New member intro, back into PPC with a G5

[feelingsupersonic]

Hi guys, decided to finally make an account on here after seeing the active community and helpful posts whenever I've searched for something PPC related.

I snagged a dual 2.5 GHz Power Mac G5 last month in 10/10 condition and am looking forward to getting back into PPC ownership. I've already installed a 120gb Samsung SSD and 6gb of RAM, and on 10.5.8, it's purring like a kitten. I'm looking into a possible GPU upgrade but I'm honestly not sure if it's worth it. While you're reading this, could you drop your 2 cents on the "quality of life" improvement you got from a GPU upgrade on a G5 if you have been there, done that? Mine is a 2004 model with the AGP Radeon 9600.

A little about me - I sold my last PowerPC Mac in around 2010 but have decided to come back primarily for nostalgic reasons. I had a B&W 300mhz G3 Power Mac and later traded up to a 800mhz Quicksilver G4, which I used as my everyday machine for quite a while. Eventually I made the leap to a 2010 MBP which I still use daily (and am typing this on), going strong with an SSD and the RAM maxed at 8gb on High Sierra. It's looking like a new MBP is in order soon though, hopefully I can stretch that one for an entire decade as well.

Thanks for having me,
Michael

 

[wicknix]

Welcome. I can't speak for the GPU, but software-wise to get the most out of leopard search this forum for leopard-webkit (safari 11 update), TenFourFox, Iceweasel-PPC browsers, TenFiveTube, SMTube, and youtube in general for multiple ways to watch youtube, (some linked in my signature) check out the browser tweaks threads to speed up browsing, check out the leopard tweak threads to shut off extra visual bloat, etc. Lots of great resources in this forum keeping these old battle axes relevant.

Cheers

 

[eyoungren]

I've got a Quad G5 with a Radeon X1900 XT. I don't do much gaming but it drives my HDTV as one of my displays (I have six via three video cards).

I've also got a 2.3DC G5 with an NVIDIA FX4500 Quadro. Works great too. Unfortunately the types of monitors I have attached to it are all small fry. One of these days I'll get around to bigger displays for it.

 

[feelingsupersonic]

Thanks wicknix. I'm currently using the latest G5 release of TenFourFox, and youtube is actually working adequately in 240p. My main goal is mostly to improve the "crispness" all around, I have other rigs for Youtube and media streaming (mainly my server, to Kodi on my Apple TV 4th gen).

It just seems that scrolling through modern webpages exposes the limits of the machine. I'm not frustrated with it because I know it comes with the territory. So my main goal with a graphics card upgrade was to crisp this up a bit. However I'm not sure if that will do much, perhaps it's mainly CPU driven.

 

[defjam]

It just seems that scrolling through modern webpages exposes the limits of the machine. I'm not frustrated with it because I know it comes with the territory. So my main goal with a graphics card upgrade was to crisp this up a bit. However I'm not sure if that will do much, perhaps it's mainly CPU driven.

I just commented in another thread that I don't consider the G5 a good web system any longer. Yes, there are tweaks that can be done but I think the time has come to retire the G5 for web use. For other users it is still a very capable system. This morning I just gave away my second to last PPC system (I am keeping one specific one for nostalgia reasons).

For general system use the addition of higher end cards wouldn't have any return except the possibility of driving higher resolutions / monitors. Though take this with a grain of salt as my use of the G5 was very basic. Others would be better able to advise you.

 

[eyoungren]

Thanks wicknix. I'm currently using the latest G5 release of TenFourFox, and youtube is actually working adequately in 240p. My main goal is mostly to improve the "crispness" all around, I have other rigs for Youtube and media streaming (mainly my server, to Kodi on my Apple TV 4th gen).

It just seems that scrolling through modern webpages exposes the limits of the machine. I'm not frustrated with it because I know it comes with the territory. So my main goal with a graphics card upgrade was to crisp this up a bit. However I'm not sure if that will do much, perhaps it's mainly CPU driven.

See the stickied threads above yours for either Power UOC or my T4Fx tweaks. At a minimum you should either be running with NoScript or uMatrix.

It's the JS code that is prevalent on the net that slows things down and both these extensions allow you to alleviate most of that.
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I just commented in another thread that I don't consider the G5 a good web system any longer. Yes, there are tweaks that can be done but I think the time has come to retire the G5 for web use. For other users it is still a very capable system. This morning I just gave away my second to last PPC system (I am keeping one specific one for nostalgia reasons).

Yeah, I have to disagree here. Unless your browser use case is YT, I do very well using my Quad G5 and my modifications to T4Fx. My browsing experience is comparable to my work 2015 MBP.

 

[wicknix]

I find leopard-webkit to be the best and fastest browser for leopard. Give that a whirl. It'll be a night and day difference in page loading and scrolling compared to bloated tenfourfox. Also if you haven't already grab yourself a hosts file to block ads, it greatly increases browsing speed in all browsers. I use this one: http://winhelp2002.mvps.org/hosts.htm . Extract the archive, rename HOSTS to hosts (lowercase) and then copy it over the stock hosts file. E.G: open terminal.app, type: sudo cp /path/to/hosts /private/etc/hosts then reboot. You'll now be ad free on the net. These machines are still quite capable on the web. Much better under Linux than OS X though.

Cheers

 

[feelingsupersonic]

Thanks for all the tips guys! I'll check out NoScript as well as Webkit.

As far as ad blocking, I've been using the last compatible version of uBlock Origin. I run a Pi-Hole DNS server on my network so that directly sinkholes most ads on my entire home network. Thanks for the MVPS reference, I'll add that to my blacklist in case there are entries not already banned.

I wish there was a PPC port of Pi-hole, it would make a great platform. Currently using Ubuntu 18.04 to run it directly through the hypervisor. I tried installing Ubuntu Mate on the G5 but ran into weird issues, need to try again at some point. To be honest I'm thrilled with OS X since nostalgia was my primary reason for buying this rig, I'm not trying to make it stand up to modern performance standards.

 

[Dronecatcher]

A better GPU will only be an advantage if you intend to play games or install Linux that can implement hardware acceleration on that GPU.
I did some testing when I went through the same dilemma:

Do I Need A Better Graphics Card....

That's the question I've asked myself again and again when I've suspected I could just get that little bit more performance out of my machine..... So, spying a NVIDIA Quadro FX4500 on ebay for a reasonable(ish) price, I decided to find out. My existing card was a NVIDIA Geforce 6600 which is...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[TheShortTimer]

It just seems that scrolling through modern webpages exposes the limits of the machine. I'm not frustrated with it because I know it comes with the territory.

Welcome.

It's not really the limits of the machine but rather the ever increasing bloat of the web and browsers. I've had problems that are ridiculous with much more recent Mac hardware.

 

[feelingsupersonic]

Thank you Dronecatcher, great read and objective results. To me, with everyone's input in mind, I don't see the value in a GPU upgrade unless it's a stupid good deal. I feel as though this machine already quite well optimized as far as hardware and software and the last few % are going to be way more money than they are worth.

I gave Leopard-Webkit a shot last night and it seems to work great. TFF marginally outgunned it on the HTML5 test (437 to 408 IIRC, out of 555) but it's snappy. I'll continue testing both.

 

[timidpimpin]

Nice setup. Those PMG5's are one of the best engineered and professional computers ever offered in the consumer world. You really can't truly appreciate one until you work on the innards and see all the thought that went into everything.

If you ever want to do any real gaming on it you should get a Geforce 6800 or 7800, but otherwise the one you have is fine.

 

[feelingsupersonic]

Those PMG5's are one of the best engineered and professional computers ever offered in the consumer world. You really can't truly appreciate one until you work on the innards and see all the thought that went into everything.

Agree! It oozes quality. Another tidbit I didn't know about: it supports ECC memory. This is worth knowing IMO because you can find server memory in 8/16gb quantities for CHEAP on your favorite auction site. It's generally not compatible with desktops due to ECC. However the G5 doesn't care, so adding RAM can be done for way less. I'm using 6x 1gb ECC sticks and it's no problem.

 

[Dronecatcher]

I gave Leopard-Webkit a shot last night and it seems to work great. TFF marginally outgunned it on the HTML5 test (437 to 408 IIRC, out of 555) but it's snappy. I'll continue testing both.

Make sure you enable all the extra scripts that come with LWK and install QuickTime 7.7 - it really boosts Youtube playback in LWK.
Try all the browsers available - alas, at this stage it's hard to settle on only one for all uses, even so we have a good choice: TFF, LWK, IceWeasel, ArcticFox, Roccat and for no fuss, instant Youtube you have Yewtube and AquaVid - though SMTube reigns supreme if you follow the install procedure.
TenFourFoxBox and Fluid also allow you to create site specific web apps too - very useful.

 

[Eightbitgamer757]

Agree! It oozes quality. Another tidbit I didn't know about: it supports ECC memory. This is worth knowing IMO because you can find server memory in 8/16gb quantities for CHEAP on your favorite auction site. It's generally not compatible with desktops due to ECC. However the G5 doesn't care, so adding RAM can be done for way less. I'm using 6x 1gb ECC sticks and it's no problem.

This i didnt know! that means you could put STUPID amounts of RAM into it that would be awesome to see considering the pmg5's have a ton of ram slots

 

[eyoungren]

This i didnt know! that means you could put STUPID amounts of RAM into it that would be awesome to see considering the pmg5's have a ton of ram slots

Stupid amounts?

There's a 4, 8 and 16GB limit on ram depending on G5 model. Just how stupid do you think you can get?

 

[timidpimpin]

Stupid amounts?

There's a 4, 8 and 16GB limit on ram depending on G5 model. Just how stupid do you think you can get?

"Stupid" is often used as a slang to mean huge or awesome. I'm pretty sure that's what they were trying to convey.

 

[eyoungren]

"Stupid" is often used as a slang to mean huge or awesome. I'm pretty sure that's what they were trying to convey.

I know.

I just don't think that 8GB or 16GB ram is a stupid amount. In my last job I had a 2010 Mac Pro with 32GB ram. Even then, I don't think that was a stupid amount - although it may get close.

I have a 2015 MBP now from work. It's got 16GB ram. Same as my Quad. My 2.3DC has 6GB ram and my Mac Mini has 8GB ram. The 2009 MBP I am typing this on has 4GB ram, same as the max on an early G5.

I get that 8 to 16 is a lot for the G5s, particularly as they were/are PowerPC. But, I'm just not certain that qualifies as a stupid amount.

I guess it's perspective.

 

[Dronecatcher]

"Stupid" is often used as a slang to mean huge or awesome. I'm pretty sure that's what they were trying to convey.

Maybe it's apt considering the hardware (and period software) - I never saw more than 9Gb being used on my G5 Quad - even when rendering 4 metre tall exhibition graphics.
Of course, 8Gb is considered entry level now on a desktop for web browsing.....

 

[timidpimpin]

Maybe it's apt considering the hardware (and period software) - I never saw more than 9Gb being used on my G5 Quad - even when rendering 4 metre tall exhibition graphics.
Of course, 8Gb is considered entry level now on a desktop for web browsing.....

Well, if you're a Chrome user you need about 1GB RAM per tab. HAHA

Seriously though... I would say 8GB is more than enough for 90% of people. I have 16GB in my Windows 10 gaming system, and only about 3 of the modern games I play use more than 8GB. I would say 12GB is more than enough for modern and demanding gaming. But that's an odd config. that most won't have.

 

[feelingsupersonic]

I don't see myself needing anywhere near even 6gb on my G5, it was just a good deal so I snapped it up. Can't see anything that I run even getting close to using that up.

Seems like a lot of you guys do IT or graphical design related stuff for a living?

 

[eyoungren]

Seems like a lot of you guys do IT or graphical design related stuff for a living?

I do. Generally, I'm my own IT department though.

Anyway, having extra ram is useful. On my Quad for instance, I have a 2GB Ram disk. I have both the T4Fx app and my profiles stored on the ram disk (they are saved to my HD and copied back over on each reboot). So, T4Fx, my addons, and my configuration, which includes using that 2GB ram disk for cache, are all resident in ram - ram of course being faster than a hard drive.

 

[1042686]

Hi Michael. Nice score. Got any pics?

I’ve got a a1177 & a1047 pci. I’ve maxed the ram on both machines (16 & 4 respectively), dropped a usb2.0 card in each & that’s about it. Now that SSDs are so darn cheap I’m going to start upgrading my spinners to raid SSDs in each g5 & my mp1,1. As far as OS, I’m very happy with Leopard although I do have lubuntu on a separate partition on the a1047. Im very happy with the radeon9600 that is in both but if I found a cheap upgrade I’d put it in just because 😀

Anyhow enjoy your powermacg5.

 

[feelingsupersonic]

Hi Michael. Nice score. Got any pics?

I’ve got a a1177 & a1047 pci. I’ve maxed the ram on both machines (16 & 4 respectively), dropped a usb2.0 card in each & that’s about it. Now that SSDs are so darn cheap I’m going to start upgrading my spinners to raid SSDs in each g5 & my mp1,1. As far as OS, I’m very happy with Leopard although I do have lubuntu on a separate partition on the a1047. Im very happy with the radeon9600 that is in both but if I found a cheap upgrade I’d put it in just because 😀

Anyhow enjoy your powermacg5.

I got my Samsung drive for around $20 shipped, 120gb SATA II. For the money I would definitely do it again, it's noticeable.

Pics you say -

Wish the rear side of my home office desk looked this tidy.

 

[bjar]

I do. Generally, I'm my own IT department though.

Anyway, having extra ram is useful. On my Quad for instance, I have a 2GB Ram disk. I have both the T4Fx app and my profiles stored on the ram disk (they are saved to my HD and copied back over on each reboot). So, T4Fx, my addons, and my configuration, which includes using that 2GB ram disk for cache, are all resident in ram - ram of course being faster than a hard drive.

What app do you use to save your RAM disk on reboot?