New Backup Solution for My Macs

[RogerWilco6502]

So I have come up against the limits of my current backup "system" (really just a bunch of drives I plug into computers). I have the need and desire to back up four data hard drives and six Macs running both the Classic Mac OS and Mac OS X (and preferrably room for expansion on that number). I know nothing about actual backup systems designed to serve multiple computers and drives, so any recommendations for places to start looking or low-cost systems with good expandability are greatly appreciated.

 

[eyoungren]

One of the major reasons for using my B&W G3 is for backups. I have a 2TB RAID enclosure attached and my G3 receives backups from a 17" MBP, a 17" PB, a Mac Pro, a 2.3 Dual Core G5, a 2.7Ghz Dual Processor G5, a 12" PowerBook and a 15" MBP.

I use Carbon Copy Cloner in all cases to create sparsebundles (which Tiger on the G3 understands). CCC lets you set a time schedule for your backups and you can make as many backups as you desire for whatever you want to backup to wherever you want to backup (including network drives). CCC allows you to 'fail silently' if the target drive is not present when the backup goes off and it will prompt you for backup (or skip) if a backup is missed.

My MP also backs up (using CCC) it's media drive to my G4 that has two 3TB internal drives.

Since I use sparsebundles, the data is compressed and the app sees a 'drive' large enough to accommodate the backup. Collectively, it all fits on a 2TB RAID. Since these are disk images then, I can transfer them to any media to facilitate a recovery. Further, I have 3TB in Dropbox so periodically I will push these up to Dropbox so that I can access them anywhere should I need to.

My only issue is that since Tiger (the G3 uses Tiger Server) does not understand sparse disk images (although sparse bundles are DMGs) I cannot use them. I've had problems moving those around in the past because Tiger sees them as folders and not DMGs.

I was using Time Machine for years, but the variety of OS that I use was causing complications, many of which were causing the G3 to lock up during a backup. So, CCC became the solution. CCC will also automatically mount the network drive/share/DMG you specify and then eject it when done. Another reason I use it.

Finally, when logged in, CCC also backs up the server to the RAID so there's a sparsebundle DMG of the server too.

So far it's worked out pretty well.

 

[RogerWilco6502]

One of the major reasons for using my B&W G3 is for backups. I have a 2TB RAID enclosure attached and my G3 receives backups from a 17" MBP, a 17" PB, a Mac Pro, a 2.3 Dual Core G5, a 2.7Ghz Dual Processor G5, a 12" PowerBook and a 15" MBP.

I use Carbon Copy Cloner in all cases to create sparsebundles (which Tiger on the G3 understands). CCC lets you set a time schedule for your backups and you can make as many backups as you desire for whatever you want to backup to wherever you want to backup (including network drives). CCC allows you to 'fail silently' if the target drive is not present when the backup goes off and it will prompt you for backup (or skip) if a backup is missed.

My MP also backs up (using CCC) it's media drive to my G4 that has two 3TB internal drives.

Since I use sparsebundles, the data is compressed and the app sees a 'drive' large enough to accommodate the backup. Collectively, it all fits on a 2TB RAID. Since these are disk images then, I can transfer them to any media to facilitate a recovery. Further, I have 3TB in Dropbox so periodically I will push these up to Dropbox so that I can access them anywhere should I need to.

My only issue is that since Tiger (the G3 uses Tiger Server) does not understand sparse disk images (although sparse bundles are DMGs) I cannot use them. I've had problems moving those around in the past because Tiger sees them as folders and not DMGs.

I was using Time Machine for years, but the variety of OS that I use was causing complications, many of which were causing the G3 to lock up during a backup. So, CCC became the solution. CCC will also automatically mount the network drive/share/DMG you specify and then eject it when done. Another reason I use it.

Finally, when logged in, CCC also backs up the server to the RAID so there's a sparsebundle DMG of the server too.

So far it's worked out pretty well.

Ok, thank you! I'm already using CCC, so the transition should be super simple! I just need to buy an adequate RAID enclosure

 

[eyoungren]

Ok, thank you! I'm already using CCC, so the transition should be super simple! I just need to buy an adequate RAID enclosure

I recommend Fantom Drives if you can find one on eBay. You have to provide your own hard drives though.

 

[RogerWilco6502]

I recommend Fantom Drives if you can find one on eBay. You have to provide your own hard drives though.

Ok, thank you! Storage is cheap, especially spinners, so I'm not too concerned on that front.

 

[philgxxd]

Not so cheap...i just paid 120€ for a 4TB WD Blue. Locally though, so i paid a little premium consciously to support my neighbor's shop.

 

[RogerWilco6502]

Not so cheap...i just paid 120€ for a 4TB WD Blue. Locally though, so i paid a little premium consciously to support my neighbor's shop.

Ah, ok. Thanks for the pricing tip. Hopefully I can find a good deal. Now that I think about it, I might need a 4TB drive to accommodate all of my machines.

 

[Project Alice]

I have a FreeNAS server set up with RAID5, 4 x 4TB drives. I don’t have full OSes backed up. I just manually back up files and apps as need be. The FreeNAS server is setup with a PPC share that has all my PPC stuff backed up, and I also have most the same stuff in different spots on different macs. My modern Mac and PC backups go the same way. Extremely important things I have on bluray discs.

if something weird happens I can always reinstall everything I had on there. I do have an external FW drive with Leopard and Tiger that I can either clone a full updated install using CCC, or I can boot the installers and install fresh.
I’m gonna be working on one with the older versions of Mac OS X eventually. I wanted to add them to the current one but for some reason it refuses to resize.

 

[RogerWilco6502]

I have a FreeNAS server set up with RAID5, 4 x 4TB drives. I don’t have full OSes backed up. I just manually back up files and apps as need be. The FreeNAS server is setup with a PPC share that has all my PPC stuff backed up, and I also have most the same stuff in different spots on different macs. My modern Mac and PC backups go the same way. Extremely important things I have on bluray discs.

if something weird happens I can always reinstall everything I had on there. I do have an external FW drive with Leopard and Tiger that I can either clone a full updated install using CCC, or I can boot the installers and install fresh.
I’m gonna be working on one with the older versions of Mac OS X eventually. I wanted to add them to the current one but for some reason it refuses to resize.

Nice!

I definitely think a NAS or a file server with a RAID is what I'll be looking at. My current setup is way to cumbersome.

 

[Alexis Trinquet]

Nice!

I definitely think a NAS or a file server with a RAID is what I'll be looking at. My current setup is way to cumbersome.

If you're considering RAID, avoid RAID 0 like plague, if one drive fails you lose all the data. Go with RAID 1 if you value redudency (some suggest 5 or 6, but so far I've only used RAID 1 or 10) instead.

Personally I have a LaCie 2big Quadra (found it cheap at a garage sale, so for 20 euros, I thought "sure why not") enclosure with two HDDs (500GB each) in RAID 0, as soon as I get larger HDDs I'll run 'em in RAID1, or I'll just find a 4big Quadra and use that instead.

Eventually I'll soon whip up a DAS with a boatload of HDDs and set up a OMV box with a few shares for system images and whatnot.

 

[Amethyst1]

Go with RAID 1 or 10

10 is short for 1+0 (two mirrored volumes striped together) so I'd avoid that for a backup drive as well.

 

[RogerWilco6502]

If you're considering RAID, avoid RAID 0 like plague, if one drive fails you lose all the data. Go with RAID 1 or 10 (some suggest 5 or 6, but so far I've only used RAID 1 or 10) instead.

Personally I have a LaCie 2big Quadra (found it cheap at a garage sale, so for 20 euros, I thought "sure why not") enclosure with two HDDs (500GB each) in RAID 0, as soon as I get larger HDDs I'll run 'em in RAID1, or I'll just find a 4big Quadra and use that instead.

Eventually I'll soon whip up a DAS with a boatload of HDDs and set up a OMV box with a few shares for system images and whatnot.

Thanks for the advice! I was thinking RAID1 because of the reliability and low cost of entry.

10 is short for 1+0 (two mirrored volumes striped together) so I'd avoid that for a backup drive as well.

Is there such a thing as RAID01, or two stripped drives mirrored?

 

[Amethyst1]

Is there such a thing as RAID01, or two stripped drives mirrored?

Yep, that's 0+1.

 

[RogerWilco6502]

Yep, that's 0+1.

And that would be the one that gives the benefits of both? Speed and redundancy?

 

[Amethyst1]

And that would be the one that gives the benefits of both? Speed and redundancy?

Yes, both 0+1 and 1+0 will provide speed and redundancy. 1+0 is much more common though - and safer, looking at this:

Is there a difference between RAID 10 (1+0) and RAID 01 (0+1)?

I've seen both of these listed, both being striped and mirrored across multiple drives, but is the a difference between them that I'm not picking up on?

serverfault.com

 

[RogerWilco6502]

Yes, both 0+1 and 1+0 will provide speed and redundancy. 1+0 is much more common though - and safer, looking at this:

Is there a difference between RAID 10 (1+0) and RAID 01 (0+1)?

I've seen both of these listed, both being striped and mirrored across multiple drives, but is the a difference between them that I'm not picking up on?

serverfault.com

Ok, cool. Thanks

 

[Amethyst1]

If you have enough disks (at least 8) and are crazy enough, you can do e.g. RAID 100 - two RAID 1s of two disks each, striped together (1+0) and then striped again (1+0+0).

 

[RogerWilco6502]

If you have enough disks (at least 8) and are crazy enough, you can do e.g. RAID 100 - two RAID 1s of two disks each, striped together (1+0) and then striped again (1+0+0).

I'd be crazy enough to try that x3

 

[Alexis Trinquet]

If you have enough disks (at least 8) and are crazy enough, you can do e.g. RAID 100 - two RAID 1s of two disks each, striped together (1+0) and then striped again (1+0+0).

Ohhh y'all bet I'm really tempted to try, I just need to find two DASes (disk shelves) and a SAS RAID card that has two external SAS connectors.

(now to find the shelf, cables and drives. I think I know someone who could lend me a RAID card)