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New to After Effects CS5...my God this is slow..

nateo200

nateo200

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Feb 4, 2009
2,918
51
Upstate NY
I'm new to After Effects CS5...my God this is slow....I went to render out (which was hard enough to find) and it was giving me a 7hour export time for a 30 second 2K (2048x1556) export (from 4K)....wtf...I tried ProRes, MPEG-2, H.264, etc. and I got the same result...when I cancel it the file is like 900ms long....how can it be THAT slow? I mean my machine isn't beefy but Final Cut Pro X exports 4K in ProRes 4444 faster than that! I cut a 30 second 4K uncompressed video in Final Cut Pro X then imported the ProRes file in After Effects to color grade...I'm very pleased with its features (even though I never like the Adobe layout) but this rendering out business might be a deal breaker..I gave it 6gigs of RAM to chew on so I'm not sure whats going on....advice?
 
What effects did you use? What were your comp settings? Render settings?


You shouldn't look at After Effects like another NLE. They are completely different tools.
 
Rendering is mostly CPU dependent, and I'm not surprised by these figures with your setup. With high detail settings this is within normal range for a Core 2 Duo.
 
Yeah, if you want to get serious with After Effects, you'll want to get the best machine you can afford. Long render times are a fact of life now. I find that rendering things that contain live action video take considerably longer than entirely CG motion graphics, even things with 400+ layers and 2000 or so keyframes.

If you're just doing it for fun, I would call it a dealbreaker. There are much faster ways to color grade than round tripping to AE.

And yes, I agree with handsome Pete. After Effects is NOT intended to cut video. It's for compositing and animation. That's why Adobe makes both Premiere and AE.
 
Wo wo wo guys you are jumping me here! Im not a COMPLETE idiot lol. I know its not a NLE. I use Final Cut Pro X to do ALL my editing...I just can't figure out how to get certain things like curves for color correcting which is so much easier (I use it in DPP with RAW image files from my camera) as well as Magic Bullet Looks....I just don't get how render times can be THAT slow when I know Ive done ALLOT of compositing in FCP X at 4K and it works faster. As for what I was doing...basic color correction and then I added ONE look from magic bullet so I could enhance some anamorphic flare I was testing and it just sat there....

Mainly plan to use AE for basic stuff that FCP X can't do...if I can somehow get Magic Bullet Looks to work with FCP X and get my curves and similar plugins as Adobe (because face it Adobe has way more and FCP X is meh in quite a few areas). Ill happily drop AE for simple color grading if I can get better functionality out of FCP X...Im not into massive 3D stuff or anything like that...I might work on some explosion effects later on with my film project but right now Im just looking to be able to effectively color correct and grade my footage with ease and with more third party support, I really like some of the Adobe plugins and I feel like FCP X is lagging behind, I know its knew and FCP 7 caught up but still.

As for a new machine...If I could get an 8 core mac pro I would have my boss more happy AND more time to do personal projects! haha...unfortunetly Im a broke student with a camera and computer....oh well....I might try and cop a high end iMac off relatives this christmas but I think money spent else where would be better (i.e.: camera lenses, some better lighting equipment, actual lavaliere mics, a few more H1 zooms/shotgun mics, etc.)
 
Ill be honest, I didn't read everyone's comment...too early in the mid-west :p
Anytime you have to render to an codec, expect the unexpected.
Anytime you render with vector resources and have raster on...
Anytime you apply a motion blur to every freakin layer....
Anytime you decide to abuse layers with any blur....
Anytime you think its cool to load up the comps with 5k and up resolution photos...
When I wake up, I will finally read all posts and try to help :)
 
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I liked the previous version of FCP, it had color which was incredibly powerful. Maybe you can find an old version lying around? Color did take a while tho...
 
This is why I LOL at the people who come in and say there is no need for mac pro, just buy a retina MPB, etc.

AE will destroy your machine and spit it out. Massive ram and massive processors are your only hope.
 
nateo200 said:
Wo wo wo guys you are jumping me here! Im not a COMPLETE idiot lol. I know its not a NLE. I use Final Cut Pro X to do ALL my editing...I just can't figure out how to get certain things like curves for color correcting which is so much easier (I use it in DPP with RAW image files from my camera) as well as Magic Bullet Looks....I just don't get how render times can be THAT slow when I know Ive done ALLOT of compositing in FCP X at 4K and it works faster. As for what I was doing...basic color correction and then I added ONE look from magic bullet so I could enhance some anamorphic flare I was testing and it just sat there....
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The 13" means an i5 CPU and Intel GFX right? W/o a compatible CUDA video card all the processing is happening on the CPU in AE (where as FCP X will leverage the GPU) and Magic Bullet looks, ugh, that's a render beast in any host application.
 
pprior said:
This is why I LOL at the people who come in and say there is no need for mac pro, just buy a retina MPB, etc.

AE will destroy your machine and spit it out. Massive ram and massive processors are your only hope.
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Yeah a friend of mine went to get a new Mac...he wanted the 13" because it was "compact" but was the type who did heavy visual effects in video. I told him to buy the fastest machine his wallet could bench press! haha. I may possibly NEVER have a computer that will meet my demands...every computer Ive used just does not cut it. So I am a strong advocate of buying the most powerful beast possible but like I said I'm a broke student and not James Cameron or something (not that I would want to be James Cameron lol...)

(interesting read: See the render times for Avatar CGI scenes!!! I don't know how they made that film in time)


RocketMan76 said:
Not sure those two concepts go together ;)
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Well I figured I would get **** for saying I use Final Cut Pro X but then again this isn't the thread for an Adobe vs Avid vs Apple pissing match or butthurt FCP 7 users who don't like a overhaul to a top of the line NLE program. I grabbed FCP X because it was when I started seriously editing, it was Apple so I knew it would work with my machine, and I wouldn't have to worry about paying $5k for Adobe plus $1k for every damn update...

LethalWolfe said:
The 13" means an i5 CPU and Intel GFX right? W/o a compatible CUDA video card all the processing is happening on the CPU in AE (where as FCP X will leverage the GPU) and Magic Bullet looks, ugh, that's a render beast in any host application.
Click to expand...

LOL I WISH I had an i5 I've got...just wait for it..might want to put your coffee down (or tea as its 8PM here) the Core2Duo!!!! I don't even have the dream of being able to buy a CUDA video card and throw it on a Thunderbolt connection :/ I got the machine as a gift and have thrown in as much RAM as possible, dual hard drives, I use FireWire when I can, etc. Man I wish I could just plug this thing into a Mac Pro and let it use its 12cores with hyper threading to render out! If I could go to 16GB+ RAM I would but my system I don't believe supports it (I looked this up). Next upgrade is probably an Intel SSD, the fastest one I can get. My last PC I built collapsed under my demands and my old laptop is a 2001 IBM Thinkpad with a Pentium 3...I'm not rich guys.
 
if you work with Adobe Premiere Pro CS6 you can send it to speedgrade. It's specifically made to color grade. However, my macbook (2010 13" 2,4 Ghz 8GB Macbook Pro) isn't fast enough to smoothly color grade. And I believe it converts all your material to a certain codec (one clip took ages on my macbook).

Mmh..., perhaps this is not really helpful...
 
Speedgrade is a pig on a killer Mac Pro.
Grading should be done before editing IMHO.
You could have graded it in FCPX or the free version of Resolve.
But the lite version only outputs HD.
Its hard to pinpoint your problem with AE and your system without specs in the files you are using.
I work with AE 24/7 so I find ways to making it faster without the cost of creativity.
 
RocketMan76 said:
You're in the wrong industry.
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I'm not even "in the industry" yet....I am a student, pretty close out of high school, I have a regular ol' DSLR, and other basic tools. I get money for Christmas and my Birthday just like most kids, just started working again because I couldn't from a spine injury. I don't think any famous directors, editors, DP's, etc. were handed 12core Mac Pro's, with a RED one to start off...their is always a starting point. I don't think having an entry level laptop makes me a crappy writer or any less intelligent as I have dealt with more than a fair share of complete idiots on machines worth more than they needed or were worth for the matter. I don't seam to understand what your problem is but I wish you the best.

arjen92 said:
if you work with Adobe Premiere Pro CS6 you can send it to speedgrade. It's specifically made to color grade. However, my macbook (2010 13" 2,4 Ghz 8GB Macbook Pro) isn't fast enough to smoothly color grade. And I believe it converts all your material to a certain codec (one clip took ages on my macbook).

Mmh..., perhaps this is not really helpful...
Click to expand...

You have an SSD in your computer I see in the specs...how is the performance? We have the same computer but mine doesn't have an SSD, I have the stock 250GB in plus an optibay with another 250GB in...I was thinking of an SSD but I want to purchase one that I know will help with my tasks at hand...

mBox said:
Speedgrade is a pig on a killer Mac Pro.
Grading should be done before editing IMHO.
You could have graded it in FCPX or the free version of Resolve.
But the lite version only outputs HD.
Its hard to pinpoint your problem with AE and your system without specs in the files you are using.
I work with AE 24/7 so I find ways to making it faster without the cost of creativity.
Click to expand...

Color Correcting should be done prior to editing** but Color Grading can be done at a few levels (correcting corrects while grading is stylistic) not trying to be a know it all but i've talked with and read a few things by some colorists. And I know how to grade and correct in FCP X....I'm just open to trying different pieces of software....everyone seams to hate on FCP X so I figured I would try After Effects out for grading and effects...everyone talks about it being amazing. Also I like using the curves when color correcting...I dislike the FCP X way...I mean It can use it but the curves make more sense to me visually which is all that matters.

When you say the free version of Resolve outputs only HD do you mean 1920x1080 or 1280x720? I'm fine with 1080p output as the vast majority of stuff I work on is HD only...

**EDIT: My bad didn't mean prior to editing but somewhere before the end...really not sure what I was thinking there! haha
 
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nateo200 said:
Color Correcting should be done prior to editing but Color Grading can be done at a few levels (correcting corrects while grading is stylistic)...
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It really depends on the workflow and project. I'd say the vast majority of productions don't do any sort of coloring until the edit is locked because you don't know what footage you are going to use.
 
LethalWolfe said:
It really depends on the workflow and project. I'd say the vast majority of productions don't do any sort of coloring until the edit is locked because you don't know what footage you are going to use.
Click to expand...

As you've said I've never met anyone who grades before the edit has been completed. Seems to be a bit of a waste of time if some of the footage isn't even used in the end!

To the OP I'm slightly confused as you said you bought FCP X because then you wouldn't have to pay $5k to Adobe, does this mean you are using a trial?

My suggestion would be to attempt some editing in Premiere. It has better colour correction/grading tools than FCP X and won't drag your computer to a standstill for hours and hours.
 
nateo200 said:
I'm not even "in the industry" yet....I am a student, pretty close out of high school, I have a regular ol' DSLR, and other basic tools. I get money for Christmas and my Birthday just like most kids, just started working again because I couldn't from a spine injury. I don't think any famous directors, editors, DP's, etc. were handed 12core Mac Pro's, with a RED one to start off...their is always a starting point. I don't think having an entry level laptop makes me a crappy writer or any less intelligent as I have dealt with more than a fair share of complete idiots on machines worth more than they needed or were worth for the matter. I don't seam to understand what your problem is but I wish you the best.
Click to expand...


Guess I forgot the sarcasm tag. No need to get so defensive. If you want a chance in this business, you're gonna need to learn not to lash out and chill out.
 
RocketMan76 said:
Guess I forgot the sarcasm tag. No need to get so defensive. If you want a chance in this business, you're gonna need to learn not to lash out and chill out.
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I'm actually really chill...as for lashing out, take it as you want, didn't think of it that way. As for how I handle, I handle myself well, I live in an area thats pretty wealthy (although I'm not personally) and can hold a conversation with just about anyone. I just didn't like your anti-constructive posts. Well aware a Mac Pro would be nice, VERY WELL AWARE that owning a RED Epic would be nice, and constantly aware that money talks. So condescending statements while probably the norm from directors towards low level interns in "the industry" is fine by me..., I am on a forum asking a question, looking for constructive advise and you provided zilch. I fail how to see "Your in the wrong industry then" is constructive....its akin to telling your 1 year old he or she can't walk. I'm not the only one who noticed this. I'm not sure if your a high profile type person who sits on an ego and doesn't open up to others or just trolling.

LethalWolfe said:
It really depends on the workflow and project. I'd say the vast majority of productions don't do any sort of coloring until the edit is locked because you don't know what footage you are going to use.
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Apply's to post below...

acearchie said:
As you've said I've never met anyone who grades before the edit has been completed. Seems to be a bit of a waste of time if some of the footage isn't even used in the end!

To the OP I'm slightly confused as you said you bought FCP X because then you wouldn't have to pay $5k to Adobe, does this mean you are using a trial?

My suggestion would be to attempt some editing in Premiere. It has better colour correction/grading tools than FCP X and won't drag your computer to a standstill for hours and hours.
Click to expand...
I import the footage, do a rough cut of it, correct it, do more editing then grade it. My workflow works like this: H.264 transcoded to ProRes 422 (HQ) > Import into FCP X > put into timeline and cut up > cut more footage to what will be close to a finished product without effects, titles, etc. > color correct > add effects, titles, etc. > work on audio a bit (don't have a dedicated DAW that does surround well yet) > color grade > Prep for final touches > export....Something like that....I don't know why I would grade footage I wouldn't use either...?...I guess my work flow is different but I don't touch color tell I have all the stuff give or take a few, I think I threw you guys off by saying "in the beginning".

After Effects is a 30 day trial....Ill then decide if I want to purchase from there.. as for FCP X, I got that for Christmas....glad I turned out to like it.
 
nateo200 said:
I'm actually really chill...as for lashing out, take it as you want, didn't think of it that way. As for how I handle, I handle myself well, I live in an area thats pretty wealthy (although I'm not personally) and can hold a conversation with just about anyone. I just didn't like your anti-constructive posts. Well aware a Mac Pro would be nice, VERY WELL AWARE that owning a RED Epic would be nice, and constantly aware that money talks. So condescending statements while probably the norm from directors towards low level interns in "the industry" is fine by me..., I am on a forum asking a question, looking for constructive advise and you provided zilch. I fail how to see "Your in the wrong industry then" is constructive....its akin to telling your 1 year old he or she can't walk. I'm not the only one who noticed this. I'm not sure if your a high profile type person who sits on an ego and doesn't open up to others or just trolling.
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Yeah, you'll turn out just fine. I'd love to hear you talk to an EP with that attitude. And it's "you're". And I am.
 
RocketMan76 said:
Yeah, you'll turn out just fine. I'd love to hear you talk to an EP with that attitude. And it's "you're". And I am.
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I'm not sure you are in a position to give advice about proper social interaction. We have 1 person seeking advice, about a half dozen people trying to help and 1 person trolling.

Do I need to point out who's doing what?;)
 
Why the heck is everyone giving this kid grief. He is struggling with what he has and asking for advice. Cut him some slack he sounds like he's working and learning.
 
nateo200 said:
After Effects is a 30 day trial....Ill then decide if I want to purchase from there.. as for FCP X, I got that for Christmas....glad I turned out to like it.
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Did you think about maybe trying premiere?

I realise that it may seem totally against the gift of FCP X you were given but it can never hurt to learn more NLE you will also find that you can have more creative control over your images without the ridiculous render times.

If you have Magic Bullet do you have it for FCP X? That could be the other option. Whilst it's clunky it could be a better idea than round tripping.

Also have you thought about using Motion. I think there are some templates for plugins for FCP X that use some of Motions features for colour grading.
 
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