New Studio owner, my impressions - Wow

[maflynn]

My tale is as old as time - looking to upgrade/replace my computer. I first started my analysis with looking at the M4 Mini for $450. Between MR's Mini forum, and reddit, the M4 has been reportedly good enough most people. My usages were such that I wanted more ram, storage then the stock M4. That pushed the price to $900, I'm already spending more money on ram/storage, so I might as well opt for the M4 Pro - Now we're talking $1,200.

I bought Mini at microcenter, and it was a great machine. One of my must haves, is the ability to play the games, the M4 Pro Mini struggled on some games and the temps were pushing 90c. For example, I got Fallout 76 to play but at a sub 1080p resolution, with detail turned all of the way the down - even then the lags where still present making the game feel jittery

With the return window still open at Microcenter, I opted for a M4 Max Studio for 1,800 - a 600 dollar up charge, but with significant upgrades over the mini, more ram, CPU and GPU cores, and the cooling is so much superior. The hottest I've seen this puppy get, is in the low 70c range. With Macs Fan Control, I can keep the temps in the 50s for intensive programs/games

I ran some benchmarks between my cadre of computers (most of them are not active) but I ran the benchmarks out of curiosity
My PC was my full time rig and as you can see, the GPU scores of the 7800XT are pretty good. The Mini's GPU scores were quite bit behind the 7800 XT, and that was crux of the issue, if I'm spending 1,200 dollars, why am I settling for a slower computer. Granted the CPU cores were significantly faster, but for my usages I want better GPU scores.

That's where the studio came in, for another 600, I truly get a faster and cooler machine. The end result, has blown my mind in terms of performance.

 

[Rian Gray]

I'm actually surprised to see the cinebench score for gpu. I was under the impression M3 Ultra is barely enough to match 6900xt, as that was the score I had seen on geekbench metal scores.

 

[maflynn]

Part II of my purchase - upgrade my storage - This post may be a long one, so buckle up

I had two choices, external or internal. Internal storage upgrades are unsupported, carries a risk to your warranty, and possible headaches in the future. For me, I felt the risk vs reward just wasn't there, but YMMV.

Now that I was going with external, which one? Acasis enclosure, with a Samsung 990 Pro, Sabrent Rocket Xtrm 5, or a OWC Envoy Ultra. Reviews of the Acasis had some complaints on cooling, and/or thermal pads not adequately working/making contact. Could be a fine device, but I opted to pass this on. The Sabrent Rocket Xtrm - I've owned other Sabrent products very happy, but there's zero reviews, on amazon, or the internet - there really wasn't a track record. Plus it being passively cooled and the device looked rather small, I wasn't sure how cool it would run. That leaves the OWC, which I picked up from amazon.

I'm, currently copying some large files (about 500gb of storage), I was a little concerned with temps on a passively cooled enclosure, but unlike the sabrent, its a larger enclosure with heat fins, and istat menus is reporting temps to be in the 30c range while the copy action is running. Oddly, the temps were encroaching 40c and quite warm to the touch, I flipped it upside down and placed it on top of the Studio - that metal casing of the studio is acting like a huge heat sink and temps have dropped down to 30c.

My initial decision was to move my home folder, in researching best methods to do so, I came across some possible issues, such as a 15.2 update breaking any homes that were not local. I believe later updates resolved this, but it shows the risk of having the home on a different drive. Also the methods I tried largely failed, I had to delete my account and create a new one - that worked. Some apps were not behaving nicely, such as iStat menus. After further contemplations, musings and ruminations I decided to not move my home directory but use the external drive as a data drive.

I had to wipe the mac and start over since the system was in a weird state, no regrets for that, I have to say one of the great things that apple does so well is reinstall, and setting up as a local account. Microsoft forces you to use their account and has actively closed work arounds. Changing Crossover to use the data drive was easy peasy lemon squeezie. I set up my OneDrive to use the Data drive instead of ~/OneDrive

Finally the performance - I'm copying my lightroom library from a usb-c drive to OWC drive - given that the backup is a spinning disk, and on usb-c - that's bottlenecking the overall peformance.

Black Magic:
Internal on the top and the OWC drive on the bottom

 

[rebelo]

I'm also really impressed with everything related to performance on my new Mac Studio, but the box is huge. Before buying I was in doubt between a Mac Mini or Mac Studio with similar specs (48 GB RAM + 2 TB SSD), but in the end I got the Mac Studio. I don't regret it (yet) but, man, the box is huge.

 

[maflynn]

but the box is huge

Bigger than the mini to be sure but that size has one huge upside - cooling. Prior to returning the m4 pro mini. I was dealing with temps encroaching 90c. I had to manually turn up the fans

Also the studio is significantly smaller then my pc case, do for me I get even more desk space

 

[pshufd]

I'm also really impressed with everything related to performance on my new Mac Studio, but the box is huge. Before buying I was in doubt between a Mac Mini or Mac Studio with similar specs (48 GB RAM + 2 TB SSD), but in the end I got the Mac Studio. I don't regret it (yet) but, man, the box is huge.

Big honking heat sink.

 

[pshufd]

My Studio was running warm last week and I just attributed it to summer but I shut it down and tipped it on the side and there was a thick layer of dust around the bottom ring. I just vacuumed it up and temps dropped about ten degrees. There's no more warm air coming out from the back either. The ambient temperature is still warm high and it will remain high for another two months.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

My Studio was running warm last week and I just attributed it to summer but I shut it down and tipped it on the side and there was a thick layer of dust around the bottom ring. I just vacuumed it up and temps dropped about ten degrees. There's no more warm air coming out from the back either. The ambient temperature is still warm high and it will remain high for another two months.

It is good that you figured that there was dust particles around the bottom ring. The M4 Studio and Mac M4 Mini air intake ports are quite close to the desk or shelf each sits on, and exactly where dust, lint, and pet hair settles. I have read several posts from other forum members saying that placing the Mini on its side helps with cooling.

 

[pshufd]

It is good that you figured that there was dust particles around the bottom ring. The M4 Studio and Mac M4 Mini air intake ports are quite close to the desk or shelf each sits on, and exactly where dust, lint, and pet hair settles. I have read several posts from other forum members saying that placing the Mini on its side helps with cooling.

I'm curious if the inside of the Studio needs cleaning as well. I had a look at a video for taking it apart and it's not that hard to get to the first layer but getting the second layer and the fan intake looks a lot more difficult.

We don't have pets and I run a HEPA filter in the office so it shouldn't be bad.

I just added a filter stand to my Amazon cart to prevent this issue in the future and hopefully Apple doesn't change the physical design soon. The amount of space between the table and the Studio is minimal and, while it looks nice, isn't ideal in terms of airflow and filtration. My full tower PC has dust mesh filters on the front, top and bottom with fantastic airflow. It's possible that one of the advantages of the Mac Pro is the ability to take it apart to clean the stuff inside.

 

[maflynn]

I'm curious if the inside of the Studio needs cleaning as well

I suspect it would. That's the reason why I picked up the Spigen Mac Studio Stand. Maybe its just a placebo sort of product, but I figured it couldn't hurt to. buy it and use it.

 

[pshufd]

I suspect it would. That's the reason why I picked up the Spigen Mac Studio Stand. Maybe its just a placebo sort of product, but I figured it couldn't hurt to. buy it and use it.


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I don't think that it's a placebo product from what I've read.

You get additional airflow and filtering. I was quite surprised at how little vertical there was between the bottom of the rectangular sid and the desk was.

I won't be able to judge well until the winter unless I take it apart. In the winter, it runs between 22 and 29 degrees.

I watched a video on how to take it apart and it isn't that difficult to get to the first layer but there are a bunch of connectors to remove to get to the second.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I'm curious if the inside of the Studio needs cleaning as well. I had a look at a video for taking it apart and it's not that hard to get to the first layer but getting the second layer and the fan intake looks a lot more difficult.

We don't have pets and I run a HEPA filter in the office so it shouldn't be bad.

I just added a filter stand to my Amazon cart to prevent this issue in the future and hopefully Apple doesn't change the physical design soon. The amount of space between the table and the Studio is minimal and, while it looks nice, isn't ideal in terms of airflow and filtration. My full tower PC has dust mesh filters on the front, top and bottom with fantastic airflow. It's possible that one of the advantages of the Mac Pro is the ability to take it apart to clean the stuff inside.

All depends on the amount of dust and other particles in the room or office your studio is at, and also the amount of time your Studio operates. A lot of people rarely turn their computers off, and some others turn theirs on only when needed (I am one of the latter). But since both the air in your room and Studio have filters it should take two or three years, maybe longer, for some dust to accumulate inside.

About PC's and the Mac Pro: Yes, most of the dust particles tend to fall on the floor where they sit on, desks, shelves, furniture (horizontal surfaces). Your PC, and any tower computer- including some gaming stations, incorporate powerful cooling fans that bring a lot of air and sometimes dust into the components inside. But there are numerous air filtering units one can use, and also tend to have lots of room inside the case which aids with heat dissipation.

 

[maflynn]

I watched a video on how to take it apart and it isn't that difficult to get to the first layer but there are a bunch of connectors to remove to get to the second.

If you're going to open it up, will you also upgrade the storage? (You'll need another Mac to do handle the DFU stuff).

 

[xraydoc]

I suspect it would. That's the reason why I picked up the Spigen Mac Studio Stand. Maybe its just a placebo sort of product, but I figured it couldn't hurt to. buy it and use it.


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I have a similar stand. Now I just need to remember to lift the Studio out of it periodically to check the filter status. Mine's been in there a few months and I've not checked it yet.

 

[pshufd]

If you're going to open it up, will you also upgrade the storage? (You'll need another Mac to do handle the DFU stuff).

No. I'd just buy an M4 Studio if I wanted more storage.

I've been looking at the M4 Mac with 48 GB of RAM and 1 TB SSD for $2,466 at MicroCenter.

I blew it out last night and that may have some effect. I then put it on top of an upside-down 2018 mini which should improve airflow. The last time I cleaned it was probably two years ago.

Right now it's a tossup between a 9900x and an M4 Studio. It might be worthwhile to wait until an M5 or M6 Studio as I'm sure Apple will do NVMe Gen 5 within the next two years.

 

[LeeW]

I got the M4 Max Studio on release, the base model, but more than I need. It's great at everything. Never seems to struggle with anything I throw at it, whether it's gaming, coding, or compiling. Storage just went under 150GB, but I was always going to get external storage when the time came which is probably soon. Not sure what to get.

 

[pshufd]

I got the M4 Max Studio on release, the base model, but more than I need. It's great at everything. Never seems to struggle with anything I throw at it, whether it's gaming, coding, or compiling. Storage just went under 150GB, but I was always going to get external storage when the time came which is probably soon. Not sure what to get.

An absolute ton of options. TB5 if you need the speed (and cost) or TB4/USB4 if you're good with 3,100 - 3,500 and the really cheap sets under 1K.

 

[LeeW]

I suspect it would. That's the reason why I picked up the Spigen Mac Studio Stand. Maybe its just a placebo sort of product, but I figured it couldn't hurt to. buy it and use it.


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How well does it work? Curious because I sit my Studio on top of my 4 disk Synology NAS, and when I see the **** that thing manages to suck in, I do wonder how bad the Studio will get.

 

[LeeW]

TB4/USB4 if you're good with 3,100 - 3,500 and the really cheap sets under 1K.

Probably this, I can push all the larger non-essential, least used files to it.

 

[maflynn]

How well does it work?

As far as I can tell - its working fairly well. I'm not really seeing any impact to my temps. I was wondering that the mesh with its lower porosity will increase temps, but its not restricting airflow to any noticeable degree

As for preventing dust, I won't really know that until I examine the mesh in a few months.

 

[Apple fanboy]

As far as I can tell - its working fairly well. I'm not really seeing any impact to my temps. I was wondering that the mesh with its lower porosity will increase temps, but its not restricting airflow to any noticeable degree

As for preventing dust, I won't really know that until I examine the mesh in a few months.

So my current Mac mini sits on an Ikea trivet. Always liked the idea of increased airflow and the metal working as a heatsink. That Spine thing looks good, but I'd prefer to see it in metal for the heat dispersion properties.

 

[Pressure]

Just mount it under the table. That also cleans up the table surface.

 

[maflynn]

So my current Mac mini sits on an Ikea trivet. Always liked the idea of increased airflow and the metal working as a heatsink. That Spine thing looks good, but I'd prefer to see it in metal for the heat dispersion properties. View attachment 2529324

I don't think that will be all that beneficial. The Spiegan stand does that, but also with a the mesh filter prevent dust from infiltrating the Mac. I like that idea, but at least in my situation the Spiegan does offers more protection

 

[JSRinUK]

I suspect it would. That's the reason why I picked up the Spigen Mac Studio Stand. Maybe its just a placebo sort of product, but I figured it couldn't hurt to. buy it and use it.


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I’m curious about getting one of these, but the £45 price tag makes me think that if it was really necessary, Apple would have included something like this in the Studio itself.

My Studio is currently in the corner of my room, on a wooden set of drawers. I no longer have a dog (and she never came in this room anyway). I suppose it could get some dust over the years, but I’m wondering if it’s really a big deal. I’ve used computers for over 40 years now and have never once thought to “protect the intake”.

It’s a dilemma. On the one hand it’s “well, it can’t hurt (maybe)” and, on the other, “it’s £45 for a bit of plastic and a filter”.

How is the temperature when using this? On my MacBook Pro, when doing LLM work, I can expect the temps to hit over 100 with the fans ramping up. I’m playing about with LLM training right now, and my Studio’s GPU is at 95 (fans just under 2000RPM). I really don’t want to inhibit the air intake and push up the temps even by a couple of degrees.

 

[pshufd]

I’m curious about getting one of these, but the £45 price tag makes me think that if it was really necessary, Apple would have included something like this in the Studio itself.

My Studio is currently in the corner of my room, on a wooden set of drawers. I no longer have a dog (and she never came in this room anyway). I suppose it could get some dust over the years, but I’m wondering if it’s really a big deal. I’ve used computers for over 40 years now and have never once thought to “protect the intake”.

It’s a dilemma. On the one hand it’s “well, it can’t hurt (maybe)” and, on the other, “it’s £45 for a bit of plastic and a filter”.

How is the temperature when using this? On my MacBook Pro, when doing LLM work, I can expect the temps to hit over 100 with the fans ramping up. I’m playing about with LLM training right now, and my Studio’s GPU is at 95 (fans just under 2000RPM). I really don’t want to inhibit the air intake and push up the temps even by a couple of degrees.

My first thought when I saw the price tag.

There are videos on YouTube about a cheaper solution: pantyhose. Apparently it makes a usable filter but the optics are awful.

I was thinking of trying to build a box from HEPA furnace filter material onto a box frame. It would provide more airflow and better filtration. But it might be too large.

I had the thick layer of dust but I think that I last cleaned it about two years ago. So the room is not that dirty. Increasing airflow helps with thermals. But I think that filtration and cleaning are important too. There are more choices for these kinds of things for the M4 mini.

The thing that I don't like about the vast majority is that they just provide more filtration along the holes of the Macs; so it's better filtration but not necessarily better airflow as the filter decreases airflow. There is a filter by IFCASE for $20 that is interesting because the filter area is a lot larger than the ring so it can pull in more air. I would prefer that it was a little taller but it is definitely taller than stock. The IFCASE solutions has replaceable filters so you can either vacuum them to clean them or replace them.

I have a 170 CFM variable speed AC-powered fan which I used to use with my 2015 MacBook Pro 15 to keep cool and I think that I'm going to put the Studio on top of it and run it. It should provide better airflow from positive pressure and I'm curious if it lowers thermals.