Old School

[Raging Dufus]

So, I began law school yesterday. I'm probably about twice the age of the average law student, and as far as I can tell, the oldest in my class. I had to purchase a new-to-me 2.4 GHz MacBook Pro 3,1 because I needed El Capitan in order to run some of the school's required software. The machine is 11 years old at this point, and it's the first Intel Mac I've ever bought for a purpose and kept (I've toyed around with a couple of Intel Mini's, but haven't actually put them to any sort of daily use).

I was with several dozen other Mac-using students in a classroom where one of the school's IT staff (a young guy, seemed to be in his mid-20's or so) was assisting us with getting set up on the school's network. I'm the only one using older kit; and IT dude comes to me and says, "I love your old MacBook Pro, that's legit!"...to which I replied that if the school hadn't required El Cap as a minimum, I'd be in here with a PowerBook. He seemed impressed, commenting about how cool it was that I was "old school," so I told him about the other Power Macs I had. He was suitably impressed - made my day

I know there's a lot of people here on this forum even younger than the guy I'm talking about, who are kicking it old school, along with the rest of us who've been rocking our Power Macs for a while. Party on my friends

 

[vddrnnr]

Hi Raging,

I had never used "OLD" PPC macs before last year and I must say
although not as powerful as newer Intels getting them going Is a pleasure.
Right now I'm also "building" a One-of-a-Kind 17 inch CoreDUO Macbook Pro.
I have it running Lion in 32 bit mode and it still has enough punch for every day use.
In the end PPC last gen Macs and Pre-Unibody Intels are still my favourite ones
especially in the design.

Must be getting old

Best regards,
voidRunner

 

[eyoungren]

We have a G4 at work that is our Applescript server. Another G4 functions as a print server. Without it, my fancy Mid-2010 MacPro doesn't print.

The front desk is using a G5 that was my Mac from 2005 to mid-2013.

 

[Dronecatcher]

I know there's a lot of people here on this forum even younger than the guy I'm talking about, who are kicking it old school, along with the rest of us who've been rocking our Power Macs for a while.

It's always been natural for the younger generation to either reject the previous generation or embrace parts of it to buck the trends of their contemporaries...hence there are lots who fully embrace old school computing, listen to music on vinyl, cassettes and CDs and choose film photography over digital.
As someone who's lived through and embraced the analogue to digital transition, I find myself backtracking more and more...because it's just more fun

 

[Amethyst1]

My dad is still using the iBook G4 he bought in December 2004 as his only machine, simply because it does everything he needs it to do.

 

[pl1984]

My dad is still using the iBook G4 he bought in December 2004 as his only machine, simply because it does everything he needs it to do.

I wonder how many people have discarded perfectly capable systems (including mobile phones) merely for something newer.

 

[eyoungren]

It's always been natural for the younger generation to either reject the previous generation or embrace parts of it to buck the trends of their contemporaries...hence there are lots who fully embrace old school computing, listen to music on vinyl, cassettes and CDs and choose film photography over digital.
As someone who's lived through and embraced the analogue to digital transition, I find myself backtracking more and more...because it's just more fun

Apparently I timed my birth just right.

I was able to live through the 80s (the BEST decade of my life so far) and by the time my kids came around everything 80s is popular again.

My 10 year old daughter's clothing and accessory style is straight out of the 1980s with zero encouragement from me.

Although my son does reflect my wife's opinion about the 80s, which is completely opposite of mine.

 

[Raging Dufus]

Must be getting old

I prefer to think of myself as "seasoned."

And, you and I have the same tastes in computing hardware; although I would make an exception for the G5's. I'm more of a G4 person myself.
[doublepost=1534888103][/doublepost]

I was able to live through the 80s (the BEST decade of my life so far) and by the time my kids came around everything 80s is popular again.

I love all the current 80's nostalgia. My high school and early college years were in the 80's, which tends to leave an impression on a person, so yeah: I think the 80's were the best decade EVER. Even so, I'm not about to go put on some parachute pants...
[doublepost=1534888835][/doublepost]

I wonder how many people have discarded perfectly capable systems (including mobile phones) merely for something newer.

I can't stand to see perfectly useful things chucked in the bin. A while back I read somewhere that the mindset of Depression-era (U.S.) folks was something along the lines of, "use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without." I've embraced that philosophy in my own life as much as possible. I have yet to own a vehicle made in this century (although my next one will almost certainly be). I buy quality clothing and wear it til it gets holes, then use it for a grease rag when I'm fixing my old car, or old lawnmower, or what have you. Most of our furnishings have come from garage/estate sales. You get the idea.

And, I'd have to say, we don't really feel as though we lack much. I love fixing up and using old computers, and although I don't have anything against the new stuff, I prefer to use a PowerPC Mac with Leopard over any other computing experience I've ever had.

 

[eyoungren]

I love all the current 80's nostalgia. My high school and early college years were in the 80's, which tends to leave an impression on a person, so yeah: I think the 80's were the best decade EVER. Even so, I'm not about to go put on some parachute pants...

That's me on the right…

 

[swamprock]

The only real nostalgia that I have left for the 80s is the music and arcade games, and even that only goes up to 1983 (the best year of my life thus far). With some extraordinary exceptions, it's been all downhill since. Much of this is due to the fact that everything that was mysterious to me back then is now no longer much of a mystery. I've met and spoken to almost all of the classic arcade game designers that I worshiped back then; even formed friendships with a few of them; and now everything is laid out on this interweb thing for anyone to find. Good, but bittersweet at the same time.

 

[z970]

The only real nostalgia that I have left for the 80s is the music and arcade games, and even that only goes up to 1983 (the best year of my life thus far). With some extraordinary exceptions, it's been all downhill since. Much of this is due to the fact that everything that was mysterious to me back then is now no longer much of a mystery. I've met and spoken to almost all of the classic arcade game designers that I worshiped back then; even formed friendships with a few of them; and now everything is laid out on this interweb thing for anyone to find. Good, but bittersweet at the same time.

How have you spoken/formed friendships with them?
[doublepost=1534948961][/doublepost]

That's me on the right…

View attachment 777111

From this angle, the handle looks slightly crooked in relation to the cup.

That must drive you insane.

 

[eyoungren]

From this angle, the handle looks slightly crooked in relation to the cup.

That must drive you insane.

I think it's the angle. The cup is slightly turned to the handle is distorted I think.

 

[z970]

I think it's the angle. The cup is slightly turned to the handle is distorted I think.

Well, it drives me insane.

 

[swamprock]

How have you spoken/formed friendships with them?

I wrote for an independent video game magazine in the late 90s/early 00s, and interviewed quite a few of them. I also designed and maintained Owen Rubin's website (orubin.com) for quite a few years (and it still looks the same...wow). Owen and I made a few attempts at designing a game together, but both of us ran out of free time to finish it. I also kept in contact with Eugene Jarvis, Tim Skelly, Jed Margolin, Ed Logg, Al Alcorn, and Ed Rotberg for many years, to drop a few names...

 

[z970]

I wrote for an independent video game magazine in the late 90s/early 00s, and interviewed quite a few of them. I also designed and maintained Owen Rubin's website (orubin.com) for quite a few years (and it still looks the same...wow). Owen and I made a few attempts at designing a game together, but both of us ran out of free time to finish it. I also kept in contact with Eugene Jarvis, Tim Skelly, Jed Margolin, Ed Logg, Al Alcorn, and Ed Rotberg for many years, to drop a few names...

Cool.

Mr. Celebrity-Man.

 

[Slix]

I've rarely run into folks like myself who prefer or at least know about older Macs these days... I'm also in my early 20's, so I can relate! I think there's something to be sad about that combination of nostalgia, trying to make things work with older "less capable" hardware and software, and of course, "cool factor". It's really crazy to me that even while I was in college, rarely any of the Computer Science majors like myself had any or really knew about any older Macs, prior to the ~2010 era. It's kind of sad.

 

[1042686]

No worries - Those are the same prosumers that go to Taco Bell for an ethnic experience.

Cheap, functional, fun. Old macs are a great hobby.

 

[AphoticD]

Great thread!

I get the impression there are more people showing interest in hardware longevity. We’re at a stage in technology where a Mac from 10 years ago is what I would consider an amazing piece of hardware, with plenty of life still in it.

PowerPC Macs are interesting to own and operate. This alternative architecture provides a unique angle on computing and can allow us to be creative in ways which would otherwise become washed out with the multitude of software options provided by modern systems.

This can become a case of increased focus and productivity via hardware enforced limitations - think of all the diffused energy wasted by the best of us when it comes to modern distractions. Many of these distractions either aren’t available or may be limited on our PowerPC systems, so the priorities of distracted energy are diminished.

Of the more than one hundred different Macs I’ve owned throughout my life, my PowerBook G4 12” and PowerMac G5 from 2005, along with my mighty Mac Pro from 2008 are all I need to operate in every aspect of computing.

 

[Raging Dufus]

This alternative architecture provides a unique angle on computing and can allow us to be creative in ways which would otherwise become washed out with the multitude of software options provided by modern systems.

This can become a case of increased focus and productivity via hardware enforced limitations - think of all the diffused energy wasted by the best of us when it comes to modern distractions. Many of these distractions either aren’t available or may be limited on our PowerPC systems, so the priorities of distracted energy are diminished.

Well said, I couldn't agree more.

One of the reasons I've stubbornly clung to Mac OS X on the PowerPC architecture is because of those limitations. I took the time to learn the basics of how OS X worked when I started, and I've added to that knowledge over time. I've stayed because the rules aren't changing; which gives me the freedom to continue adding to my knowledge and increasing my skills without having to worry about the next "upgrade" pulling the rug out from under me by introducing some new...ahem, "feature"... that fundamentally alters the way I use my computer; and that sooner or later ceases to be an option and becomes mandatory if you want to keep up to date.

Nobody has any fun playing a game where the rules keep changing. But I'm having all sorts of fun using my Power Macs thanks to die-hards like yourself and others. Thanks!

 

[pl1984]

PowerPC Macs are interesting to own and operate. This alternative architecture provides a unique angle on computing and can allow us to be creative in ways which would otherwise become washed out with the multitude of software options provided by modern systems.

While I'm a big PPC fan I fail to understand how the PPC architecture achieves this over any other architecture (at least the old Macintosh PPC architecture). I use my PPC systems for fun but when it comes to most work I use something more modern.
[doublepost=1535055925][/doublepost]

One of the reasons I've stubbornly clung to Mac OS X on the PowerPC architecture is because of those limitations. I took the time to learn the basics of how OS X worked when I started, and I've added to that knowledge over time. I've stayed because the rules aren't changing; which gives me the freedom to continue adding to my knowledge and increasing my skills without having to worry about the next "upgrade" pulling the rug out from under me by introducing some new...ahem, "feature"... that fundamentally alters the way I use my computer; and that sooner or later ceases to be an option and becomes mandatory if you want to keep up to date.

You're not forced to update on a modern Mac system. If you want to continue using El Capitan then continue to do so. If you're using PPC then you're not concerned with keeping up to date so why would you do so with a later Mac model?

 

[Raging Dufus]

You're not forced to update on a modern Mac system.

Well sure, I get that. I mean, there's people out there still using OS 9 on machines that will happily run Leopard. Apple has never forced an update on anyone.

If you want to continue using El Capitan then continue to do so.

Using El Cap - or for that matter an Intel Mac, period - wasn't something I wanted to do in the first place. I'd happily be using my PPC systems for what I'm now using the MBP for, if they were capable of running the exam security software that my law school uses. That was the only reason I switched. Nobody twisted my arm, mind you; and if I wanted, I could just forgo a computer entirely for my exams, and hand write everything...but I'd rather switch than write. Before I'm done with law school, it wouldn't surprise me if I have to update to High Sierra to keep up, and I'll do that too.

I didn't mean to give anyone the impression that I was complaining about it. But I'm a curmudgeon, so...well...I'm just a curmudgeon.

If you're using PPC then you're not concerned with keeping up to date so why would you do so with a later Mac

One of the things I love about PPC is that I don't have to. Intel Macs, however, are altogether different beasts; because under their beautiful skin lies all the vulnerabilities inherent to the x86 platform. I wouldn't dare use an Intel Mac running OSX/MacOS much past Apple discontinuing security updates - at least not for a daily driver. If I end up keeping my MBP after that happens, I'll most likely switch to some flavor of Linux on it. But even the best of Linux these days isn't comparable to Tiger or Leopard, so I'll still likely prefer my old Power Macs as long as I can still get them online.

 

[MysticCow]

Well sure, I get that. I mean, there's people out there still using OS 9 on machines that will happily run Leopard. Apple has never forced an update on anyone.

Well I do prefer a responsive OS and Mac OS 9 is wonderful for that.

But I will admit to skinning OS 9 to look and act like X.

 

[eyoungren]

We have had a few discussions here in the past on what PowerPC can and cannot do and who will upgrade based on whatever preference or requirement.

This thread seems to be moving into that territory. So…I'll just say (again) that it all comes down to meeting your need or not.

My needs are on an ever sliding scale. As my needs increase I move further up the Mac production years. Right now I'm in late PowerPC/Early Intel. In 3-5 years there won't be any PowerPC Mac (even my Quad) that will meet my needs.

My needs at work are very different from my needs at home. But, all of us are different and all of us make choices.

This is one of the reasons I have multiple computers.

 

[z970]

But even the best of Linux these days isn't comparable to Tiger or Leopard.

I can safely debunk this from personal experience.

 

[Raging Dufus]

Well I do prefer a responsive OS and Mac OS 9 is wonderful for that.

But I will admit to skinning OS 9 to look and act like X.

Yeah, I did that too, back when I was using OS 9; and you're right, it runs like a rocket, especially on G4's.

If the online experience weren't so limited, I might still be using OS 9. I know it's the platform of choice for many who do certain things, like audio production; but I myself don't do anything on my Macs that OS X can't do just as well or better.
[doublepost=1535066200][/doublepost]

I can safely debunk this from personal experience.

I know MR labeled me "newbie", but I've been lurking around here for a long time. I've seen your debunking, and your points are well taken, but I don't share your opinion.

All my PPC Macs, except one, are G4's. I've tried Debian and Ubuntu on some of the more powerful ones, and the experience left me lacking. If I had a working G5, I'd happily give PPC64 Linux a go, but me and G5's don't seem to get along. I've got a couple gathering dust because they're temperamental machines and I lack the time and patience to get them going; so if it's PowerPC, for me, it's going to be OS X for the foreseeable future.
[doublepost=1535067166][/doublepost]

We have had a few discussions here in the past on what PowerPC can and cannot do and who will upgrade based on whatever preference or requirement.

This thread seems to be moving into that territory.

Yeah, I think I did that. Sorry, I know that gets tedious.

My needs at work are very different from my needs at home. But, all of us are different and all of us make choices.

This is one of the reasons I have multiple computers.

Me too. I've even got a couple of Windows PC's in the mix, because the rest of the family doesn't share my love of Macs. I'm fine with that, and there's some things - like using MS Office, for example - where Windows provides the superior experience.

I'd happily get along with only my PowerPC Macs if it was just me, but I'm not using them to earn a living, so I have that luxury. Except for the whole law school/El Cap business.