New enquiry on an 'old' astronomy clip.

[Dubdrifter]

Hi ..... the Moderators thought my last thread was going off topic and suggested this video should be in a separate thread. So here it is:

As discussed on the aforementioned thread .... this clip comes from a site with obvious poor quality CGI 'fake' material on it ..... but this clip .... which is the only one I want feedback on .... looks to my inexperienced eyes to be fairly 'genuine'.
Is it a diamond in the rough? ..... and if it is .... it throws up serious questions about the huge object parked temporarily close to the Sun, questions like:

1) Is it natural?
2) If so, how is it formed?
3) What is it doing?
4) It's behaviour seems quite deliberately 'controlled', do you agree?
5) How does this object resist the sun's radiation, gravitational 'pull'?
6) Where is this object now?
7) Has it been detected before?
8) Is their anymore data on this object?

My request is to ask professional astronomers/video CGI assessment experts/scientists and anyone else with a sensible opinion during their coffee breaks, to analyse this video seriously in detail to confirm or deny with reasonable evidence/explanation whether it is a 'diamond in the rough'?

Further Questions:
9)The video quality looks good, but there is no data on the clip as to date/time/telescope/filter etc and the reverse view of the object in the second half of the clip, does that suggest the footage is from StereoA and Stereo B or some other combination?

10) .... and thus does the viewing angle between the telescope perspectives corroborate to confirm this is 'genuine' footage?

As astronomers get their own independent data feeds from telescopes around the Sun, which we assume aren't in any way tampered with by NASA/others before data reaches Helioviewer.org etc .... could they post their original data on this sighting, if it is genuine, on their official websites, so we have a reputable source to reference for further analysis in future?

Then we can have a more serious discussion on it's implications.

Footnote:
[Moderators have advised me I broke forum rules in my last thread .... with a series of cutting comments to 3 people, who claimed to be scientists, but persistently bombarding my last thread with references to off topic/off forum material designed to 'pull the thread down'. Apologies to those concerned who were offended.
In future, if you see this definition in reply to your posting you will know you are in danger of being reported to Moderators:
Internet trollerson who sows discord on the Internet.In Internet slang, a troll is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal, on-topic discussion, often for the troll's amusemen.Wikipedia

- but if you have said something really funny, you will definitely get a free pass!

There is no excuse, being patient and polite is the way I should react, because I know these comments come with the territory of astronomy topics I like to discuss.
Evidence for higher/advanced intelligences in our Solar System as detected from the ISS and Helioviewer, earth telescopes and other types of detectors, cameras etc.... I've noticed over the years most Western professional astronomers/scientists treat the subject as a 'joke' .... often ridiculing those on Youtube etc who want to discuss it seriously, (but sometimes proffer rather 'stupid' explanations which damages their credibility).
If the 'professional' community was engaged in this public discussion, much erroneous speculation would evaporate .... and if professionals were openly and freely able to express their opinions 'without ridicule and a risk from authority their funding will be cut', and maybe able to contribute with data NASA has chosen not to show us..... maybe we can all work together to solve this topic that the general public wants answers to.

We pay enough tax dollars to allow astronomers and scientists the luxury of swanning off to luxury locations to chase your hobbies .... so we deserve at least that respect - and expert feedback on a topic related to their pet subject.

This forum is an ideal discussion platform for this to happen, not too serious, it reaches professionals, open to all during their coffee break .... talking in a language we can all understand .... and you can post anonymously.

We need a sea change in the astronomy community in the West to make this happen ..... your Russian cousins don't seem to have your hang-ups ..... it's up to you ..... no topic should be off limits in a FREE society. And you shouldn't be 'forced' to post anonymously by 'blackmailers' in authority.

The question is …. Can astronomers and others here prove the West is still free to discuss anything under the Sun, and respond to my genuine enquiry.]

That 4-day silence the last time I asked this question …. was quite eerie …. but it did explain a few suspicions I had.

 

[obeygiant]

Do you think NASA put the scary music in the video or is it natural sound?

 

[Cartaphilus]

Do you think NASA put the scary music in the video or is it natural sound?

THAT'S funny!

 

[daflake]

And here we go again!

My question to you is... How can you possibly believe that is even close to being real?

 

[Scepticalscribe]

And here we go again!

My question to you is... How can you possibly believe that is even close to being real?

Agreed.

And my question to the OP is when you would like to discuss something that strikes you as strange, why write posts that will come across as an attempt to deliberately antagonise anyone who is likely to disagree with your perceptions?

For one thing, it strikes me as counter-productive.

If I had not already arrived at the conclusion that your posts suggest that you are unusually prone to seek evidence in support of your stance, and disregard that which doesn't - that your posts seem to seek out a sort of confirmation-bias - the tone alone of your posts would serve to alienate me as it does not encourage anyone to seek to engage with you on such matters.

 

[daflake]

I also wonder what mod told him that he should start another thread for that video. My guess is that they didn't.

 

[obeygiant]

What I think this thread should really be about, Oumuamua, the interstellar object that just flew through our solar system over the last year:

Although it looks like an asteroid, the first interstellar object spotted passing through the solar system, called 'Oumuamua, may be more like a comet in disguise.

When astronomers first spotted the oblong, tumbling interstellar object 'Oumuamua passing through the solar system in October, they were surprised — not only did it come from outside the solar system, according to its trajectory, it seemed to be an asteroid, rather than the comet researchers thought was more likely for an interstellar visitor.

However, a new paper suggests 'Oumuamua may be made of ice, like a comet, just disguised with a protective crust.

"Given that this object passed relatively close to our sun as it was travelling through our solar system, one would expect any ices on the surface to basically be heated and it should behave like a comet," Fitzsimmons said. "We should see gas streaming off the surface, we should see dust particles being ejected in the cometary atmosphere, perhaps even a tail."

But astronomers observing 'Oumuamua with their telescopes have seen no signs of such a behavior. They concluded that the object must be rocky in nature — an asteroid. However, when Fitzsimmons and his colleagues examined data on the surface of the object more closely, they found it doesn't look like a typical asteroid either.

"We didn't see any signs of typical spectroscopic signatures that you would expect from the minerals on the surface of an asteroid we see in our solar system," Fitzsimmons said. "It rather seems to resemble the [icy] objects that are there in the outer solar system. That kind of got our head scratching. If the object had, originally at least, ice in it, what's happened to it?"

Fitzsimmons and his colleagues looked at older studies and laboratory experiments that tried to find out what happens to icy bodies, such as comets, that are exposed for a long time to energetic particles and cosmic rays. These studies suggest that the ice from the surface layers of such bodies evaporates because of the cosmic environment.

link​

Everything about this story reminded me of Arthur C. Clarke's Rendezvous with Rama:


Set in the 2130s, the story involves a 50-kilometre (31 mi) cylindrical alien starship that enters Earth's solar system. The story is told from the point of view of a group of human explorers who intercept the ship in an attempt to unlock its mysteries. The novel won both the Hugo[4] and Nebula[5] awards upon its release, and is regarded as one of the cornerstones in Clarke's bibliography. The concept was later extended with several sequels.

After an asteroid falls in Northeast Italy in 2077, creating a major disaster, the government of Earth sets up the Spaceguard system as an early warning of arrivals from deep space.

The "Rama" of the title is an alien starship, initially mistaken for an asteroid categorised as "31/439". It is detected by astronomers in the year 2131 while it is still outside the orbit of Jupiter. Its speed (100,000 km/h) and the angle of its trajectory clearly indicate it is not on a long orbit around the sun, but comes from interstellar space. The astronomers' interest is further piqued when they realise the asteroid has an extremely rapid rotation period of 4 minutes and is exceptionally large. It is named Rama after the Hindu god,[6] and an unmanned space probe dubbed Sita is launched from the Mars moon Phobos to intercept and photograph it. The resulting images reveal that Rama is a perfect cylinder, 20 kilometres (12 mi) in diameter and 54 kilometres (34 mi) long, and almost completely featureless, making this humankind's first encounter with an alien spacecraft.

The solar survey vessel Endeavour is sent to study Rama, as it is the only ship close enough to do so in the brief period Rama will spend in the solar system. Endeavour manages to rendezvous with Rama one month after it first comes to Earth's attention, when the alien ship is already inside Venus' orbit. The crew, led by Commander Bill Norton, enters Rama through a dual safety system consisting of two sets of triple airlocks, and explores the vast 16-km wide by 50-km long cylindrical world of its interior, but the nature and purpose of the starship and its creators remain enigmatic throughout the book. Rama's inner surfaces hold vast "cities" of geometric structures that resemble buildings and are separated by streets with shallow trenches. A mammoth band of water, dubbed the Cylindrical Sea, stretches around Rama's central circumference. Massive cones, which the astronauts theorise are part of Rama's propulsion system, stand at its 'southern' end. They also find that Rama's atmosphere is breathable.

​

 

[Dubdrifter]

And here we go again!My question to you is...How can you possibly believe that is even close to being real?

Hi Daflake and Sceptical Scribe …. welcome back!

…. Because it looks very similar to hours of other footage on Helioviewer? And the detail is pretty good. The two viewing angles were interesting?

In the OP?

"My request is to ask professional astronomers/video CGI assessment experts/scientists and anyone else with a sensible opinion during their coffee breaks, to analyse this video seriously in detail to confirm or deny with reasonable evidence/explanation whether it is a 'diamond in the rough'?"

The clip has been posted a while in the previous thread, and a few days on this thread and nobody has given me serious analysis proving this video is 'Fake'. It is easy to say something is FAKE, and slapping the word 'Fake' over a video doesn't prove it is fake ….. the reason I ask for feedback from experts is because they should be able to give me the detailed clues, hopefully through their video analysis technology that breaks down to a pixel level the areas of this video that might be CGI'd.
And if it's CGI'd from scratch maybe astronomers might be able to calculate the viewing angles of the two perspectives to the object in relation to known sun telescope positions to see if the 'CGI" has errors in it.

If nobody can do that, then we can progress to assuming the footage is real and hopefully astronomers will be kind enough to have a go at answering the other 9 questions on my list.

Thank you for your time.

What I think this thread should really be about, Oumuamua, the interstellar object that just flew through our solar system over the last year:

Much as I enjoyed your post, Obeygiant ….. getting a slight feeling you need to create your own dedicated thread on that subject.

Your detailed analysis on this subject would be appreciated ….. do you think this video is genuine footage and if not , what details in the video give a clue it's composite?

 

[daflake]

Hi Daflake and Sceptical Scribe …. welcome back!

…. Because it looks very similar to hours of other footage on Helioviewer? And the detail is pretty good. The two viewing angles were interesting?

In the OP?

"My request is to ask professional astronomers/video CGI assessment experts/scientists and anyone else with a sensible opinion during their coffee breaks, to analyse this video seriously in detail to confirm or deny with reasonable evidence/explanation whether it is a 'diamond in the rough'?"

The clip has been posted a while in the previous thread, and a few days on this thread and nobody has given me serious analysis proving this video is 'Fake'. It is easy to say something is FAKE, and slapping the word 'Fake' over a video doesn't prove it is fake ….. the reason I ask for feedback from experts is because they should be able to give me the detailed clues, hopefully through their video analysis technology that breaks down to a pixel level the areas of this video that might be CGI'd.
And if it's CGI'd from scratch maybe astronomers might be able to calculate the viewing angles of the two perspectives to the object in relation to known sun telescope positions to see if the 'CGI" has errors in it.

If nobody can do that, then we can progress to assuming the footage is real and hopefully astronomers will be kind enough to have a go at answering the other 9 questions on my list.

Thank you for your time.



Much as I enjoyed your post, Obeygiant ….. getting a slight feeling you need to create your own dedicated thread on that subject.

Your detailed analysis on this subject would be appreciated ….. do you think this video is genuine footage and if not , what details in the video give a clue it's composite?

It is fabricated hogwash. Here is another question.... If aliens did come here, don't you think that more than just NASA would have captured that? We don't have people guarding our atmosphere and what makes you think the aliens would find our leaders first.

Hogwash... and please stop using the term Astronomy in your titles. At best this is more SETI which I do follow but your stuff is all conspiracy theory with government cover ups in it. Our government can't even talk to one another without opening their mouths and getting in trouble, what makes you think they are capable of covering something like what you are suggesting?

 

[maflynn]

[MOD NOTE]
This thread is just one big argument - closing it down