Obtaining Apps? Opinions?

[ncmason]

I've been thinking about obtaining software, and I still get in a pickle when it comes to torrenting. It seems so easy and makes me think why not? But then a good side of me says it's wrong. I would love to hear some opinions on this — on whether or not I should shelf out the big bucks or download them for free.

Thanks,
Mason

 

[redwarrior]

Basically, don't steal. There are plenty of free apps out there, so get the free stuff and pay for the other apps you want. If people didn't pay for software, there would be a lot of people, like me, homeless.

I don't know that there is much point to asking this question on this forum anyway. Most will tell you what I did, but may not be as polite about it.

 

[cyclingplatypus]

Not trying to sound like a jerk but, this is all up to you really, I mean in the end you are the one that has to live with your decision.

If you look around most of the big buck software that you are probably looking at has a free or inexpensive alternative of sorts and the open-sourced/shareware community is pretty large and it seems like every other month there is a deal like MacHeist or something going on offering deep discounts on applications.

 

[r.j.s]

As easy as torrenting may seem, there is always the possibility that someone has put something into a torrent, malware wise.

Much of the best software for OS X is free or relatively inexpensive. The exceptions are the pro apps, which if you NEED them, you should be buying them anyway, in order to avoid trouble later.

 

[jaduffy108]

The temptation is strong indeed.

For most, it's black or white. Don't steal. But....what if you want to learn an app to increase your skills or change careers, etc...AND... that particular app costs $1000's of dollars? **IF** you aren't using that app to gain income, then *I* think it's a grey area that seems "ok". One shouldn't have to pay huge amounts of money to have access to the app in order to learn it....IMO.

Autodesk Maya ($2000-$7000), for example, offers a "Learning Edition"...with a watermark, but how does someone make a demo reel using a watermark???!!! Watermark aside, more companies should follow Autodesk's lead (Hello Adobe!! Anybody listening?!?) and provide this type of alternative.

As to suggestions to learn open source software... learning Gimp for example is NOT the equivalent of learning PS.

If someone is making money using the app, then they better pay for it...cuz if you get busted doing that, you're in some serious trouble.

 

[ncmason]

Thanks guys. I'm working on finding free apps similar to ones I had before. I feel much better now

 

[redwarrior]

One shouldn't have to pay huge amounts of money to have access to the app in order to learn it....IMO.

Why would you learn it if you're not going to use it? (Not being a smart a**, just really curious.)

 

[portent]

The temptation is strong indeed.

For most, it's black or white. Don't steal. But....what if you want to learn an app to increase your skills or change careers, etc...AND... that particular app costs $1000's of dollars? **IF** you aren't using that app to gain income, then *I* think it's a grey area that seems "ok". One shouldn't have to pay huge amounts of money to have access to the app in order to learn it....IMO.

Autodesk Maya ($2000-$7000), for example, offers a "Learning Edition"...with a watermark, but how does someone make a demo reel using a watermark???!!! Watermark aside, more companies should follow Autodesk's lead (Hello Adobe!! Anybody listening?!?) and provide this type of alternative.

As to suggestions to learn open source software... learning Gimp for example is NOT the equivalent of learning PS.

If someone is making money using the app, then they better pay for it...cuz if you get busted doing that, you're in some serious trouble.

If you're serious about learning to use something, then you can buy it. Adobe (and just about every software vendor) provides discounted educational pricing to students.

If you're not serious enough about "learning" the product to put down the discounted educational price, then you're not a serious customer, and you aren't worth bothering with. You're just a kid playing around (regardless of your age.) When you grow up, you'll learn that there are, unfortunately, no free rides in life.

On the other hand, if you do want to make a living using Maya, or Photoshop, or Microsoft Office, or whatever, then the full purchase price is nothing. Consider it an investment.

 

[jaduffy108]

Why would you learn it if you're not going to use it? (Not being a smart a**, just really curious.)

No worries.

Again, Maya as an example....I would learn it in order to apply at studios that use that app in the creation of 3d content. Knowing how to animate (art) has NOTHING to do with learning Maya (tool)...yet many studios list the software as a requirement an applicant must possess in order to apply. The studio will of course have paid for licenses. Also, learning Maya and the concepts of 3d creation/animation tools will very likely "cross over" to other apps that a studio might use instead of Maya such as XSI, 3dsMax or their own proprietary software.

Another example, maybe I want to work with a photographer and the way to get my foot in the door is to perform image touch up, etc. Knowing Photoshop would be an essential skill to be considered for that position. The photographer will own a license for PS.

Such examples are endless.

Let us not forget...sometimes companies *want* their software passed around. Case in point, FCP when it was first released. Apple wouldn't say this publicly, but, "back in the day", they stopped just short of flat out encouraging "sharing"! At the time, getting a base of users was critically important.

I don't want to sound like I'm encouraging theft. No doubt, MANY programmers are seriously(!) hurt financially by P2P networks etc. It is WAY out of hand....clearly.... but I don't think the solution is one single alternative of spending thousand of dollars for software in order to pursue a career. I don't think the price of admission should be so high as to allow only the upper middle class to enter a career in digital content creation.

Bottom line...I think it's just wrong that someone be denied an opportunity to LEARN or develop a skill because the software costs $7000! Wanna be a Maya VFX nCloth TD? Pony up $7000 **just** for the software..then sign up at TD-College for your education. The Maya Learning Edition ain't got nCloth or Fluids or Fur. Is this a complicated issue? you bet....which is why when I start reading all of the "black/white"..."holier than thou" posts, I take the other side. Btw, most of those holier than thou posters have iPods full of unpaid for mp3s.

peace

 

[jaduffy108]

If you're serious about learning to use something, then you can buy it. Adobe (and just about every software vendor) provides discounted educational pricing to students.

If you're not serious enough about "learning" the product to put down the discounted educational price, then you're not a serious customer, and you aren't worth bothering with. You're just a kid playing around (regardless of your age.) When you grow up, you'll learn that there are, unfortunately, no free rides in life.

On the other hand, if you do want to make a living using Maya, or Photoshop, or Microsoft Office, or whatever, then the full purchase price is nothing. Consider it an investment.

How much do you make a year? How dare I ask this? Clearly, money isn't an issue for you. I'm happy for you, but unfortunately you seem to conclude anyone without your privileges in life simply doesn't deserve the same opportunities you have. As you say, "not worth bothering with". Nice.

Harsh? Indeed. The software you simply *shrug* off as "nothing" (Maya, Photoshop, MS Office for Mac) is about $8000. I assume that's loose change for you.

Student discounts are huge indeed. What if the person isn't a student for whatever reason...should that preclude them from studying to be a flash animator, etc?

Also...just curious...any unpaid for mp3's on your iPod?

Sorry to take this thread in this direction...

 

[jaduffy108]

I feel much better now

There's your answer.

 

[redwarrior]

No worries.

I would learn it in order to apply at studios that use that app in the creation of 3d content. Knowing how to animate (art) has NOTHING to do with learning Maya (tool)...yet many studios list the software as a requirement an applicant must possess in order to apply. The studio will of course have paid for licenses.

peace

Point taken, I understand now.

Harsh? Indeed. The software you simply *shrug* off as "nothing" (Maya, Photoshop, MS Office for Mac) is about $8000. I assume that's loose change for you.

Student discounts are huge indeed. What if the person isn't a student for whatever reason...should that preclude them from studying to be a flash animator, etc?

Also...just curious...any unpaid for mp3's on your iPod?

Sorry to take this thread in this direction...

(We knew the thread would go in this direction, it's the nature of the discussion.)

We have the same issue with paying tuition. Some people simply can not get a higher education because they are financially unable to, or choose to see that there is no way.

If someone is providing a product or service at a price, you are stealing if you take it without paying, period.

Yes, that includes mp3's! And I'm guilty too, so don't think I'm taking the holier-than-thou attitude here. Just trying to inspire higher thinking. If you want or need something bad enough, you can find a way to get it legally; there is always a way.

 

[portent]

How much do you make a year? How dare I ask this? Clearly, money isn't an issue for you.
Harsh? Indeed. I'm happy for you, but unfortunately you seem to conclude anyone without your privileges in life simply doesn't deserve the same opportunities you have. As you say, "not worth bothering with". Nice.

You're right, I was born with a great advantage over many people, including yourself: I was taught by my poor, working-class parents that I had to work hard and sacrifice for what I wanted. I did so for many years. As a result, I am now quite comfortable, yes.

If your parents taught you that poverty justified taking what you had no right to take, then I feel sorry for you indeed. With that attitude, you will be at a lifelong disadvantage.

The software you simply *shrug* off as "nothing" (Maya, Photoshop, MS Office for Mac) is about $8000. I assume that's loose change for you.

Quite the contrary. But if that was how I wanted made my living, I would bite the bullet and make the investment. If I suspected that I could not recoup the expense, I would consider a more feasible career plan...one that required a lower up-front investment, or one that provided a better chance at success.

Student discounts are huge indeed. What if the person isn't a student for whatever reason...should that preclude them from studying to be a flash animator, etc?

Of course not. This person would be well within his or her rights to save up the full purchase price. If that was still infeasible, then he or she could always enroll in a community college to avail him or herself of the student discounts, and quite possibly learn how to make a decent, honest living in the process.

Also...just curious...any unpaid for mp3's on your iPod?

No.

Sorry to take this thread in this direction...

Sorry to be the one that has to explain what a cruel place the real world is. Hope you can come to terms with that.

 

[Julien]

The temptation is strong indeed.
....*I* think it's a grey area that seems "ok". One shouldn't have to pay huge amounts of money to have access to the app in order to learn it....IMO...

I'm thinking about leaning to drive a Ferrari. Glad to know it's only a gray area to do this and I shouldn't have to pay a huge amount of money to have access.