Newbie questions

[macman4789]

Hi,

I’ve taken an interest in video editing from a hobby perspective and have been watching/reading about certain aspects and people use lots of terms and phrases quite often which have lead to more questions and so I wondered if anyone on here could clarify a few things. Apologies if they are simple but I’ve kind of just got a lot of gaps in my knowledge at the moment and I’m just trying to fill the gaps!

1. Media engines - are media engines just a standard piece of hardware? I.e. will they accelerate the decode/encoding of any format or are they only compatible with set codecs? I.e. h.264, HEVC, ProRes? I’m thinking, for example when/if AV1 becomes more popular will the current media engines help/work with this format or will they need to be updated?

2. ProRes - I’ve seen videos where base M chips can quite comfortably handle even 8K ProRes footage. Yet I’ve seen some Pro/Max chips massively struggle with 4K or 8K footage. Would this be because the footage is a harder codec to decode e.g. Canon? And so the chip/gpu is not optimised to play it?

3. If that is the case, is that why you can ‘render’ the timeline I.e. decode it or in my brain ‘knit it together’ so that the computer can play it easily whilst you are editing it? But if the footage is ProRes it doesn’t tend to need it because of the built in hardware of the Mac to read it ‘on the fly’?

4. If this is the case, in theory you don’t need ‘the best of the best’ if you are prepared to render out your timeline each time to improve your editing experience each time you import footage?

5. RAW footage - what’s the deal with this footage? What is the difference between this and say Sony’s SLOG? Why is it so difficult on the computer? Can any RAW from any brand be converted to say HEVC or even ProRes so that it is easier for the computer to edit on? Is this called transcoding?

6. If you do convert from RAW to another format, I’m guessing you’re never going to want to convert it back to RAW as it’s the same process as RAW photography?

Apologies in advance if these are silly questions, I’m just trying to understand!

Thanks

 

[R S K]

1. https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/Media_Engine Only the M3 and higher support AV1 decode.

2. ProRes is an extremely high-quality "I-frame only" codec, which makes it both very easy to encode/decode as well as make the file sizes very large. And yes, if you've seen an Apple Silicon Mac struggle with 4 or 8K, then it most certainly was not ProRes. Proprietary codecs such as Canon RAW will definitely struggle on almost any Mac.

3. Correct.

4. No. The render speeds will not be that significant between, e.g., the current lowest M4 and the highest and only of interest and relevance for high-end users. And unless you are editing, highly unoptimized proprietary codecs or multiple streams of unusually high-resolution footage, meaning beyond 8K, there will be no reason to have to render over 95% of the time.

5. RAW is the format, and SLOG is the dynamic range with which it is recorded. Completely unrelated. And neither is something a hobbyist of all people should have to worry about or should even be using. Again, how easy or difficult it is to edit depends on which RAW we are talking about. ProRes RAW, for example, edits exactly as regular ProRes does. And yes, it's called transcoding, which, of course, defeats the whole purpose of using a RAW format to begin with. As I said, it's not something you should be concerned with in a practical sense. No hobbyist needs RAW. Even the vast majority of self-proclaiming "pros" don't.

6. You cannot transcode to a RAW format. And even if you could/can, that makes no practical or technical sense. That's like wanting to uncook meat or take the chocolate out of milk.

 

[macman4789]

Thank you so very much for your detailed replies. I don’t pretend to be a ‘pro’ or anything close, just someone who is a bit of a nerd who is trying to understand something a bit better from a hobby perspective.

So based on your answers:

1. For an Apple silicon machine, ProRes video is the most ideal and easiest codec to work with (disregarding disk space of course) and then encoded to a smaller format?

2. If you are willing to render timelines and not edit ‘on the fly’, then a base SOC of any of the M chips would probably be suitable for the majority of cases? Even with multiple streams? (Understanding that there may be other bottlenecks e.g. RAM).

3. Like photography, does RAW footage have more latitude for colour grading/dynamic range etc?

4. Would adding effects from day motion vfx just be the same? I.e. render them in the timeline?

Thank you very much for your help

 

[R S K]

1. ProRes, from an encode/decode perspective, is the best for any Mac. Especially Intel, for that matter. While so-called "interaframe" codecs such as H.264 or HEVC are exponentially more difficult to encode and decode, they are still no match for Apple Silicon. We're basically talking about the difference between maybe being able to do "only" 8 streams of video at one time as opposed to 18. For not being able to preview 12 effect filters on a clip in real-time as opposed to 24.

2. I have edited 12K footage on a first-generation M1 MacBook Air and 16GB of RAM. So if anyone asks if an Apple Silicon Mac is enough for XYZ, I automatically say "Yes!" before even hearing which generation they are even talking about. Even the "worst" Apple Silicon Mac is more than 90+% of any user will ever need or even be able to saturate in terms of performance, no matter how demanding or super-pro they want to think they are. In the end we're always talking about seconds and not minutes or hours of difference.

3. Sure. But what value does that exactly have if you don't even have something to display it on?? Or do you have a wide gamut display that will do a minimum of 1000 or more nits? Let me guess… 🤔 But then it also does not have more dynamic range than a video shot in HDR with a LOG profile, for example. It merely offers a few more options in terms of color temperature, exposure, etc..

4. Effects, etc. are completely color space agnostic in Final Cut Pro.

 

[macman4789]

1. ProRes, from an encode/decode perspective, is the best for any Mac. Especially Intel, for that matter. While so-called "interaframe" codecs such as H.264 or HEVC are exponentially more difficult to encode and decode, they are still no match for Apple Silicon. We're basically talking about the difference between maybe being able to do "only" 8 streams of video at one time as opposed to 18. For not being able to preview 12 effect filters on a clip in real-time as opposed to 24.

2. I have edited 12K footage on a first-generation M1 MacBook Air and 16GB of RAM. So if anyone asks if an Apple Silicon Mac is enough for XYZ, I automatically say "Yes!" before even hearing which generation they are even talking about. Even the "worst" Apple Silicon Mac is more than 90+% of any user will ever need or even be able to saturate in terms of performance, no matter how demanding or super-pro they want to think they are. In the end we're always talking about seconds and not minutes or hours of difference.

3. Sure. But what value does that exactly have if you don't even have something to display it on?? Or do you have a wide gamut display that will do a minimum of 1000 or more nits? Let me guess… 🤔 But then it also does not have more dynamic range than a video shot in HDR with a LOG profile, for example. It merely offers a few more options in terms of color temperature, exposure, etc..

4. Effects, etc. are completely color space agnostic in Final Cut Pro.

Thank you again for all that detailed information. For the previous last question, I’ve seen that noise reduction and film grain can really tax your system and I would presume need rendering in the timeline to work with. But I meant are added effects in general something that you would have to potentially render out on the timeline when used from something like motion vfx? Say a range of transitions? I know it would potentially depend on the system you are using, but is it commonplace to need to do this with Apple silicon based Macs?

Thank you!

 

[R S K]

Again… when, what, and whether something needs to be rendered depends on many factors. The more complex the project and/or codec, which denoiser, film grain etc. you're using, the more likely you are going to get dropped frames, and therefore need to render. But then that is also what the "Better Quality/Better Performance" settings are for. There is no one right answer.

For example, ever since Final Cut's own denoiser, which is real time on playback, I have not touched any other 3rd party denoiser. All of which are excessively render intensive. There are crap and very poorly optimized versions of everything. The ones with endless and unnecessarily convoluted settings and options (to give you that false sense of "pro") are generally the ones that are disproportionately slow as well.

And again... on any Apple Silicon Mac, the cut-off between real time and having to render is extremely high.

Oh, and maybe don't quote an entire post, if at all, especially if it's long and the one directly above yours. Completely redundant and makes reading that much more difficult.

 

[macman4789]

I appreciate your response, thank you again for your knowledge.