New 16 for music production concerns

[garrel]

Hi,
i'm interested in the new 16. But i have some concerns and it seems impossible to find useful info since the product is brand new.
First of all. The t2 chip related issues. As i'm aware this problem(glitching through external audio interfaces) has not been addressed in the previous generation(touch bar, t2 machines, 2016-2019).
Then the lack of usb-a ports. For connecting external hardware the usb-c to usb-a dongle is really sufficient? In some gear that is supposed to be powered through usb(like budget-compact audio interfaces or midi controllers) do you also need an external powered usb hub?
Anyway, as far as i'm a mac user and really appreciate the whole environment, it's really disappointing seeing apple not giving a **** about a really big important piece of their audience(at least in the past).

 

[leman]

Then the lack of usb-a ports. For connecting external hardware the usb-c to usb-a dongle is really sufficient? In some gear that is supposed to be powered through usb(like budget-compact audio interfaces or midi controllers) do you also need an external powered usb hub?

I can't comment on your first question, but I can answer this one. USB-C is just a state-of-the art USB port, it supports everything that USB-A ports support but also have more features. So you can use any standard USB cable (with C connector on one side and A connector on the other) to connect your peripherals without any issues. If you need to connect multiple USB-A devices, a hub would work. If you want to power multiple USB devices through the hub though you'd need to look at the hub's specs. if I remember correctly, the MacBook Pro can provide up to 15W of charging power to an external device, so if you use suitable cables, you should be fine.

 

[fs454]

Hi,
i'm interested in the new 16. But i have some concerns and it seems impossible to find useful info since the product is brand new.
First of all. The t2 chip related issues. As i'm aware this problem(glitching through external audio interfaces) has not been addressed in the previous generation(touch bar, t2 machines, 2016-2019).
Then the lack of usb-a ports. For connecting external hardware the usb-c to usb-a dongle is really sufficient? In some gear that is supposed to be powered through usb(like budget-compact audio interfaces or midi controllers) do you also need an external powered usb hub?
Anyway, as far as i'm a mac user and really appreciate the whole environment, it's really disappointing seeing apple not giving a **** about a really big important piece of their audience(at least in the past).

The T2 chip intercepts kernel panics and reports on them, it's not necessarily the T2 every time, and the T2 was introduced with the 2018 MacBook Pro, not the 2016. This is a very, very, very small percentage of users affected. Nonetheless, the problems are in software and not hardware.

USB-A is over. USB-C has no issues powering anything via dongles, you don't need any additional power sources no mater what in any normal scenario - these ports are capable of outputting more power than USB-A was rated for. The only situation where this would not apply is if you plan on using one of those junk USB hubs with like 8 USB ports. Of course you'd need separate power to those just as you would on an older USB-A equipped notebook. The ports are also Thunderbolt 3 (and by extension, Thunderbolt 2) ports. I know more than a few prominent music producers who love and run their whole studios off of USB-C MBPs. It's a non-issue. Your argument that they don't give a **** is one hundred percent false.

 

[garrel]

Thank you guys. I really appreciate you took time to answer. It's very helpful.

I know more than a few prominent music producers who love and run their whole studios off of USB-C MBPs. It's a non-issue. Your argument that they don't give a **** is one hundred percent false.

I don't think this is false or a non-issue. There are plenty of articles in music magazines that cover this situation. When I started using macbooks 15 years ago there was no competition with win laptops. Mac was the only way to go. Now that isn't necessarily true. All mac users I know in the music scene are thinking of switching to windows. Many pro audio interfaces(motu and many other top brands) crash with t2 equipped pros. Even new drivers didn't solve the issue completely and all in the industry are blaming apple for that. 13 base models have only 2 ports. 99% of audio equipment(interface, controllers, midi keyboards etc.) is USB 2.0 or 3.0 and that means you are forced to buy dongles and maybe powered hubs. The lack of MagSafe, that was so useful on stage to prevent your MacBook falling. Many cables around and people on stage(crew, band members, sound engineers, roadies...) and you can guess why it was essential on stage. Ipads without 3,5 jack, at least the pro model... I don't know if you are a producer, but if not I can assure you these things matters. So yeah, maybe I'm wrong, but it feels like they are focusing on a different type of audience now. It's not criticism, just realism. I hope not anyway and I'm also interested in their new line. In the other case I will think of another reliable brand.

 

[Boneheadxan]

I've been using a Mac for music production since 2005. I honestly didn't see much of a problem when Apple switched to USB-C and the Touchbar. I like both of them. Sure, you had to get some dongles and the slimmer machines had thermal issues. But, I've been running massive sessions on the laptops since 2013 (250+ tracks). I ended up selling both my Mac Pros since I could pull my sessions on the laptop without compromising a lot.

Now, the T2 issue you mentioned wasn't present on the 2016 models. It popped up afaik in the 2018 models. I have the 2016 MBP which still runs flawlessly. My 2018 MacMini had some of the T2 issues, namely low buffer playback had crackles/issues. Apple fixed most of the issues a while back. I was in touch with some of the audio dept guys at Apple while they were investigating the issue back in Dec 2018, sending them reports. They were fully aware of the problem and a software update resolved it.

My 2019 16" MBP hasn't shown any of the T2 related issues yet. The only problem I currently have is the popping when skipping through tracks on Youtube for example. It doesn't bother me too much for pro audio work since I'm don't use the internal sound card for work. Low buffer playback in DAWs (Logic, Nuendo) works really well, even better than the Mac Mini. I'm not sure about Motu, but I have the UAD Apollo X, Apogee Symphony and RME UFX working flawlessly.

As mentioned above, USB-C is better than USB-A, zero issues with any controllers, synths, midi interfaces or audio interfaces.

Hope this helps!

 

[3SQ Machine]

I tested a 3.0 ghz i5 '18 Mac Mini with the T2 at 32 buffer on logic pro x and had clicks/pops galore. 64 no problem. This was just a month ago. Unclear whether it was T2 as there were monitor problems, but even with the monitors running off an eGPU the mini couldn't handle low buffer size. One core just spiked at all times.

32 buffer on 3.0 ghz iMac (same processor specs + dGPU + NO T2) had no pops/clicks. Again, same test project, same low buffer settings, same "active track" selected.

Not a "firm" answer but the T2 mystery + monitor issues were enough to convince me to return the mini and keep the iMac. It was also VERY hard to get help on resolving these issues.

Entirely possible that 16" with integrated screen + dGPU makes this a non-issue, T2 or not.

 

[brownbird]

I hate to jump on the bandwagon, as it sounds like your concerns tie to your specific use case. But, as a musician, I connect all of my USB-A devices through a powered Anker hub which supplies 36W of bus power (way more than I could use). I think we should anticipate that most hardware won't support USB-A moving forward. TBH it's quite convenient because multiple usb devices can connect and be powered from a single cable. I also haven't heard of any pro music users using the internal sound card for anything. Most folks use an Apogee Duet or UA Apollo due to their small form factor and better audio quality. In some cases this also offloads some audio processing to the audio interface hardware, freeing up your CPU and RAM to do their thing.

I'll agree with you specifically on one point, I did love MagSafe and I'll miss that. Something you might try is mounting a surge protector on whatever platform you use to hold your laptop and simply plug into that. You could also power all of your devices from the single surge protector and run one long power cable to the on stage power outlet(s).
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I tested a 3.0 ghz i5 '18 Mac Mini with the T2 at 32 buffer on logic pro x and had clicks/pops galore. 64 no problem. This was just a month ago. Unclear whether it was T2 as there were monitor problems, but even with the monitors running off an eGPU the mini couldn't handle low buffer size. One core just spiked at all times.

32 buffer on 3.0 ghz iMac (same processor specs + dGPU + NO T2) had no pops/clicks. Again, same test project, same low buffer settings, same "active track" selected.

Not a "firm" answer but the T2 mystery + monitor issues were enough to convince me to return the mini and keep the iMac. It was also VERY hard to get help on resolving these issues.

Entirely possible that 16" with integrated screen + dGPU makes this a non-issue, T2 or not.

32 is an insanely low buffer setting. Most machines would choke on that, causing pops and clicks that are unrelated to the T2 chip.

 

[3SQ Machine]

32 is an insanely low buffer setting. Most machines would choke on that, causing pops and clicks that are unrelated to the T2 chip.

Agreed, but the point of my "test project" is to stress the system to determine what the machine is capable of (within the 14 day return window). My 2013 i5 was able to handle it at 32 (barely) without overloads (it's an older project with no crazy intensive virtual instruments). So was the '19 3.0, but not the mini. Again, not sure if T2 the culprit but it's possible.

 

[Fishrrman]

"The t2 chip related issues.
Then the lack of usb-a ports."

Well, for music production, the answer is as easy as it gets:
Get a 27" iMac instead.

NO t2 chip.
4 USBa ports and 2 USBc ports.

And a big display for audio timelines and tool panels.

 

[garrel]

My 2019 16" MBP hasn't shown any of the T2 related issues yet. The only problem I currently have is the popping when skipping through tracks on Youtube for example. It doesn't bother me too much for pro audio work since I'm don't use the internal sound card for work. Low buffer playback in DAWs (Logic, Nuendo) works really well, even better than the Mac Mini. I'm not sure about Motu, but I have the UAD Apollo X, Apogee Symphony and RME UFX working flawlessly.

As mentioned above, USB-C is better than USB-A, zero issues with any controllers, synths, midi interfaces or audio interfaces.

Hope this helps!

Yeah it helps a lot. Thanks.

I hate to jump on the bandwagon, as it sounds like your concerns tie to your specific use case. But, as a musician, I connect all of my USB-A devices through a powered Anker hub which supplies 36W of bus power (way more than I could use). I think we should anticipate that most hardware won't support USB-A moving forward. TBH it's quite convenient because multiple usb devices can connect and be powered from a single cable.

Thanks. So for running an external USB powered audio interface is it sufficient the usbc to usba dongle?

 

[g75d3]

 

[garrel]

Thanks. It's not just the guy in the video. There are thousand comments of people pissed with t2 macs... It seems that it just doesn't work with many usb interfaces.*
I know that for someone everything would work perfect. But the reality seems to be a little different.
I opened this thread since i was curious about the new 16. Maybe it's just too soon. But the problem is there and apparently they didn't fix it.

*if you dig through the comment section there are people with the new 16 experimenting glitch and stuff on usb interfaces.

 

[brownbird]

Yeah it helps a lot. Thanks.


Thanks. So for running an external USB powered audio interface is it sufficient the usbc to usba dongle?

Yeah, the a USB A to USB C dongle works with no issues to connect the hub to the computer. As usual, you should check the power requirements of any connected devices. You can do this in System Report with the USB interface you are investigating connected and reference the USB section. It will show the power draw that the device is receiving.

 

[g75d3]

Just curious, if Apple would fix this issue on new Mac Pro with T2 chip.

 

[Zadillo]

The MBP 16 can handle a ton:

Jon Sine goes through and has a small buffer and loads it with tons of Diva and Serum instances
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Btw, I’m using the Focusrite Scarlett 3rd gen 4i4 audio interface with no issues at all, have used it both with direct USB C connection and connected through a CalDigit TS3+ hub

 

[brownbird]

Daang he was brutal on that machine! This makes me extremely pumped to unbox my 16!

 

[g75d3]

Yeah, the most annoying thing is that for some combination of hardware/software it works perfectly, for others random dropouts occur.

 

[garrel]

Yes, but usb 2.0 is a standard for audio equipment. Many people still have problems and apple should point this out. At least a list of gear supported. I was waiting and hopeful they would fix the reliability issues with the new line. And also t2... A lot of confusion online too. Maybe we just have to wait and see.

 

[garrel]

Yeah, the a USB A to USB C dongle works with no issues to connect the hub to the computer. As usual, you should check the power requirements of any connected devices. You can do this in System Report with the USB interface you are investigating connected and reference the USB section. It will show the power draw that the device is receiving.

Thanks. Anyway i meant interface[usb-a]-->dongle[usb-c], no hub. Many interfaces are powered directly through usb as they don't require much.

Btw, I’m using the Focusrite Scarlett 3rd gen 4i4 audio interface with no issues at all, have used it both with direct USB C connection and connected through a CalDigit TS3+ hub

This is good news. Focusrite was one of the brands that seemed to have the most problems. Are you on the new 16 right?

 

[Zadillo]

Thanks. Anyway i meant interface[usb-a]-->dongle[usb-c], no hub. Many interfaces are powered directly through usb as they don't require much.



This is good news. Focusrite was one of the brands that seemed to have the most problems. Are you on the new 16 right?

Yup - this is on the new 16 (I upgraded from a Roland Duo Capture EX that Roland no longer supports).

 

[garrel]

Yup - this is on the new 16 (I upgraded from a Roland Duo Capture EX that Roland no longer supports).

Why? That should be class-compliant. Any problem with the Roland under 16? Imho is a nicer interface than focusrite. Neat pre-amps and really stable.

 

[Zadillo]

Why? That should be class-compliant. Any problem with the Roland under 16? Imho is a nicer interface than focusrite. Neat pre-amps and really stable.

It isn’t as far as I know, and I was having trouble with the driver:

https://www.roland.com/us/support/b...drivers/f6210f5f-84c8-4a5c-8147-fbd1a0204892/

This was on my previous 2017 MBP, I haven’t bothered trying to use it with the 16” MBP

The Focusrite sounds much better to me, I’m getting much lower latency and I like the Focusrite Control software a lot more

 

[brownbird]

Thanks. Anyway i meant interface[usb-a]-->dongle[usb-c], no hub. Many interfaces are powered directly through usb as they don't require much.



This is good news. Focusrite was one of the brands that seemed to have the most problems. Are you on the new 16 right?

Ah I see. Well FWIW a USB device can still draw power from the host computer even if it's not using a powered USB hub. Also, a dongle should still draw power.

 

[garrel]

It isn’t as far as I know, and I was having trouble with the driver:

https://www.roland.com/us/support/b...drivers/f6210f5f-84c8-4a5c-8147-fbd1a0204892/

This was on my previous 2017 MBP, I haven’t bothered trying to use it with the 16” MBP

The Focusrite sounds much better to me, I’m getting much lower latency and I like the Focusrite Control software a lot more

Strange as they still supported drivers for older interfaces for catalina... Anyway i don't like the mic pre-amps on focusrite, too much coloured, but it's just a matter of taste.

Ah I see. Well FWIW a USB device can still draw power from the host computer even if it's not using a powered USB hub. Also, a dongle should still draw power.

Thanks.

 

[boomspot]

No issues here. Running the 16” with universal audio Apollo and Arrow interfaces. Had to pick up a few USBC to A and B cables for $10 each to connect midi controllers, no biggie. Small Anker hub works well for ilok and e-licenser dongles.