One thing occurred to me... Society.

[PinkyMacGodess]

Watching a movie about talking to whales. 'I feel so inadequate' 'I feel so small compared to whales, and elephants'.

Elephants will gather around a dead member of their group, and grieve. Family members will come back to that spot to grieve, and morn their dead. They will train their offspring to behave, and honor other elephants. Whales are largely the same. Divers who have dove with gigantic whales, who could easily destroy them with a flick of a tail, see them relax and 'coast' along with divers, rarely doing anything that will endanger them. Whales will talk to other whales even over differences in dialects and all of it. Whales remember who they have met, and react to meeting them again.

Why?

Hate is easy. Anger is easy. Its all inside. If you hate something, a living entity, a person, a neighbor, etc, it's all inside you. To love, to respect another entity means you have to expend some energy to realize their effect on your life, to see beyond their looks, their speech, their outer affect. Hating people that are different is really easy. Loving and respecting people that are different is hard. It takes work... You have to see beyond their 'flaws'. It seems that other animals have evolved beyond superficial and subjective opinions.

'You are an elephant' is enough for elephants. 'You are a whale' is enough for whales too.

I feel humbled to share the world with so many creatures that make me look so childish, primitive, ridiculous, toxic, unsustainable, and so haughty, egotistical, unreasonable, cruel, damaging, destructive. We have so much to learn about how to survive in this world.

*sigh*

 

[DeepIn2U]

You’ve reached an epiphany.

I fully agree and have been conscious of everything you’ve stated since i was a child. From Jungle Books description of elephants to watching people’s choice of faiths, spiritualit’s, religion, the most common thing amongst human beings is in how we treat the dead in saying goodbye. We bury, creamate/burn, deliver out to sea, or ? with internet. It’s humbling.

 

[Crowbot]

In that vein: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-40616-4

I would never trust someone who doesn't like animals. It's a short run to not liking people.

 

[AngerDanger]

Anger is easy.

Maybe after a couple of drinks…

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

In that vein: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-40616-4

I would never trust someone who doesn't like animals. It's a short run to not liking people.

A neighbor where I grew up used to shoot cats in the neighborhood. He took that to shooting my sister, and others. Yeah, the road from animal abuse to being someone who causes pain in other humans is short, and well traveled.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Maybe after a couple of drinks…

Interesting you posted that. I was talking with a friend last weekend, about flying and drinking. He was saying that the number of people that are getting violent makes removing alcohol in airports and planes necessary. I was shocked. I get really calm after a glass or two of wine on a plane. My brother becomes a monster. Weird how alcohol can effect some people one way, and others the opposite. Weird... I wonder why he's so triggered by alcohol.

 

[yaxomoxay]

You’ve reached an epiphany.

I fully agree and have been conscious of everything you’ve stated since i was a child. From Jungle Books description of elephants to watching people’s choice of faiths, spiritualit’s, religion, the most common thing amongst human beings is in how we treat the dead in saying goodbye. We bury, creamate/burn, deliver out to sea, or ? with internet. It’s humbling.

Agreed. Death is important, death is renewal. Death is change. It is also inevitable.

I'd like to point to one of the best texts about death, Seneca's letter titled "On the shortness of life," which should be mandatory reading. It's easy to find on google.

A few quotes:

It is not that we have a short space of time, but that we waste much of it. Life is long enough, and it has been given in sufficiently generous measure to allow the accomplishment of the very greatest things if the whole of it is well invested.

Can anything be sillier than the point of view of certain people—I mean those who boast of their foresight? They keep themselves very busily engaged in order that they may be able to live better; they spend life in making ready to live!

Everybody agrees that no one pursuit can be successfully followed by a man who is preoccupied with many things—eloquence cannot, nor the liberal studies—since the mind, when distracted, takes in nothing very deeply, but rejects everything that is, as it were, crammed into it. There is nothing the busy man is less busied with than living: there is nothing that is harder to learn

The condition of all who are preoccupied is wretched, but most wretched is the condition of those who labour at preoccupations that are not even their own, who regulate their sleep by that of another, their walk by the pace of another, who are under orders in case of the freest things in the world—loving and hating. If these wish to know how short their life is, let them reflect how small a part of it is their own.

 

[eyoungren]

Watching a movie about talking to whales. 'I feel so inadequate' 'I feel so small compared to whales, and elephants'.

Elephants will gather around a dead member of their group, and grieve. Family members will come back to that spot to grieve, and morn their dead. They will train their offspring to behave, and honor other elephants. Whales are largely the same. Divers who have dove with gigantic whales, who could easily destroy them with a flick of a tail, see them relax and 'coast' along with divers, rarely doing anything that will endanger them. Whales will talk to other whales even over differences in dialects and all of it. Whales remember who they have met, and react to meeting them again.

Why?

Hate is easy. Anger is easy. Its all inside. If you hate something, a living entity, a person, a neighbor, etc, it's all inside you. To love, to respect another entity means you have to expend some energy to realize their effect on your life, to see beyond their looks, their speech, their outer affect. Hating people that are different is really easy. Loving and respecting people that are different is hard. It takes work... You have to see beyond their 'flaws'. It seems that other animals have evolved beyond superficial and subjective opinions.

'You are an elephant' is enough for elephants. 'You are a whale' is enough for whales too.

I feel humbled to share the world with so many creatures that make me look so childish, primitive, ridiculous, toxic, unsustainable, and so haughty, egotistical, unreasonable, cruel, damaging, destructive. We have so much to learn about how to survive in this world.

*sigh*

Anger and hate are easy. They are reactions. Love is difficult, it requires effort and giving of yourself and while it can be a reaction it is primarily a conscious effort. While it's easy to love your family (or most of them) it's harder to love your neighbor.

Most people are selfish and most people resent having to think - because thinking challenges values and beliefs and it takes an effort to change. Most people do NOT want to change, particularly when changing means acknowledging fault. It's much easier to see fault and blame in others than in yourself.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Anger and hate are easy. They are reactions. Love is difficult, it requires effort and giving of yourself and while it can be a reaction it is primarily a conscious effort. While it's easy to love your family (or most of them) it's harder to love your neighbor.

Most people are selfish and most people resent having to think - because thinking challenges values and beliefs and it takes an effort to change. Most people do NOT want to change, particularly when changing means acknowledging fault. It's much easier to see fault and blame in others than in yourself.

I beg to differ on anger being a conscious effort/action. It is a reaction and reactions come VERY quick as they're based on pure emotion without control. It's ok to feel anger - this is only human, but how we act with that emotion, what we do (pre thought or not) is the real test of consciousness and control or lack thereof.

In other words ... people can choose 'to be the thermostat, not the thermometer'

 

[eyoungren]

I beg to differ on anger being a conscious effort/action. It is a reaction and reactions come VERY quick as they're based on pure emotion without control. It's ok to feel anger - this is only human, but how we act with that emotion, what we do (pre thought or not) is the real test of consciousness and control or lack thereof.

In other words ... people can choose 'to be the thermostat, not the thermometer'

Reread the first part of my post. It is love that I said is a conscious effort/action.

You're right that you can control your anger (something I am still learning).

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Anger and hate are easy. They are reactions. Love is difficult, it requires effort and giving of yourself and while it can be a reaction it is primarily a conscious effort. While it's easy to love your family (or most of them) it's harder to love your neighbor.

Most people are selfish and most people resent having to think - because thinking challenges values and beliefs and it takes an effort to change. Most people do NOT want to change, particularly when changing means acknowledging fault. It's much easier to see fault and blame in others than in yourself.

Anger and hate are 'internal'. Love and respect are 'external'. Internal meaning it's the hater that is doing the hate. Its passing judgement, denying value, minimizing someone. Love and respect is SEEING the person, reading the person, grokking the person. Seeing their value, their worth, their intricacies, and acknowledging their existence. Too often haters seek to devalue their targets so much that they want them to not exist any longer. That is what is so distressing about the times we are in now. The only people I think that 'deserve' the death penalty are those that sexually abuse children. They break a level of trust that, in my mind, when violated, should carry a huge cost.

But I'm getting out there too much.

Yeah, 'we' need to develop that muscle, the thinking muscle, and THINK about where we want to end up, and to THINK about our actions, and where they are heading, and if we want to be there. Too many people expect their direction to come from without. The problem is, when you let someone else drive your car, you lose control, and you can be driven into a wall, off a cliff, into an ocean. I think, oddly, that reading for pleasure helps tone that 'muscle'. I love to read. I love to think about what I've read. It's like food for the mind...

 

[eyoungren]

Anger and hate are 'internal'. Love and respect are 'external'. Internal meaning it's the hater that is doing the hate. Its passing judgement, denying value, minimizing someone. Love and respect is SEEING the person, reading the person, grokking the person. Seeing their value, their worth, their intricacies, and acknowledging their existence. Too often haters seek to devalue their targets so much that they want then to not exist any longer. That is what is so distressing about the times we are in now. The only people I think that 'deserve' the death penalty are those that sexually abuse children. They break a level of trust that, in my mind, when violated, should carry a huge cost.

But I'm getting out there too much.

Yeah, 'we' need to develop that muscle, the thinking muscle, and THINK about where we want to end up, and to THINK about our actions, and where they are heading, and if we want to be there. Too many people expect their direction to come from without. The problem is, when you let someone else drive your car, you lose control, and you can be driven into a wall, off a cliff, into an ocean. I think, oddly, that reading for pleasure helps tone that 'muscle'. I love to read. I love to think about what I've read. It's like food for the mind...

I have said elsewhere that a lot of people are lazy thinkers. Thinking expends energy and it's much easier to allow other people to make decisions for you so you do not have to think. The flip side is that you can blame them when things go wrong.

Yet I am guilty of not thinking sometimes myself, or making preconceptions that turned out to be wrong. So I have to include myself in this category as well. It just comes down to how much you are willing to change or adapt I guess. However, righteous indignation and dealing from a position that you firmly believe is right (when it's evil and wrong) is a strong draw for people.

If you can minimize people and justify your hate and anger towards them then feeling superior and as if you have done nothing wrong at all just comes along with that.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Interesting. I was thinking just a second ago, 'Do I hate'. Hmm...

Yes, I would have to say I do. But looking at the wasted emotion that hate is, I would say that I dislike more than I 'hate'. There are people that I 'dislike'. They are of little use to me. They are judgemental, and likely have deemed me to be at some level below what they would like to experience. That's fine, but I'd rather not be around people like that.

I do try to make a conscious effort to not give in to hate, and it's sometimes hard, I have to admit.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

If you can minimize people and justify your hate and anger towards them then feeling superior and as if you have done nothing wrong at all just comes along with that.

And that's where I feel some people use religion to provide them cover for what they do. In some cases. I was savagely attacked on a bike trip b someone who felt superior through their religion. I was shocked, but not surprised. Too many religions seem to enable people to judge others, and they tend to judge harshly. After quitting a church because the minister attacked John Denver (Rocky Mountain High promoted drug use) I was assaulted by some of the members of their youth group. That really bothered me for quite a while. It still does at times.

 

[eyoungren]

And that's where I feel some people use religion to provide them cover for what they do. In some cases. I was savagely attacked on a bike trip b someone who felt superior through their religion. I was shocked, but not surprised. Too many religions seem to enable people to judge others, and they tend to judge harshly. After quitting a church because the minister attacked John Denver (Rocky Mountain High promoted drug use) I was assaulted by some of the members of their youth group. That really bothered me for quite a while. It still does at times.

I accepted Christ when I was five (1975). My wife is saved and so are my kids. I was raised in the church and I have a heightened ability to detect hypocrisy. Unfortunately for them (hypocrites) I chose to actually believe what they preached about Jesus and the Bible, versus following their lead.

I on my own and together with my wife have left churches that we felt were wrong. While I can't always quote chapter and verse, I do know what the Bible says and what's in there. It seems to me that a lot of people like to use Old Testament to justify their hate and actions, while completely ignoring the grace that Jesus brought with the New Testament.

Jesus had a lot to say about love and how to treat others. I'm nothing like Jesus in that regard, but I try every day.

I'm sorry you had that experience. Jesus said to love one another as he loved us - not to attack others.

BTW, there's a term out there called evilgellicals. Some people fit that description I think.

 

[MacBH928]

I think greed is a characteristics of the human being. All other life forms attack for survival or in defense. Humans are the only creature that will hurt you because he wants more or he is looking for his own self benefit. Hence current society.

 

[Crowbot]

A neighbor where I grew up used to shoot cats in the neighborhood. He took that to shooting my sister, and others. Yeah, the road from animal abuse to being someone who causes pain in other humans is short, and well traveled.

He shot your sister?

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I think greed is a characteristics of the human being. All other life forms attack for survival or in defense. Humans are the only creature that will hurt you because he wants more or he is looking for his own self benefit. Hence current society.

There are actually other animals that will attack for 'sport'. Ironically, adolescent elephants, orphaned by poachers, will develop into 'wilding' elephants that form gangs and cause mass destruction as they vent their anger and lack of focus onto everything around them. Cruelty is not limited to humans, but the belief that humans *should* know better is the driving force behind the revulsion to the actions of so many humans through time. Otters are known for jaw dropping cruelty, and they lost that cuddly feeling I had when seeing them frolicking in the wild. I mean, WOW...

But humans *should* know better. It's like they get off on it, or, worse, feel that their victims 'deserve it'. The Milgram experiments should chill anyone's blood. What they showed was shocking...

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

He shot your sister?

Yes, with a pellet gun. The family was a local bully. They ended up, out of fear of being prosecuted, destroying our yard. They dug up trees, pulled up clothesline posts, tore down a retaining wall. All in one evening. Eventually the neighborhood got tired of them, and they were charged with a variety of crimes, and they were 'the best neighbors ever'. Like most (intelligent) bullies are when confronted. I have thought of scanning the prison websites to see if their son is in for life, yet. The anger, the viciousness, the wasted effort lashing out at other people. Toxic wasn't close...

One incident was striking. The son provoked a fight on a school bus, and was knocked out by a particularly large football player. In true 'you had it coming', his parents tried to sue, and on a full school bus, 'no one saw a thing'. The father was so angry, he became a bus driver on that route to keep an eye on those tormenting his son. I'm not joking.

Mean people suck... Humanity is capable of so much good, and so much evil...

 

[Crowbot]

Yes, with a pellet gun. The family was a local bully. They ended up, out of fear of being prosecuted, destroying our yard. They dug up trees, pulled up clothesline posts, tore down a retaining wall. All in one evening. Eventually the neighborhood got tired of them, and they were charged with a variety of crimes, and they were 'the best neighbors ever'. Like most (intelligent) bullies are when confronted. I have thought of scanning the prison websites to see if their son is in for life, yet. The anger, the viciousness, the wasted effort lashing out at other people. Toxic wasn't close...

One incident was striking. The son provoked a fight on a school bus, and was knocked out by a particularly large football player. In true 'you had it coming', his parents tried to sue, and on a full school bus, 'no one saw a thing'. The father was so angry, he became a bus driver on that route to keep an eye on those tormenting his son. I'm not joking.

Mean people suck... Humanity is capable of so much good, and so much evil...

Wow. Sounds like a family of sociopaths I know.

I'm in NYC and the worst I've ever had was an upstairs neighbor who wore army boots.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Wow. Sounds like a family of sociopaths I know.

I'm in NYC and the worst I've ever had was an upstairs neighbor who wore army boots.

I stayed at a five star hotel once, and got the 'wake up call'. There was an office just upstairs, no carpet. At 5:30, ON THE DOT, a female with spiked heels would start doing laps (I swear) around the room. *CLIKKITY-CLIKKITY* Over and over again, pretty much all day. It must have been a business office, or concierge. But what did I need sleep for anyway...

 

[Crowbot]

I stayed at a five star hotel once, and got the 'wake up call'. There was an office just upstairs, no carpet. At 5:30, ON THE DOT, a female with spiked heels would start doing laps (I swear) around the room. *CLIKKITY-CLIKKITY* Over and over again, pretty much all day. It must have been a business office, or concierge. But what did I need sleep for anyway...

Sleep in the tub.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

Sleep in the tub.

The room didn't have a tub, which was odd, but not all that unusual. The hotel was, overall, a great stay. Except for the race track on the floor above. *shrug* And so it goes...

 

[Crowbot]

The room didn't have a tub, which was odd, but not all that unusual. The hotel was, overall, a great stay. Except for the race track on the floor above. *shrug* And so it goes...

I live in a studio apartment so there's no getting away from loud neighbors.

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

I live in a studio apartment so there's no getting away from loud neighbors.

And that is where noisy neighbors is very subjective. If they played music I liked, and stopped at, say 22:30, and started it back up around 9:00, I'd be pretty happy. Ahh, but if they played polkas all day (for more than 15 minutes) I'd be looking online for a small thermonuclear device to end the madness...

I worked with a woman who liked (LOVED!!!) country music. It about drove me nuts. She loved the 'old country', so we had a 'meeting', and she agreed to limit her music to 'country pop'. It was still disturbing, but I could live with it. The old country was sucking my will to live. OMG!!! MAKE IT STOP!!!

EDIT: Oh, a draw the line at rap, and wild sex sounds. Animal noises during sex is just not part of a civilized society. It's just sick...

In college, I lived in a great apartment complex. Literally a mile and a half from campus, but was quiet and everyone was grad students or 'quiet' undergrads.

UNTIL...

The animals moved in the apartment above me.

Friday (Saturday, and even most Sunday) nights they would have massive parties. Like 50 people in a 2 bedroom apartment. And the music would be blaring, and one song they loved involved jumping up and down during the song. My ceiling would move over 6 inches! I fully thought they would end up in my lap some night. I couldn't use the living room, just in case. And during break it got worse! One night, the party was so large, they were partying on the lawn at the base of the stairs too! And the music went on until 6:00. The trash was epic too. One particular night, they were in rare form, the ceiling was flexing, and the music was loud enough in my apartment, I couldn't stand it. I went to the utility room, and cut the seal on their power meter, and yanked it, and ran... It didn't last long though... At the same time, all the neighbors were working to get their lease terminated. It took the management company over 4 months of that bedlam to get them out, and we left a month later as our lease was up too. What an experience. A couple of months later, one unit burned to the ground, and the pool had a massive water leak. We got out just in time it would seem. But wow noisy neighbors, and ineffective management.