New Objections to Apple's Irish Data Center Focus on Proximity to Nuclear Power Plants

[MacRumors]

Apple continues to defend its proposed data center in Galway County, Ireland, during an oral hearing brought together from an appeal by independent planning body An Bord Pleanála. This time, those against the company's site in Derrydonnell Forest argued that it is planning to build in a location that's too close to a local nuclear power plant (via Business Insider).

Oscar Gonzalez, who works in data center site selection at Apple, defended the company's west coast of Ireland location, stating that it meets Apple's goal of being at least 320km from the nearest nuclear facility. According to a few witnesses present at the oral hearing, however, the Derrydonnell Forest location was so desired by Apple that the company manufactured the arbitrary 320km rule of thumb to eliminate areas of Ireland that are specially designated for data center construction.

"Brenda McGuane and Others" suggest that Apple adopted the 320km radius to eliminate more suitable plots of land in other parts of Ireland. They say: "the selection of sites greater than 320km from nuclear facilities is not a criteria adopted by Apple for its data centres in the US. The criteria has not been adopted by other international corporations."

The fact that the likes of Google and Microsoft have built data centres near Dublin shows that other large tech companies are willing to put their server farms less than 320km away from UK nuclear sites.

The nearest nuclear facility to the proposed site - called Wylfa Nuclear Power Station - is located in Wales and is approximately 280km away, but it's been closed down for a few years, so its use as a violation of Apple's own rules didn't hold much water during the oral hearings. The second farthest site that is currently operating, located in Sellafield in the United Kingdom, is about 370km from Derrydonnel Forest.

Gonzalez said that Apple first and foremost attempts to "minimize the risk" of site selection, referring to the 320km rule, but when it has to accept compromises it does so "reluctantly." Engineer Allan Daly pointed out that Apple's ruleset for picking and choosing data center locations remains largely nebulous on a plot-by-plot basis, suggesting the company "picks and chooses" when it decides to meet them. "The distances to nuclear facilities, military installation and fuel distribution centers are arbitrary, and can be increased or decreased," Daly wrote.

In response, Gonzalez stuck to Apple's reluctant compromise point, explaining that as time passes, potential data center sites are evaluated by different rules and perspective as Apple's "huge growth in demand" changes the need for such sites. Other protestors of the Derrydonnel Forest location have attempted to use its negative impact on the population of local bats and badgers, and poor water maintenance that could flood a local golf course, as their main points of contention against Apple.

Article Link: New Objections to Apple's Irish Data Center Focus on Proximity to Nuclear Power Plants

 

[robotica]

What are the real reasons Apple want to build a data centre in the middle of a forest?

They haven't adequately explained the reasons for that and why they don't want to use other locations ear marked for data centres.

 

[colmaclean]

More importantly, what's the distance to Craggy island?

 

[MH01]

As we know from TC there is the official stance and there is the stance that offers the most benefit. official stance is for TC to play politician and say all the right things.

In relation to this story, they can and will build it where the most benefit is for them.

When you use things like environment friendlyness to push sales and setup rules, geez it sucks when media actually does thier research and starts calling the bluff.

 

[Zirel]

Okay.

Apple, you can come to Portugal and build a data center here. We don't have nuclear power plants.

We don't ask for that much money as Irish people ask.

We have good qualified people here that have to immigrate to (countries like IE and UK) to find a job.

Too bad you have to pay taxes here... :/
[doublepost=1464783893][/doublepost]

What are the real reasons Apple want to build a data centre in the middle of a forest?

Probably because they have a source of cold water there, which they can use to cool the servers.

And because it's practically interference free from radio radiations, but I don't see big advantage there, as DDR4 memory will have ECC as standard.

 

[Mactendo]

What a stubbornness. Probably Tim picked this location himself.

 

[Aston441]

Wut? What does the distance to an electricity plant have to do with anything? Wouldn't they want to be close to get cheap power?

 

[b-dogg]

Wut? What does the distance to an electricity plant have to do with anything? Wouldn't they want to be close to get cheap power?

What's more important: the distance to the closed down power plant in Wales in The UK or the badger families set in this magical Forrest?

The person placing these objections sounds like an Eco-warrior / NIMBY. The same people in Ireland who don't want any industry in their area - yet moan about emigration. Also, probably this same guy who complains about a decommissioned nuclear power plant across the Irish Sea in a DIFFERENT COUNTRY would have issues with construction of wind turbines in Ireland for "visual pollution".


I'm sure he'll be on Irish radio lapping up all the free air time this week. Can't wait. Will give him a great platform next time he runs for the Green Party in local elections.

Hopefully common sense will prevail.

 

[Pbrutto]

Yeah it's really lame when a private company has the gall to "pick and choose" what land they pay tons of money for so they can build stuff that creates jobs and its own clean electricity

 

[barkomatic]

Yeah it's really lame when a private company has the gall to "pick and choose" what land they pay tons of money for so they can build stuff that creates jobs and its own clean electricity

If Apple wanted to pay tons of money for a spot in the middle of Yellowstone National Park they should be able to?

 

[acgmph]

Yeah it's really lame when a private company has the gall to "pick and choose" what land they pay tons of money for so they can build stuff that creates jobs and its own clean electricity

Yeah, how dare they oppose the awesomeness of Apple because of a bunch of trees? Those 50 full-time jobs they'll create with the datacenter will save the local economy for sure... Who needs trees?? People need more jobs! Good paying, hard working, COAL jobs! Sounds familiar?
Here: http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-new-data-center-north-carolina-created-50-jobs-2011-11?op=1
And here: https://www.electricireland.ie/business/help/efficiency/fuel-mix-disclosure

 

[apolloa]

The more I read of the story the more I hope their planning request is refused. Apple are obviously playing a very dangerous political and environmental game just because they want to benefit themselves first and foremost, it's a giant arrogant corporation, they couldn't care less about the people or animals or nuclear power stations in the area, anymore then they do their customers.
[doublepost=1464788618][/doublepost]

What's more important: the distance to the closed down power plant in Wales in The UK or the badger families set in this magical Forrest?

The person placing these objections sounds like an Eco-warrior / NIMBY. The same people in Ireland who don't want any industry in their area - yet moan about emigration. Also, probably this same guy who complains about a decommissioned nuclear power plant across the Irish Sea in a DIFFERENT COUNTRY would have issues with construction of wind turbines in Ireland for "visual pollution".


I'm sure he'll be on Irish radio lapping up all the free air time this week. Can't wait. Will give him a great platform next time he runs for the Green Party in local elections.

Hopefully common sense will prevail.

Nature and the environment is FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR more important then a flipping data centre!
Do you also support all the destruction of the Amazon rain forest? All the insects and plants that are yet to be discovered there that are now destroyed, insects and plants that could hold the keys to the cure of cancer or AIDS or other diseases? Because they do find cures for these things from that forest.

Their are PLENTY of other places Apple can use, it just doesn't want to for most likely stupid reasons or costs, just like how they won't include features in their products to increase profits to the max.

 

[neuropsychguy]

If Apple wanted to pay tons of money for a spot in the middle of Yellowstone National Park they should be able to?

While Apple shouldn't be allowed to build just anywhere, that's not at all like the site of the proposed data center and isn't what the commenter implied. There's a golf course down the road from the proposed site. This forest is an area of undeveloped land, not a national park or national forest. Look at the picture in this article: http://www.businessinsider.com/athenry-golf-club-appeals-apple-data-centre-2016-4?r=UK&IR=T

The objections to the location likely have some merit but this isn't Apple trying to invade a protected forest.

 

[mytdave]

What the hell does a nuclear power plant have to do with anything? Who the hell cares where they build it? Why do people get their panties in a bunch over all kinds of stupid ****? If it were my back yard and Apple said, "hey, I'd like to build a data center here," I'd say "hell yeah, when would you like to start?"

 

[Pbrutto]

Wow, the hate was quick....I was referring to apples right to attempt to purchase land wherever, and the owner of that lands right to refuse to sell it to them. I was also making fun of the audacity of the person quoted to imply that "picking and choosing" was somehow not okay as I am sure millions of decisions are made in the corporate world everyday that have to do with picking and choosing. Finally, before I worry about Apple and a data center that had solar panels and is in a forest let's compare? Apple (who's brand spanking new hq will feature 0 removed dirt, massive amounts of landscaping, green space, solar, renewable energy......or.....um......Monsanto, Walmart, Halliburton, Raytheon, Canadian oil sands, fracking, the great pacific (and now with Atlantic) garbage patch......seriously.....Apple purchased 2 forests 2 or 3 years ago that were way bigger than this and they will probably plant an equal number of trees to replace it. Fanboy or not: we really want to rag on Apple for giving a *hit compared to 95% of all other companies?


Edit: another of Ireland's concerns about the proposed location: "poor water maintenance that could flood a local golf course"

 

[smacrumon]

Designed in California.

 

[scuac]

To all asking what does the power plant have to do with this? A lot! Data centers are huge power hogs. Proximity to a power plant and ease of connection to it are crucial considerations when choosing the location. That is why Apple's requirement is ridiculous, they should want to be closer to a power plant. Waiting to find out their real reason to want to build there.

 

[autrefois]

More importantly, what's the distance to Craggy island?

And if Father Ted found out about it, would he be out protesting?

Hmm, according to Wikipedia Dermot Morgan passed on 28 February 1998. Tim Cook joined Apple in March 1998. Coincidence?

 

[Chupa Chupa]

If Apple wanted to pay tons of money for a spot in the middle of Yellowstone National Park they should be able to?

If it's for sale sure, but Apple has neither expressed a desire to buy land in Yellowstone nor the gov't to sell. So your question is loaded and irrelevant because that isn't what is going on here. Apple is buying land that isn't a national park, isn't protected, and is for sale and developable according to the laws of Ireland.

Honestly, there is already a nuke plant nearby. It seems like the area has already become industrialized. The plot Apple is looking at is next to a golf course and other fields. The patch of trees that will be torn down is hardly a forest. It's more like a thick cluster.

I'm no expert on Irish environmental regulations, but it is part of the EU, which does have strict environmental impact rules. Not sure what else there is other than to stop all human development for the rest of time.

 

[Gaspode67]

And if Father Ted found out about it, would he be out protesting?
View attachment 633865
Hmm, according to Wikipedia Dermot Morgan passed on 28 February 1998. Tim Cook joined Apple in March 1998. Coincidence?

Damn! You beat me to it!
[doublepost=1464791320][/doublepost]

More importantly, what's the distance to Craggy island?

Father Jack was approached for a statement. Unfortunately the rules prevent us from publishing it here....

 

[ConnYoungy]

The second farthest site that is currently operating, located in Sellafield in the United Kingdom, is about 370km from Derrydonnel Forest.

I think you mean "Sellafield in England", because Wales and Ireland are also in the UK

 

[thisisnotmyname]

Do you also support all the destruction of the Amazon rain forest? All the insects and plants that are yet to be discovered there that are now destroyed, insects and plants that could hold the keys to the cure of cancer or AIDS or other diseases? Because they do find cures for these things from that forest.

I saw Medicine Man too.

There are a few chemo-therapies that involve plants native to rain forests but this still seems like an overreach in support of conservation; there are plenty of good reasons to preserve natural environments without invoking a moonshot.

 

[b-dogg]

I think you mean "Sellafield in England", because Wales and Ireland are also in the UK

Northern Ireland is in the UK, Galway is in the west of Ireland. I live in Dundalk which is one of the closest areas to Sellafield (the active Nuclear plant) across the Irish Sea. The issue of a decommissioned Nuclear power plant in Wales (also across the Irish Sea in a different country) is a nonsense.

Apple is one of the few companies that take renewable energy seriously. I'd rather them than a pharmaceutical plant in there. Also, the golf course objection is pretty laughable. Did that effect the local wildlife when it was constructed?!

 

[Gaspode67]

I think you mean "Sellafield in England", because Wales and Ireland are also in the UK

Ahem! Ireland (as in the Republic of Ireland) is definitely NOT in the UK.

UK stands for United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Great Britain consists of England, Scotland, and Wales.
Republic of Ireland is a separate sovereign state (following the Anglo-Irish treaty of 1922).

 

[barkomatic]

If it's for sale sure, but Apple has neither expressed a desire to buy land in Yellowstone nor the gov't to sell. So your question is loaded and irrelevant because that isn't what is going on here. Apple is buying land that isn't a national park, isn't protected, and is for sale and developable according to the laws of Ireland.

Honestly, there is already a nuke plant nearby. It seems like the area has already become industrialized. The plot Apple is looking at is next to a golf course and other fields. The patch of trees that will be torn down is hardly a forest. It's more like a thick cluster.

I'm no expert on Irish environmental regulations, but it is part of the EU, which does have strict environmental impact rules. Not sure what else there is other than to stop all human development for the rest of time.

Regardless of whether the land resides in a national park or not, a company doesn't get to do whatever it wants because it can pay a lot of money--at least not *all* the time. Even if the plot of land is a run down parking lot, Apple has to follow the regulations and laws of the community it wishes to enter and if they have the power to reject the data center then Apple can go somewhere else.