Optimus in Bootcamp?

[thirdykal]

To anyone who has a new 15" or 17" MBP:

Now the MBPs have both the Intel integrated and the NVIDIA discrete GPU's, and Optimus is a software solution, is the Optimus tech able to be enabled in Windows 7 under bootcamp? Sometimes people like me just need to boot into Windows for a few programs, will it drain my battery, or will there be automatic graphics switching? Or will it be like last-gen, where only the dedicated chip is enabled?

 

[PoianaNana]

I've heard that the solution implemented in the new MBP 15" & 17" is similar to Optimus but developed by Apple itself...

I don't know if it is an Apple strategy to bypass Intel complaining about NVidia, but if it is really not the same architecture I doubt Optimus drivers will work in Windows...

Just my two cents,
P.

 

[kayloh20]

It's not Optimus. It's specific to Apple, so just like the previous unibodies, it doesn't work in Boot Camp.

The main difference is that Optimus triggers the dedicated graphics card alongside the integrated one when the graphic intensive applications come up. Apple deactivates the integrated when using the dedicated in order to save battery.

Another difference is that Optimus uses a list of applications which the user can edit which trigger the switch. Apple's is all done based on Mac OS X's determination of what is graphic intensive.

It's kind of annoying if Apple left it like it was, cause sometimes when I am on the go, I don't mind toning down the graphics in a game or in Motion. Hopefully Apple will have something like the older unibodies.

 

[thadoggfather]

Does Boot Camp run the discrete graphics card or integrated intel?

On my last one that was 9400m and 9600M GT, I didnt have the choice, defaulted to discrete and got really hot and battery life comparitively sucked!

 

[kolax]

The main difference is that Optimus triggers the dedicated graphics card alongside the integrated one when the graphic intensive applications come up. Apple deactivates the integrated when using the dedicated in order to save battery.

No they don't. The integrated one has to stay on because that is what provides the images to the screen.

 

[thirdykal]

Yea, I understand that on the OSX side, the automatic graphics switching is not Optimus, it is a compeltely different system. However, it is my understanding that Optimus isn't a hardware enabled system, rather it is just a software solution that switches on or off the discrete system as it is needed. In that case, in Windows under Bootcamp, wouldn't we be able to just download the Optimus drivers, and have it enabled while in Windows? After all, now the hardware is identical (integrated intel and nvidia 330m) to other Optimus enabled systems.

 

[Stetrain]

No they don't. The integrated one has to stay on because that is what provides the images to the screen.

From iFixit and AppleInsider:

"Apple is using Intel's HM55 Express Chipset. Apple has clearly tweaked Intel's chipset to enable the seamless switching between the Intel and NVIDIA graphics. Interestingly enough, the chipset hub (BD82HM55) is not connected to the heat sink. Enough heat is convected from the surface of the silicon to remove the small amount of heat generated. Another advantage of this Intel chipset over Optimus is that the integrated graphics are powered down when the discrete GPU is active."

 

[amarcus]

Unfortunately only the discrete 330m GT is made available in bootcamp. Judging by the last generation of unibody I imagine the intel integrated gpu may be switched off by the EFI and therefore there is little hope for ever getting optimus-style drivers in windows.

Apple prove me wrong!

Adam

 

[thirdykal]

Unfortunately only the discrete 330m GT is made available in bootcamp. Judging by the last generation of unibody I imagine the intel integrated gpu may be switched off by the EFI and therefore there is little hope for ever getting optimus-style drivers in windows.

Apple prove me wrong!

Adam

Ah, so our hopes for using the integrated graphics in Windows rely on Apple actually updating Bootcamp... uh oh. Or they're saving it for the next update that they can tout as a "groundbreaking feature". Oh well that sucks, but at least it still works under OSX, thanks for the responses.

 

[Freyqq]

honestly, they made the right move not to try to make a switchable driver for bootcamp.

1. apple drivers in windows usually suck and are rarely updated, so i'm glad they didn't try
2. optimus drivers are rarely updated too, so a lot of people with issues complain about the lack of support as they can't use the regular drivers off the nvidia site
3. b\c only the 330M is on, you can use the regular, often updated nvidia drivers

 

[Tex-Twil]

No they don't. The integrated one has to stay on because that is what provides the images to the screen.

The integrated is being shut down when the discrete is switched on as pointed by several reviews. I think this is THE difference between Optimus. Since Apple pay a lot attention to battery life, I'd say that's why they decided to implement their own solution.

This does not work in Bootcamp though.

 

[Mackan]

honestly, they made the right move not to try to make a switchable driver for bootcamp.

1. apple drivers in windows usually suck and are rarely updated, so i'm glad they didn't try
2. optimus drivers are rarely updated too, so a lot of people with issues complain about the lack of support as they can't use the regular drivers off the nvidia site
3. b\c only the 330M is on, you can use the regular, often updated nvidia drivers

There is no need for a switchable driver... Apple could just enable the option to chose which videocard should be active in the Boot Camp preferences. A reboot would be needed to switch videocard, but you could use the normal Intel and Nvidia drivers, independent of Apple.

But of course Apple doesn't want to give you that option. If you run Windows, you should be punished, by a warm notebook and short battery life.

I think this is a pretty big deal, and Apple is being an ass about it.

 

[kolax]

The integrated is being shut down when the discrete is switched on as pointed by several reviews. I think this is THE difference between Optimus. Since Apple pay a lot attention to battery life, I'd say that's why they decided to implement their own solution.

This does not work in Bootcamp though.

They can't shut the integrated chip off completely though can they? I thought the integrated chip was still responsible for getting the image onto the screen.. the discrete just did all the hard work.

 

[gadgetfreaky]

Wow--that seems kind of like a waste. No wonder the mbp is burning a hole in my lap. Does steve jobs want me to not have kids????

they gotta do some kind of switching in BC. Optima or Apples solution. but something...sheesh.

 

[Tex-Twil]

They can't shut the integrated chip off completely though can they? I thought the integrated chip was still responsible for getting the image onto the screen.. the discrete just did all the hard work.

Apple's solution actually switches fully between the cards seamlessly, with the Intel graphics on only in a power sipping mode but not in use at all for rendering when the NVIDIA GPU is in play.

source

 

[kolax]

That's what I said.. the integrated card is used just to get the image onto the screen where as the discrete card does all the hard work.

The integrated card isn't off completely. You implied it was "shut off" but it isn't. Engadget says it is on "power sipping mode" so only drawing enough to just put the image onto the screen.

Agreed?

 

[elfxmilhouse]

To anyone who has a new 15" or 17" MBP:

Now the MBPs have both the Intel integrated and the NVIDIA discrete GPU's, and Optimus is a software solution, is the Optimus tech able to be enabled in Windows 7 under bootcamp? Sometimes people like me just need to boot into Windows for a few programs, will it drain my battery, or will there be automatic graphics switching? Or will it be like last-gen, where only the dedicated chip is enabled?

the macbook pros do not have optimus.

Yea, I understand that on the OSX side, the automatic graphics switching is not Optimus, it is a compeltely different system. However, it is my understanding that Optimus isn't a hardware enabled system, rather it is just a software solution that switches on or off the discrete system as it is needed. In that case, in Windows under Bootcamp, wouldn't we be able to just download the Optimus drivers, and have it enabled while in Windows? After all, now the hardware is identical (integrated intel and nvidia 330m) to other Optimus enabled systems.

if what you say about optimus is true then you still need the applications to be registered with nvidia to be compatible with optimus.

the reason why the apple switching solution doesnt work in windows is that the switching is taken care of by OS X. the OS determines what type of graphics processing the application needs and will switch to the appropriate card. with optimus, each application needs to be registered with nvidia. then using that profile the optimus software/hardware will switch accordingly.

 

[Tex-Twil]

That's what I said.. the integrated card is used just to get the image onto the screen where as the discrete card does all the hard work.

The integrated card isn't off completely. You implied it was "shut off" but it isn't. Engadget says it is on "power sipping mode" so only drawing enough to just put the image onto the screen.

Agreed?

oh yes, I totally misread the article. u r right

 

[JPP1]

Loosing Strategy for Apple

There is no need for a switchable driver... Apple could just enable the option to chose which videocard should be active in the Boot Camp preferences. A reboot would be needed to switch videocard, but you could use the normal Intel and Nvidia drivers, independent of Apple.

But of course Apple doesn't want to give you that option. If you run Windows, you should be punished, by a warm notebook and short battery life.

I think this is a pretty big deal, and Apple is being an ass about it.

Well, I have waited for months to buy my high-end laptop and since I have Photoshop only for Windows and Apple is being stubbornly anti-windows about enabling optimus for bootcamp, I will buy my Sony Vaio Z-Series today instead of the Macbook Pro, even though I already own 3 iMacs. I think many customers will turn Apple down just like myself, with this attitude they have chosen to follow. In the end you can only punish wrong behavior with your dollars.

 

[dusk007]

You can install custom and new nvda drivers. Why can't you just install some intel IGP drivers. I also guess there is some hardware level block so you cannot access the integrated intel.

But the thread poster is right in theory Optimus should work if you can install the Intel dirvers in the first place. In Win7 you can have two drivers installed anyway so swtiching should work in Win7 too without logging out. All that is needed is that the OS can find the Intel IGP somehow.
All that is need for Optimus would be a 330M reachable over PCIe, the integrated GPU connected to a display and well the drivers. All the hardware is there unless they went extra length to block it from working on hardware level there is really no reason why it shouldn't.