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nikon coolscan 5000 ED - end of line?

K

Keebler

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Jun 20, 2005
2,964
249
Canada
Hi Folks,

I'm seriously considering buying this scanner and the slide feeder to scan slides for clients (plus for a few family members).

Currently, I outsource the scanning and then I do the rest of the touch-ups myself before creating DVDs for my clients.

BUT, with a number of large quantity orders, I'm thinking I should buy one of these boxes and just give 'er. In terms of experience, I do have experience scanning and I believe any learning curve will be easy enough.

So, the question I have is: is the coolscan 5000 ED near an update? I know it's been out a few years (from what I can see, unless I saw an older product version). Is there anyway I can find out if a new version will come out soon? Just thinking that if it is 3 years old, then maybe I should wait to see what a new version will hold. Of course, I do have a few large orders coming in so maybe waiting isn't the best idea.

ideas?

Thanks and if you celebrate it, Happy Easter!

Cheers,
Keebler
 
If it will do the job for you now, go ahead and get it. The scanner has more than enough resolution, and good dynamic range, including multi-pass scanning option. I'm not sure what a newer scanner will offer that would be worth waiting for, or if there even is something in the works, considering the drop in film use overall.
 
you could get one, but i think they are a crap scanner. Also, anything more than 4000ppi off a scanner for 35mm film is pushing its ability to resolve real detail, so apart from size it is unlikely to make a big difference. The Hasselblad X1 scans at 6300ppi, but that is a big expense. So if you are needing one now, not so sure waiting will make a difference.

Also - the Nikon is VERY VERY slow, slow to preview, slow to scan, very slow to process the ICE, ROC and GEM etc. If you are only working for DVD, i would consider something else....
 
I'm very happy with my Nikon Coolscan V ED. Yes, it can be time-consuming to scan pix (especially if you want to get rid of the dust and scratches on the original transparencies), but it's not a bad job for those long winter's evenings. And, anyway, I scan pix when I need to use them, rather than hundreds at a time. I like the results... and the simplicity of the process.

Buy now. Why not? It's not like the company's cameras, which are upgraded every few months. The Coolscan will be a reliable workhorse for years to come (and you should get a decent price on eBay, when you've finished scanning)...
 
thanks folks.

I will be buying now as I do need to scan. Just doing the due diligence in trying to find out. I have no idea what a new scanner would offer, but i'd hate to buy one and see a new one released shortly thereafter.

Zeiss, thanks for the feedback. It's the 1st time I've seen anything really negative about this product. I'll look into it more. I'm not too worried about the scan duration as I have 5 systems in my office so I'll set it up and let it run while I work on the others. If I wasn't set up this way, I could see it being a problem so thanks.

Cheerios,
Keebler
 
Yes the Nikon can take a while to scan an image if it's at max resolution and you've added all the post-processing tweaks which have to be computed after the physical scan. That's somewhat dependent on how much memory and what kind of processor speed you have on your computer. Even pre-scans with all the "tweaks" can take a bit of time if you want to see what different changes will do to the scan.

Besides the usual controls in the scanning software tool chest (layout, info, crop, curves, color balance, unsharp mask and LCH editor (for brightness/contrast over certain tonal ranges and hue, chroma) there is the Digital ICE4 which includes:
Digital ICE: mitigates effects of dust and scratches
Digital ROC: restore faded colors
Digital GEM: reduce effects of film grain
Digital DEE: increase detail in under or overexposed areas of the frame

From the owner's manual: (scanning time for preview and full scan)
(I don't know how to make nice columns here, but hopefully you can read this as columns, with preview and scan times the last two columns.)


Image-Enhancer ICE ROC GEM DEE Preview Scan
Off Off Off Off Off 11s 20s
On Off Off Off Off 11s 20s
Off On Off Off Off 12s 46s
Off Off On Off Off 34s 35s
Off Off Off On Off 34s 1min52s
Off Off Off Off On 11s 1min 9s
On On On On On 41s 2min42s
​

​
The manual states these times using 16 bits bit depth (CMS on), 4000 dpi resolution using the MA-21 and positive film on a Pentium 4 3.06GHz, FSB 533MHz computer with 1GB RAM, Windows XP Pro, and USB High Speed. (Your times may vary... my comment)

There is other third-party scanning software available (I'm not the one to ask about what is best or fastest) for the Nikon scanners which some folks swear by.

Bottom line: Custom scans which are different for each image give the best results out of the "can" but take longer to achieve. But, you get a remarkable amount of control over shadow/highlight settings, noise reduction, sharpness, color and

I think you can set up 16 bit A/D batch scans with default settings (14 bit for the Coolscan V,) or any saved settings you create and save them as .tiff or NEF (Nikon's RAW file type) which will then give you the best changes to post-process individually later in PS or similar software. I haven't ever done batch scans since I have the Coolscan V, which doesn't accomodate the optional slide feeder) and can't say I'd recommend this method, but it might work for you. The file sizes can be huge, BTW (over 60meg.)

If you don't mind scanning at 8 bit A/D, you can save directly as jpeg, in various quality settings.

I've gotta disagree with Zeiss: The Nikon is not a "crap scanner." Once you master it, it will produce superior images to most digital cameras with decently exposed negatives/slides. No, it's not a industrial drum scanner, but it's a good scanner that will last a long time from a solid brand that will be around.
 
The 5000 is almost an "industry standard" I doubt it is going away soon. Buy a used one. They sell at about 1/2 the new price.

But scanning is so labor intensive. If you do the work yorself you will be making less than minimum wage. I send mine out to the service that uses a Coolscan 5000ED and charges me about 25 cents per frame. Given the time it takes me to scan a slide I think it is cheaper to outsource the work. I'd only do the scans myself if I wanted quick turn around.

Also if this is just for a DVD. That's only 480 lines. You can do that kind of low-res scan on a flatbed scanner. The 5000 is total overkill. I have an Epson 4870 that does scans better than is required for a DVD slide show. Just look at the DVD's color gamet -- not very big. scans to DVD are "way easy".

Now if you were going to make large prints from the scans it would be totally different.
 
ChrisA said:
Given the time it takes me to scan a slide I think it is cheaper to outsource the work. I'd only do the scans myself if I wanted quick turn around.
Click to expand...

The other argument for not outsourcing would be if you didn't want to take the risk of shipping loss or damage to the positives or negatives. Having seen the occasional UPS or FedEx truck wrecked on the highway that'd probably factor into my decision.
 
ChrisA said:
The 5000 is almost an "industry standard" I doubt it is going away soon. Buy a used one. They sell at about 1/2 the new price.

But scanning is so labor intensive. If you do the work yorself you will be making less than minimum wage. I send mine out to the service that uses a Coolscan 5000ED and charges me about 25 cents per frame. Given the time it takes me to scan a slide I think it is cheaper to outsource the work. I'd only do the scans myself if I wanted quick turn around.

Also if this is just for a DVD. That's only 480 lines. You can do that kind of low-res scan on a flatbed scanner. The 5000 is total overkill. I have an Epson 4870 that does scans better than is required for a DVD slide show. Just look at the DVD's color gamet -- not very big. scans to DVD are "way easy".

Now if you were going to make large prints from the scans it would be totally different.
Click to expand...

thanks for the feedback Chris.
I have thought about it continuing to outsource, but I neglected to mention that my office is in my home so I do have the ability to set things up, let it run and come back to it later that day or the next morning. The company I outsource to has been good, but they have other services so it sometimes takes a bit longer than I'd like.

I talked with a rep yesterday at a local reseller and they've heard that Nikon won't be coming out with new models b/c Nikon figures most folks are now shooting digital only. You are right..the rep I talked with said that this scanner is the main one out there.

I also neglected to mention that, along with using the photos in the DVD production, I also include the full quality version of each photo on the DVD in a data folder so the client can print as needed. I do this b/c I find most of the folks who own slides are older than 45+ and they don't quite understand the DVD/CD situation and want to both view their pics on a TV/computer, as well as print some.

I'll buy one this week and have decided that I will send out a letter to my clients targeting those folks who have done regular transfers. They might have boxes of slides sitting around and with a little memory jig from my end, might help them. :)

PD: thanks for the info from the manual. I've always been leery of the Digital ICE b/c i find it sometimes takes 'good' things as dust and removes them (ie. intricate details on wedding dresses). I'm interested to see it work on a true dedicated scanner though. I've got lots of HD space and a mac pro 2.66 with 11 GBs Ram so no worries on the file size. Bring it on is what i say! :)

Cheers and thanks again folks,
Keebler
 
Digital ICE only works on color scans (negs and E-6 or equivalent) but not monochrome/black and white or Kodachrome. Kodachrome has a different emulsion type which makes the emulsion side surface appear etched if you look at it closely. They retain their color far better than older E-6 (Ektachrome) which is where you'll find all the old faded slides folks may have lying around.

Also, Digital ICE is just a tool which can be left on the "bench." If you have very clean slides you don't need to use it. (although this is unlikely just because of dust, which can be blown off somewhat)
My experience with ICE is that it works amazingly well, and I use it almost always during my scans. If anything it may very, very slightly soften the image, which isn't really that bad or noticeable, and can be offset with a slight sharpening either during scanning or during post-processing. I have never been aware of Digital ICE removing detail from any scan I've done.

I'd say experiment, and see what the scans with and without look like. Also experiment with Digital GEM (try a low setting like 1 at first) but without using Digital ROC, to smooth the image texture, or decrease the appearance of grain. The Nikon scanner's light source can easily reveal grain if their is any.

I'm guessing that after a bit of testing you can find a few custom settings that you can "save" and run them for a batch of slides pretty well, especially from the same film-camera type. Just remember that there are different characteristics in how various film types look when scanned with the same settings, sometimes subtle differences and other times quite different (color cast, contrast, etc.)

Now... about those folks over 45... ahem...<cough, cough> ... that would be me you're talking about. Forty-five definitely ain't old or Steve Jobs would be in a rest home, and I'd have to give up my Mac, PC laptop, HDTV, DVR, satellite internet setup, wireless house, iPod, GSM cellphone - soon to be an iPhone (..."what's a SIM card??" ;)) and my 6-speed stick-shift sports car and my convertible Mustang GT (which hauls a$$ on my twisty country roads here,) and last but not least, my gorgeous girlfriend... so "think different" about "over 45" or you'll get old before your time, mate! :D Life's short enough as it is to be making it even shorter...;)
 
pdxflint said:
Digital ICE only works on color scans (negs and E-6 or equivalent) but not monochrome/black and white or Kodachrome. Kodachrome has a different emulsion type which makes the emulsion side surface appear etched if you look at it closely. They retain their color far better than older E-6 (Ektachrome) which is where you'll find all the old faded slides folks may have lying around.

Also, Digital ICE is just a tool which can be left on the "bench." If you have very clean slides you don't need to use it. (although this is unlikely just because of dust, which can be blown off somewhat)
My experience with ICE is that it works amazingly well, and I use it almost always during my scans. If anything it may very, very slightly soften the image, which isn't really that bad or noticeable, and can be offset with a slight sharpening either during scanning or during post-processing. I have never been aware of Digital ICE removing detail from any scan I've done.

I'd say experiment, and see what the scans with and without look like. Also experiment with Digital GEM (try a low setting like 1 at first) but without using Digital ROC, to smooth the image texture, or decrease the appearance of grain. The Nikon scanner's light source can easily reveal grain if their is any.

I'm guessing that after a bit of testing you can find a few custom settings that you can "save" and run them for a batch of slides pretty well, especially from the same film-camera type. Just remember that there are different characteristics in how various film types look when scanned with the same settings, sometimes subtle differences and other times quite different (color cast, contrast, etc.)

Now... about those folks over 45... ahem...<cough, cough> ... that would be me you're talking about. Forty-five definitely ain't old or Steve Jobs would be in a rest home, and I'd have to give up my Mac, PC laptop, HDTV, DVR, satellite internet setup, wireless house, iPod, GSM cellphone - soon to be an iPhone (..."what's a SIM card??" ;)) and my 6-speed stick-shift sports car and my convertible Mustang GT (which hauls a$$ on my twisty country roads here,) and last but not least, my gorgeous girlfriend... so "think different" about "over 45" or you'll get old before your time, mate! :D Life's short enough as it is to be making it even shorter...;)
Click to expand...

thanks again PD.

I have to apologize - what I said wasn't to offend those in that age bracket - i forgot to say one important thing as part of that sentence.... those clients who have brought me slides have been 45+ and not well understanding - not just the 45+ age bracket :) That would have clarified my market sampling and not to stereotype a generation. I'm in my 30s so i certainly don't aim to 'type folks :)

my bad :)

oops :)

Cheers,
keebler
 
Keebler said:
thanks again PD.

I have to apologize - what I said wasn't to offend those in that age bracket - i forgot to say one important thing as part of that sentence.... those clients who have brought me slides have been 45+ and not well understanding - not just the 45+ age bracket :) That would have clarified my market sampling and not to stereotype a generation. I'm in my 30s so i certainly don't aim to 'type folks :)

my bad :)

oops :)

Cheers,
keebler
Click to expand...

No problem, and no apology required since I didn't really take offense and was kind of pulling your leg just a bit... ;)
 
Nikon Coolscan 5000 and Macs

Hello,

Is it true the Nikon Coolscan 5000 doesn't work too well with Macs?

If so, what slide/fim scanner do you recommend to strap to a Mac runnig the latest OS.

Thanks,

John
 
Canuckistan said:
Hello,

Is it true the Nikon Coolscan 5000 doesn't work too well with Macs?

If so, what slide/fim scanner do you recommend to strap to a Mac runnig the latest OS.

Thanks,

John
Click to expand...

I will jump in on this one since the OP has his question answered.

Some think that the software doesn't work well with Intel Macs since it's not UB (universal binary... i.e. written for both PPC and Intel Macs) but the software is light enough to not cause an issue.

Back when photogs handed me their work on film I used the CSV and never had an issue on the PPC (of course) nor do I have an issue with it now on the Mac Pro.
 
Summary of Coolscan 5000 ED issues & experiences

After 2 or 3 years of experience with the Nikon LS 5000 ED, I wanted to weigh in – if a bit late for this thread – on my results. Except for some Photoshop use over the years, I was new to the finer points of scanning techniques and digital photo manipulation when my project first began. As IT consultant for a longtime client and friend, my job was to learn the ins and outs of this scanner … and get about 20,000 slides scanned, many dating as far back as the late 1960s. Many of these are Ektachrome, but plenty are Kodachrome, some simply labeled Kodak (in black font, rather than red).

The learning curve was not that difficult for me, and forums such as this one came in very handy. Early on I had to increase my knowledge of scanning basics, but this quickly led to specific questions about the Digital ICE feature and other functionality unique to the Nikon scanners. Up until a few weeks ago I have continued to seek answers and advice, as I made one final pass on the most difficult of the Kodachrome slides. In retrospect, I wonder if using Vuescan or Silverfast might have made a difference, but research on another thread shows me that the jury is still out on this one for a lot of folks. There are things I didn’t know early on about customization per scanner model with Silverfast, and many people feel that the Nikon Scan software provided sufficient, if not superior results than either of the competitor’s stuff.

Consistent problems with flare (or a halo effect, as I call it) in Kodachrome scans are the only real complaint which I have with the 5000 ED. Some corrections (in the Nikon Scan software) allowed me to minimize the flare/halo effect, but with blued results which I would rather not correct, slide by slide, in Photoshop. The only way I was able to remove or avoid the halo altogether was to scan with no post-processing. This means getting a high-res scan, as desired, but the images are consistently dark when no post-processing is applied. Almost *anything* in the case of some of these Kodachromes would result in a slight, or even significant halo.

Incidentally, each attempt to gain suggestions or support directly from Nikon, post-product purchase, got me nowhere. Overall Nikon’s tech support seemed uninformed about this issue, clearly noted by many. They skirted the problem of Kodachrome halo/flare effect and the blued tone I sometimes receive, although they mentioned that the internal components of the scanner might need cleaning or servicing – for a fee! I do not believe this unit is at all defective; I believe what I’ve seen is par for the course.

As far as jamming, I never experienced the frequent hang-ups, or nightmares, that some users have. I used the 5000 ED in combination with the SF-210 bulk loader, and many fixes have been suggested for the latter on various forums. I never had to make any adjustments other than using the small dial on the side of the SF-210, although my client has kept his slides in impeccable condition throughout the decades – very few were bent, though some were slightly warped or worn. As part of the loading routine I used a light touch of compressed air, plus a camel-hair brush to remove loose debris. On the Kodachromes, this was sometimes necessary (without the ICE ability). Except for some occasional stubborn mold, most of the Ektachromes cleaned up very nicely with the ICE software.

I cannot be more technical at the moment, and only wanted to provide a general overview of our experiences over the years – at request of my client. I am glad to answer more specific questions or post a follow-up if useful. The project is over and the scanner is being prepared for storage, but it will be used again, I’m sure. Thanks for everything that was posted on this and related threads. It has certainly made my job a lot easier! :)

Also, if there are other forums that anyone knows of where this summary may be useful, please let me know ... or link to this post. Thanks again!
 
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