal as possible: No fan and one port. The only cost adder is retina and a minimum 256GB SSD. The MBA has been cheaper because of the lack of retina, only 128GB in the base model, and an old CPU.

I do see a way for Apple to remove around $281 from the BOM of a cheap laptop...

 

[Ma2k5]

I don't see how an Intel quad equipped retina 13" Air could be cheaper than an rMB12!

The Y-series chips have been priced exactly the same as the 15W GT2 U-series. And indeed, they've been the same die, just in a smaller package and qualified/configured to different limits. The MB chassis is as minimal as possible: No fan and one port. The only cost adder is retina and a minimum 256GB SSD. The MBA has been cheaper because of the lack of retina, only 128GB in the base model, and an old CPU.

I do see a way for Apple to remove around $281 from the BOM of a cheap laptop...

That is true, I do see where you are coming from... Since the new Air and the MacBook will likely be using the new Whiskey/Amber lake CPU's with the U-series CPU's being quad core 15w CPU's (bar the lowest CPU option) and the Y-series being the dual core 5w CPU's, not sure what they could do to make say a $999 MacBook Air or even cheaper than the 12" MacBook... Maybe they add the touch bar to the MacBook 12"? Time will tell.

https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/intel-whiskey-lake-amber-lake-3515645

One thing I am excited for with regards to the new chips are:

i. The new chips seem to have integrated Gigabit WiFi and LTE (Sim card capability). This may mean we no longer have to rely on wifi cards which generally have been problematic industry wide
ii. The chips now have embedded DisplayPort 1.4 support, which could be useful with certain e-GPU/external display combinations.
iii. Supposedly better battery performance!
iv. Spectre/Meltdown bug fixed on WhiskeyLake
iv. And more!

 

[Aegelward]

I think apple is going to quietly discontinue the base model Pros, and maybe slide the price of the 13" models down by about $100 or so.

And ideally Apple will re-build the thermal solution in the MBA, maybe replace it with a dual fan and better thermal material. My ol' 2013 13" MBA gets ridiculously hot at the smallest amount of effort, which really puts me off doing anything intense of the little guy.

 

[Woochoo]

And ideally Apple will re-build the thermal solution in the MBA, maybe replace it with a dual fan and better thermal material. My ol' 2013 13" MBA gets ridiculously hot at the smallest amount of effort, which really puts me off doing anything intense of the little guy.

Even tho Air is not meant to be used for heavy loads, it's the only thing I have for now to code and compile. My solution was smcFanControl + repasting it with Kryonauts or any good thermal paste. With the paste alone it dropped 7-8ºC baseline at same room temp.
On the smcFanCntrol part I made 3 fan profiles: 1 silent at 2000rpm (+800 than baseline, but barely audible in a silent room), a 4200 when it hits 65ºC, and a 6500 (max speed) under heavy load. With this last profile it never passes 72-74C, temperature at which the Air usually starts throttling and acting like a brick. Anyway if you hit high temps let's say at a 2000 or 4200rpm fan profile, it will ramp up to the max, but you will throttle before doing so, so I usually put it to the max when doing something heavy and forget about it.

 

[Pugly]

Apple puts the 28watt chips in the 13" Pro... which most other computers don't. The Air and other ultrabooks get the 15watt chips usually.

I think this usually isn't that drastic of a concern as people make it out to be. The Pro is faster, but not drastically so, and when doing turboboost... they get close to the same speed.

When I crunched the numbers, it seemed like each Air was about as powerful as last years Pro.

The power difference boils down to nice to have... but I wouldn't say it's essential. If you need the absolute most power, then 15" is the way to go... or just use a desktop.

The nice upgrade will be going to quad core... if it stays dual core while the pro is a quad... that will be a big performance boost. But if it's using the same class of CPU as before it should be quad and be somewhat close to the 13" Pro...

Personally I'd probably just get the Air replacement to keep the function keys...