Notes of Interest on Thunderbolt and MacBook Pro

[MacRumors]

Yesterday, Apple and Intel introduced a new cabling system called Thunderbolt into the new MacBook Pros. As with any new technology, there are a lot of new questions and issues that are raised. Tested.com offers a good overview of the new technology, and Macworld offers a good Frequently Asked Questions about Thunderbolt. We've compiled some of the more interesting notes here.

- First, this Engadget video shows Thunderbolt in action on one of the new MacBook Pros, and does a good job showing the advantages of the faster bandwidth.

- CNet's live coverage reveals that there are no plans to offer Thunderbolt PCIe cards. In fact, Intel says that you will need a new computer/motherboard to get Thunderbolt. That means Mac Pro owners won't be able to add it on to their systems.

10:25 a.m. (Dong Ngo) : There won't be TB PCIe cards it seems. You'll need a new computer.
10:34 a.m. (Dong Ngo) : There won't be add-in TB adapters, you'll need a new computer/motherboard that supports TB.

- CrunchGear notes that while Apple doesn't have an exclusive on Thunderbolt, they have a head start:

At their press release, held shortly after Apple’s update when live, Intel noted that the developer kit for the interface would be provided to other computer manufacturers this spring, and that they didn’t expect OEMs to ship with Thunderbolt until 2012.

- Engadget reports that Thunderbolt will be both backwards and forwards-compatible when it gets the new optical cabling:

...the port you'll find in new MacBook Pros and storage devices can actually take an optical cable when those are cost-effective enough to roll out, because Intel will eventually bake the optical transceivers into the cables themselves.

- Many have noted the new MacBook Pros have shorter battery life specs than last year's MacBook Pros. TechCrunch notes that Apple has been using a different testing protocol to report battery life:

Apple has begun using a new method of battery life testing. And they feel it’s much more accurate in real world scenarios. Specifically they call this the “Wireless Web protocol testing”.

We won't know until reviewers start testing them with identical benchmarks how much shorter the new MacBook Pro battery life actually is.


Article Link: Notes of Interest on Thunderbolt and MacBook Pro

 

[andrewsd]

Wow again hopefully all the complainers about the battery can at least stop complaining for a minute and breath.

 

[ID_Field_Blank]

This is awesome! I just wish I had a real use for it...

 

[SilianRail]

The security implications of being able to easily access PCIe, going above even the operating system, is pretty scary. A malicious Thunderbolt flash drive would be even more dangerous than a USB one (even though those are insanely powerful as it is like Stuxnet), because also receive data as well as having higher privileges.

 

[TheNorthWaves]

the only real downside I can see to this whole TB thing is their statement on needing a whole new computer/mobo. The fact that you can't even somehow retroactively add a TB connection (even at a slower speed) to existing hardware is going to mean that TB probably won't be in my house for another 2-4 years. We have very new macs and they aren't being replaced anytime soon.

And that begs the question: am I going to pay more for peripherals that support TB in the mean time? Nope. In reality if all I can use are USB and FW800 that's where my money will go.

I'm not saying this is a failure, as plenty of people with a TB connection will adopt peripherals that utilize it. However, I think it could be a slow process for a lot of people like me who are perfectly satisfied with USB 2.0.

 

[Wild-Bill]

10:25 a.m. (Dong Ngo) : There won't be TB PCIe cards it seems. You'll need a new computer.
10:34 a.m. (Dong Ngo) : There won't be add-in TB adapters, you'll need a new computer/motherboard that supports TB.

Always sticking it to the Mac Pro guys....

I'm willing to bet a million dollars Apple asked Intel to purposely block implementation into PCIe cards, in order to force Mac Pro owners to upgrade.

Thanks for nothing, Intel/Apple.

 

[alent1234]

no cards for Mac's, i bet when it hits the general market next year we'll get add in cards

 

[Pressure]

[/I]Always sticking it to the Mac Pro guys....

I'm willing to bet a million dollars Apple asked Intel to purposely block implementation into PCIe cards, in order to force Mac Pro owners to upgrade.

Thanks for nothing, Intel/Apple.

Yeah well, I suppose our 2008 Mac Pro's soon are in for an upgraded 2011 Mac Pro

Although I can understand your point and have sympathy for it. I was honestly expecting a PCI-Express card as an upgrade option for adding Thunderbolt to, our still, great workstations. I see no technical reasons why it should be impossible. What I think they, Intel, really mean is that they are not going to supply a PCI-Express add-on card, although willing 3rd parties should be able to.

Hopefully some 3rd party will come up with it!

 

[exscape]

[/I]Always sticking it to the Mac Pro guys....

I'm willing to bet a million dollars Apple asked Intel to purposely block implementation into PCIe cards, in order to force Mac Pro owners to upgrade.

Thanks for nothing, Intel/Apple.

Um. A PCIe card cannot really add a PCIe interface with additional lanes, now can it?
I don't think it's physically POSSIBLE to create Thunderbolt add-in cards, for anyone. It's too low-level, unlike USB which can be plugged in via *existing* PCI Express lanes.

 

[MRU]

[/I]Always sticking it to the Mac Pro guys....

I'm willing to bet a million dollars Apple asked Intel to purposely block implementation into PCIe cards, in order to force Mac Pro owners to upgrade.

Thanks for nothing, Intel/Apple.

Yep... Apple promote the Mac Pro as the powerhouse. The 1 truly expandable piece of hardware for pro market, and yet everytime there is an upgrade we get these fecking artificial lock outs.

Video cards gimped, PCIe cards gimped ?

Other than HDD and Memory, it seems Apple basically tell mac pro users to go ****** themselves every year or two.

This current Mac Pro I have, will be the last Mac Pro I own.

 

[delamart]

Um. A PCIe card cannot really add a PCIe interface with additional lanes, now can it?
I don't think it's physically POSSIBLE to create Thunderbolt add-in cards, for anyone. It's too low-level, unlike USB which can be plugged in via *existing* PCI Express lanes.

That and the fact that Thunderbolt uses a display line in addition to the PCIe line to the controller.

 

[Samh6]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

New mobo's, so dose that mean the AMD platform won't see TB thus making this seem very locked down to intel only?

 

[firestarter]

Yep... Apple promote the Mac Pro as the powerhouse. The 1 truly expandable piece of hardware for pro market, and yet everytime there is an upgrade we get these fecking artificial lock outs.

Paranoid, much?

Um. A PCIe card cannot really add a PCIe interface with additional lanes, now can it?
I don't think it's physically POSSIBLE to create Thunderbolt add-in cards, for anyone. It's too low-level, unlike USB which can be plugged in via *existing* PCI Express lanes.

You're probably correct.

 

[emodro]

just think

Just think of the possibilities, some people say "wish i had a use." I will give you a scenario. You pick yourself up a hub its got firewire, usb, DVI(or hdmi) and thunderbolt on it, you plug in an external monitor (or 2), an external hard drive (firewire/usb), some usb peripherals, keyboard, an audio interface maybe (for pro audio or for some nice speakers). You come home from work (or school) plugin your magsafe, and your thunderbolt and thats it. you no longer need to use any other ports and you have yourself a powerhouse desktop more powerful than some 08/09 mac pro's and almost no cable/ port clutter. You do your browsing/ gaming/ photo/audio/video editing. Next morning you hot plug out the thunderbolt, go to school/ work come home and start it all over. I can't wait.

 

[0007776]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

New mobo's, so dose that mean the AMD platform won't see TB thus making this seem very locked down to intel only?

Could be, but I think that intel will probably license it out to other manufacturers since they want it to be accepted.

 

[emodro]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

New mobo's, so dose that mean the AMD platform won't see TB thus making this seem very locked down to intel only?

AMD will have to find a way to integrate the TB chip into their boards. I doubt intel would lock them out, they want it to be a new standard, and give device manufacturers the ability to develop for the entire market. Hopefully it catches on and doesn't turn into firewire vs usb. Which IMO firewire should have won. hopefully usb3 is out before its even really in.

 

[Mix]

So is it possible to connect more than one external display through Thunderbolt daisy chaining on the macbook pros when they implement thunderbolt in to the cinema displays and if so will these be seperate displays instead of identical ones?

I would love to have 3 screens when mixing audio to video in pro tools. One screen for my Mixer window one for my edit window and one for the video window.

 

[Pressure]

Um. A PCIe card cannot really add a PCIe interface with additional lanes, now can it?
I don't think it's physically POSSIBLE to create Thunderbolt add-in cards, for anyone. It's too low-level, unlike USB which can be plugged in via *existing* PCI Express lanes.

Yep... Apple promote the Mac Pro as the powerhouse. The 1 truly expandable piece of hardware for pro market, and yet everytime there is an upgrade we get these fecking artificial lock outs.

Video cards gimped, PCIe cards gimped ?

Other than HDD and Memory, it seems Apple basically tell mac pro users to go ****** themselves every year or two.

This current Mac Pro I have, will be the last Mac Pro I own.

That and the fact that Thunderbolt uses a display line in addition to the PCIe line to the controller.

This looks very much like a PCI-Express "Thunderbolt" add-on card.

Remember that Thunderbolt merely acts as an external extension of a 4x PCI-Express slot.

 

[gorjan]

So is it possible to connect more than one external display through Thunderbolt daisy chaining on the macbook pros when they implement thunderbolt in to the cinema displays and if so will these be seperate displays instead of identical ones?

I would love to have 3 screens when mixing audio to video in pro tools. One screen for my Mixer window one for my edit window and one for the video window.

Yes, I think they were walking about "up to two screens".

 

[MrSmith]

You have to daisy chain? Can't you use a hub?

 

[mrmarts]

I'am a tech freak i just updated everything i have to apples last year, I can wait for this thunderbolt thing, with no devices available at this time and usb 3.0 still being promoted on the pc end.

I prefer to wait this out its like a showdown between hd and blu ray its going to take sometime before the dust of megabytes settle

 

[RemarkabLee]

Cnet's "New motherboard required" comment: misquoted?

I read elsewhere on the web that Intel mentioned a new motherboard would be required because a PCIe x16 slot would be needed for a Thunderbolt expansion card. In most PC motherboards there is only 1 such slot, populated by a graphics card, so in this scenario a new motherboard is unavoidable.

However in my '09 Mac Pro, there are 2 PCIe x16 slots, 1 used by the graphics card, leaving a spare x16 slot (and a further 2 PCIe x4 slots) - so I don't see a reason why an expansion card cannot be developed. It must be in Apples best interest to serve customers who want to use this new interface and help drive Thunderbolt into mass adoption.

 

[Mix]

So that would mean that I could theoretically use two external screens plus the screen on my macbook pro to get 3 different screens showing three different things at one time.

 

[DELLsFan]

Took the effort to set up laptop, array, display - in a company lobby or Ruby Tuesdays? Either was just as noisy.

 

[firestarter]

I read elsewhere on the web that Intel mentioned a new motherboard would be required because a PCIe x16 slot would be needed for a Thunderbolt expansion card. In most PC motherboards there is only 1 such slot, populated by a graphics card, so in this scenario a new motherboard is unavoidable.

However in my '09 Mac Pro, there are 2 PCIe x16 slots, 1 used by the graphics card, leaving a spare x16 slot (and a further 2 PCIe x4 slots) - so I don't see a reason why an expansion card cannot be developed. It must be in Apples best interest to serve customers who want to use this new interface and help drive Thunderbolt into mass adoption.

It would kind of make sense to implement the Thunderbolt controller on the graphics card itself. After all, you'll want to interleave PCIe and Displayport signals in the same socket - so the socket will need to be connected to the graphics card.

Actually - I can't think of any other way to do it.