Not too happy with Sequoia (15.5)

[Levina]

I updated my Mac Mini M2pro from Ventura to Sequoia and I'm not exactly happy with the upgrade.

Here are just three of the things I ran into so far (I just did this).

A major problem is permissions for an external disk that won't allow me to delete files from it from within the Canon DPP app (I opened a thread for that here).

Notifications. I play games sometimes, simple games. I have disabled Game Centre but apparently there is now a "Game Mode" when a game is played in full screen. So when I opened a game I got this notification that I was now in Game Mode with a brief description of what it does. Okay, fine. But then I got the same notification every time I open a game and I was getting really tired of it. I really don't like for an OS to constantly be in my face. Telling me once is quite enough. So I went looking and found a way to disable Game Mode. A sigh of relief. And then I opened a game and got a notification that Game Mode was disabled and that I could enable in the menu. So now I get this notification each and every time I open a game. 😡 If anybody knows a way to disable this I'd be grateful!

I also hate how they buried permission to open software not from Apple or trusted sources in System Preferences. Until now I could open everything from within the warning window, clicking the "open anyway" button. In Sequoia I have to go into System Preferences where that option now resides. Why?! Does Apple think that by burying the option in System Preferences, is going to stop people from opening it?! All it does is adding more steps! 😡

Search within a folder is slower and with external drives connected it literally takes forever. E.g. I export my photos as jpegs to a folder on my internal SSD from where I then upload an image to my forum. There are about 6000 images in that folder. The folder is called "Greens". When I select the folder and then do a search for "birds" it first searches My Mac as it has always done and shows me everything tagged "birds". But I want images in the folder "Greens" so I then select the folder Greens from the window's menu and it shows me a list of images tagged with "birds". Until I updated to Sequoia the list would appear instantly, both on This Mac, as in the folder "Greens". Now it takes 20 seconds to search This Mac on "birds". However, this is without any external disks connected. If I connect the disk with all my photos then the search on This Mac never ends. Or actually , I don't know, I gave up after a minute and a half and clicked on the "Greens" folder. After that the list appeared fairly quickly. Here's what I mean:

So, is it possible to go back to Ventura?

 

[Honza1]

You can control notifications from any application, including Game center, in exhaustively granular way in Notifications in System settings. I assume you can disable even the ones you are seeing. I do not use Game center. But when I am bombarded by any app too much, I disable all notifications from that app and it stops nagging me.

You can give access to any folder/drive to various application in Privacy & Security in Systems settings and if you give write access to your app to the external drive, it will be able to delete the file.

Opening non-Apple, non-App store, non-trusted source software is getting more and more difficult and yes, Apple hopes to prevent users from using it "for our own good". The idea may be that adding enough friction will force authors to get proper certificates and sign properly the software or people will stop using their software. I see the benefit, but there will be edge cases where it is not worth the effort for just few users and these extremely useful tools may disappear. Argument for Apple approach is safety, argument against is user productivity. To be fair, I see this fight happening in business environments where our computers are being more and more limited in the name of security in what these are allowed to do to level when one wonders if business computer is actually worth having.

All of these annoyances we see are added to macOS to tighten controls and prevent abuse and viruses. Apps are allowed only minimum necessary permissions and if you need more, you need to enable more permissions. Thank hackers and virus producers who abuse any opening which is created to do bad things - and which OS companies try to stop. Is it convenient? No. Is it necessary? No idea. Is it here to stay? Yes, likely, very likely...

***

The search you have is broken. You need to rebuild the Spotlight database on the drive. Google how to reset the Spotlight database and do it. I used OnyX to reset mine, but there is easier way which requires no tool. Then leave on long enough to rebuild the index and it should fix the issues you are having. Unluckily, Spotlight does not seem to be too smart to figure out that it needs to rebuild the database on its own. I find it useful to rebuild Spotlight database occasionally, may be every 2-3 months. Takes time, so I do it when convenient not when necessary.

***
Can you downgrade? I do not know, likely. Is it worth it? Not sure, eventually you will need to upgrade and the security is not going to relax. So may be better to deal with it now.

 

[Levina]

You can control notifications from any application, including Game center, in exhaustively granular way in Notifications in System settings. I assume you can disable even the ones you are seeing. I do not use Game center. But when I am bombarded by any app too much, I disable all notifications from that app and it stops nagging me.

I have Game Center disabled altogether, and notifications in System settings are also set to OFF.

But starting a game of chess just now Game Center came calling. I was given a choice: "Choose a different account" or "Use this account". I couldn't even quit the game. So I clicked "Use this account" after which a message appeared, welcoming me to Game Center. There was a logout button and I clicked it. I could then play the game. Question is why Game Center bothers me at all since I have disabled it in System Settings. Before Sequoia you just turned it off and you never saw it again.

The Game mode seems to be something separate though. And you can only turn it off one game at a time.

These games are not listed in System Settings > Notifications

You can give access to any folder/drive to various application in Privacy & Security in Systems settings and if you give write access to your app to the external drive, it will be able to delete the file.

DPP has full disk access but still can't delete any of the images on the external disk. And I have full write and read permissions for the app. Makes no difference.

Opening non-Apple, non-App store, non-trusted source software is getting more and more difficult and yes, Apple hopes to prevent users from using it "for our own good". The idea may be that adding enough friction will force authors to get proper certificates and sign properly the software or people will stop using their software. I see the benefit, but there will be edge cases where it is not worth the effort for just few users and these extremely useful tools may disappear. Argument for Apple approach is safety, argument against is user productivity. To be fair, I see this fight happening in business environments where our computers are being more and more limited in the name of security in what these are allowed to do to level when one wonders if business computer is actually worth having.

All of these annoyances we see are added to macOS to tighten controls and prevent abuse and viruses. Apps are allowed only minimum necessary permissions and if you need more, you need to enable more permissions. Thank hackers and virus producers who abuse any opening which is created to do bad things - and which OS companies try to stop. Is it convenient? No. Is it necessary? No idea. Is it here to stay? Yes, likely, very likely...

To me it's like big brother deciding what's good for me. I don't like it.

***

The search you have is broken. You need to rebuild the Spotlight database on the drive. Google how to reset the Spotlight database and do it. I used OnyX to reset mine, but there is easier way which requires no tool. Then leave on long enough to rebuild the index and it should fix the issues you are having. Unluckily, Spotlight does not seem to be too smart to figure out that it needs to rebuild the database on its own. I find it useful to rebuild Spotlight database occasionally, may be every 2-3 months. Takes time, so I do it when convenient not when necessary.

That's a good suggestion. Thanks.

***
Can you downgrade? I do not know, likely. Is it worth it? Not sure, eventually you will need to upgrade and the security is not going to relax. So may be better to deal with it now.

You can get the security updates without updating the OS itself. But the files of my new camera can't be read by Ventura, which is why I decided to upgrade but I wish I hadn't. AFAIK you could always go back to the OS that was originally installed on your device. Unless that changed, a downgrade should be possible I think.

 

[Honza1]

As far as I can say Game center requires association with Apple account to properly function. If you logged out, it will keep asking you to log in or associate with account. My wife does not seem to be nagged by anything after she logged in. It uses account info to keep your history and sync among devices. Fight this at your own peril.

With respect to installing unsigned apps, Apple is in difficult position. Majority of users are happy to be in "protected" environment where Apple defends them against nasty dangerous internet. Loud minority feels that they should be able to do everything with hardware they own and hates being babysit. I remember times when antivirus was not word we would know or use... System working for both groups is likely impossible to create and manage. Apple chose to be on secure side and we are paying the price and cannot do what we want with our own hardware. I hate that - but man, I myself was happy about the same Apple protections when I gave my children Macs - after they managed to install nasty viruses on their Windows boxes... And they got through high school and university without any more issues!

Big brother is today everywhere. Time of anonymity on line is disappearing, due to companies choice or in some countries laws. You are welcome to fight it and I will hope you succeed. Good luck.

 

[Homy]

I can understand your frustration but the notification for Game Mode disappears by itself after 4-5 seconds so for me it's not more annoying than a regular game logo or startup screen. It disappears before the game itself is even loaded so I haven't even been thinking of disabling it.

 

[Fishrrman]

"Search within a folder is slower and with external drives connected it literally takes forever."

OK, here's some of the best advice you're ever going to get:
Forget about the finder's search function or spotlight. And then...

If you want search tools that WORK, get these two, small, FREE apps:
- EasyFind
and
- Find Any File
(there's really nothing more to be said)

 

[Levina]

"Search within a folder is slower and with external drives connected it literally takes forever."

OK, here's some of the best advice you're ever going to get:
Forget about the finder's search function or spotlight. And then...

If you want search tools that WORK, get these two, small, FREE apps:
- EasyFind
and
- Find Any File
(there's really nothing more to be said)

😂 ❤️

You're so great, Fishrrman. Thank you very much. I will check out the apps!

 

[Levina]

Something else. My disks, both internal and external, are hotter with Sequoia than they have ever been under Ventura.

I had a 2TB connected to the Mac Mini M2Pro but set to inactive. When I came back to the Mac I was surprised that it was hot to the touch. Checking temps in Mac Fans Control, it was 50ºC:

I dread to think what it will rise to under workload.

On Ventura I have never seen that Samsung exceed 38ºC, never. The internal SSD is also hotter under Sequoia.

 

[Levina]

"Search within a folder is slower and with external drives connected it literally takes forever."

OK, here's some of the best advice you're ever going to get:
Forget about the finder's search function or spotlight. And then...

If you want search tools that WORK, get these two, small, FREE apps:
- EasyFind
and
- Find Any File
(there's really nothing more to be said)

I bought Find Any File. Brilliant little app. Thanks again!

 

[Levina]

Something else. My disks, both internal and external, are hotter with Sequoia than they have ever been under Ventura.

I had a 2TB connected to the Mac Mini M2Pro but set to inactive. When I came back to the Mac I was surprised that it was hot to the touch. Checking temps in Mac Fans Control, it was 50ºC:

View attachment 2530289

I dread to think what it will rise to under workload.

On Ventura I have never seen that Samsung exceed 38ºC, never. The internal SSD is also hotter under Sequoia.

View attachment 2530290

I need to update this. Because temps have come down to around 40ºC for the external drive after having gone as high as 70ºC. That's still higher than on Ventura, but not that much and it pretty much stays there when I'm working in Lightroom and/or Photoshop. Maybe the high temps were caused by apps indexing, after the update? In any case, I'm happy how it turned out and there's plenty to like in Sequoia so I'm not downgrading.

 

[Sciuriware]

I need to update this. Because temps have come down to around 40ºC for the external drive after having gone as high as 70ºC. That's still higher than on Ventura, but not that much and it pretty much stays there when I'm working in Lightroom and/or Photoshop. Maybe the high temps were caused by apps indexing, after the update? In any case, I'm happy how it turned out and there's plenty to like in Sequoia so I'm not downgrading.

I always place my external media OFF the floor or desk to enable cooling airflow.

Besides, realise that USB sticks and SSD disks are of a different technique
than rotating magnetic media from the recent past.
In fact, those work a bit like the 'good old' core memory: reading is "destructive".
And core memory too had heating problems (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic-core_memory).
I remember that long program loops then were to be avoided.
;JOOP!

 

[CrushRoller]

One of the worst MacOS releases of the recent years (and i wotk with Macs since System 6)...

 

[Gregg2]

One of the worst MacOS releases of the recent years (and i wotk with Macs since System 6)...

That statement is made by someone on this forum about every new release. The thing is, lots of stuff is environment-specific. Some people will have problems with macOS14 and others won't, but will have problems with macOS15. And it might have something to do with environmental changes made in the interim.

 

[Sciuriware]

That statement is made by someone on this forum about every new release. The thing is, lots of stuff is environment-specific. Some people will have problems with macOS14 and others won't, but will have problems with macOS15. And it might have something to do with environmental changes made in the interim.

And I am having problems with people who complain about every release without details or proof.
Must be fans of ..... (no, don't mention him!).
;JOOP!

 

[CrushRoller]

Problem is that out of 20 or so Macs we have with Sequoia installed almost all of them have problems. None of them had any problems with Sonoma. And they all run an almost identical setup...

 

[Sciuriware]

Problem is that out of 20 or so Macs we have with Sequoia installed almost all of them have problems. None of them had any problems with Sonoma. And they all run an almost identical setup...

Until now all my upgrades (on several machines) had problems, because APPLE increased security and
closed area's that were open since UNIX6
But, that means that the solution was uniform and mandatory for your own welfare.
;JOOP!

 

[Gregg2]

Problem is that out of 20 or so Macs we have with Sequoia installed almost all of them have problems. None of them had any problems with Sonoma. And they all run an almost identical setup...

You've merely restated my post (#13). Same message, different word(s) - setup vs. environment - describes the same thing.

 

[Levina]

I found another issue.

I wanted to open up some space on the internal SSD and moved a Star Trek series taking up 101.54GB to an external disk, then deleted it from the internal disk but it's not reflected in the Finder, nor in Disk Utility.

However, when I put something back from the external disk onto the internal SSD, it is reflected and the available storage space decreases accordingly.

Here's a screenshot. I had 330.95GB on the internal SSD. I deleted 101.54GB so it should then read some 430GB but it doesn't, the amount of space available remained the same.

 

[rmrcu]

I would try re-booting so TRIM can do garbage collection on the SSD.

 

[mac57mac57]

I have long since abandoned Spotlight. When it was first introduced in 10.4 Tiger, it was brilliant. Now I find that no matter what the query, and no matter how specific it is, Spotlight returns hundreds and hundreds of results... so many that finding what I want in the returned set is just too incredibly difficult.

I use Find Any File instead. Find Any File is a simple real-time volume searcher, not unlike Find used to be "back in the day". I say "simple" but I mean that only in Find Any File's non-index based approach. Find Any File is nicely nuanced and supports all sorts of search goodies. I strongly recommend it.

Best of all, for those of us who are still obsessed with our G4s and G5s, Find Any File runs on Leopard (and Sorbet, of course) and, I think, Tiger too (although the then new Spotlight was not that bad on Tiger). Of course, Find Any File runs on all versions of macOS after Tiger. Find Any File... strongly recommended. Turn off Spotlight and go back to a simpler, better way of searching.

 

[Honza1]

I found another issue.

I wanted to open up some space on the internal SSD and moved a Star Trek series taking up 101.54GB to an external disk, then deleted it from the internal disk but it's not reflected in the Finder, nor in Disk Utility.

However, when I put something back from the external disk onto the internal SSD, it is reflected and the available storage space decreases accordingly.

Here's a screenshot. I had 330.95GB on the internal SSD. I deleted 101.54GB so it should then read some 430GB but it doesn't, the amount of space available remained the same.

View attachment 2533051

This has been around for years and you just now figured it out? There are whole web sites which explain how this works. Google it, it is actually interesting read... And it is not new in Sequoia, this came with APFS file system few major releases ago.
Short (and crude) summary: macOS saves TimeMachine snapshots on disks even if you do not use TimeMachine and keeps them for about 24 hours. Designed to provide safety (you can roll back your deletions for 24 hours) and conveniece...
If you delete something, it is kept as part of these snapshots until the last snapshot with these data is deleted. And, even after all is deleted, including all snapshots which contain these data, SSDs may not clean up quickly. Now, if the OS is starved for space, snapshots are deleted ahead of schedule and SSD cleanup gets higher priority, so user does not run out of space... but unless really needed, system will do this at its leisure sometimes, when convenient.
If you want/need to delete snapshots manually, Disk Utility can do that and that will cleanup the drive space faster.
Or, as every good macOS users just ignore it and it will fix itself fine in day or so. Apple knows better ;-)

 

[mac57mac57]

TimeMachine snapshots on disks even if you do not use TimeMachine and keeps them for about 24 hours

Is this true? I am running Monterey on my M1 Max Mac Studio and Sonoma on my M3 Pro MBP. I disable Spotlight and Time Machine on all of my machines, and given that I am playing around with Sorbet Leopard and SL_PPC, I regularly move around large files. When I delete them, I see the space come back right away.

If Time Machine works as you say, this should not be true?

I would be mighty PO'd if Time Machine keeps saving snapshots, consuming both CPU and disk space, when I have explicitly disabled it! Apple does NOT know better, at least not anymore!

 

[Honza1]

Just Google that and read about it, Carbon Copy Cloner had quite a bit info on how this all works when it came out, I am sure it is still there. There were other explanations with varying level of expertise needed.
It is actually marvel of technology. I am not sure why there still are people fighting against it, it seems to work really well, considering how long it is in use and how many computers are using it. But I probably should not be...
By default (again, this is very rough description), unless you go in some crazy ways, TM saves local snapshots for 24 hours, every 2 hours I think. Even when TM is not being used (is switched off). It costs no cpu (it is feature of APFS and costs no cpu to use) and costs little to no disk space, except for rare cases when it shows as user interface indicators like what OP has seen. Snapshots are not copying/moving the data at all - they are only creating a copy of file segment locations and holding on it for some time. While file segments are used by ANY snapshot, they are protected against overwriting. Keep in mind, that if you edit any file, only small part of the file is typically overwritten, so if you keep editing e.g., photo in Photos, Apple saves original and then sequence of filters/operations with parameters you applied. When you change anything, basically only this sequence changes, may be you created final preview jpg version or something. But very large fraction of data never changed and so even if this photo is in many snapshots, any additional disk space used above what the original size is tiny. Same for most other formats like docx etc. Unless you use some binary format which gets routinely completely replaced. Regular users never figure it out.
You assume you are aware, that APFS does not copy a file when you duplicate it on the same drive? It simply creates second (additional) pointer to the file (segments) and protect each file segment until the last pointer that specific segment is removed.

 

[Adora]

Something else. My disks, both internal and external, are hotter with Sequoia than they have ever been under Ventura.

I had a 2TB connected to the Mac Mini M2Pro but set to inactive. When I came back to the Mac I was surprised that it was hot to the touch. Checking temps in Mac Fans Control, it was 50ºC:

View attachment 2530289

I dread to think what it will rise to under workload.

On Ventura I have never seen that Samsung exceed 38ºC, never. The internal SSD is also hotter under Sequoia.

View attachment 2530290

Yesterday one of my external drives got very warm too. I looked if TimeMachine had started but it didn't.

I have a warning indicator when something exceeds 80ºC. Then the fan of my mini maxes out from 1000 to 5000RPM for just a few seconds. I am using the app TG Pro for that.

In Tahoe this happened permanently even if I set it to 95ºC. Launching Safari already was enough. Beta 4 was the worst of all. I had an all day heater in my room, even when sleeping. It wasn't as hot as there was need for the fan to run with more then 1000RPM until Beta 3, but in Beta 4 it was most of the time running a little higher, still silent, but the Mac felt hot.

I downgraded to 15.6 when they released that 26 Beta 4 ugly mess as a Public Beta. Compared to the first 15.0 Beta it's an Alpha version. So I don't expect nothing better from the final version and might not upgrade the next few years. When even a M4 Pro with (10/20cores) is already "overheating" mostly from all GPU clusters and some CPU cores.

Edit: Of course I didn't ran the first Sequoia Betas on the same Mac because it hadn't been released yet, it even was a slower M3 iMac and it never had any problem with heat.

Now after almost two months on Tahoe I really love Sequoia. Before I had my problems with it too. But those were nothing compared to what I experienced with Tahoe.

Also I didn't even know anything above High Sierra, because the Sequoia Beta came shortly after I bought the M3 iMac. So there wasn't much time to realize the differences to Sonoma.

I hope this Mac lasts long enough for my needs. Luckily there is the Studio if I urgently need more RAM and I don't have to wait for a new one what will be available with Tahoe only. I already have 64GB but I lately started using local LLMs. (AI).

 

[Adora]

Is this true? I am running Monterey on my M1 Max Mac Studio and Sonoma on my M3 Pro MBP. I disable Spotlight and Time Machine on all of my machines, and given that I am playing around with Sorbet Leopard and SL_PPC, I regularly move around large files. When I delete them, I see the space come back right away.

If Time Machine works as you say, this should not be true?

I would be mighty PO'd if Time Machine keeps saving snapshots, consuming both CPU and disk space, when I have explicitly disabled it! Apple does NOT know better, at least not anymore!

You can see if there are snapshots with the following Terminal command:

tmutil listlocalsnapshots /

Then you see something like this:

Snapshots for disk /:
com.apple.TimeMachine.2025-07-27-151722.local (dataless)
com.apple.TimeMachine.2025-07-28-113019.local
com.apple.TimeMachine.2025-07-31-124850.local
com.apple.TimeMachine.2025-07-31-173137.local

Disable creating new ones with:

sudo tmutil disablelocal

Deleting old snapshots:

sudo tmutil deletelocalsnapshots YYYY-MM-DD-HHMMSS

or try this to delete all at once:

sudo tmutil thinlocalsnapshots / 9999999999999999 1

You can also use an app like Tinker Tool System, but only to delete and create snapshots: