Our education system is going down the drain...

[lionheartednyhc]

Ok, I need to rant and let this out...

So I have my BA in psych but want to try something new so I enrolled in some CS courses at the local Community College to learn programming.One of the courses I enrolled in had a vague description and was titled CS 101: Information Systems. Sure, why not Ill give it a shot.

Holy ****.

basically, its computers for dummies. Aka such gems as "the internet is for sharing files and information with others!" Ok, great. Not for me, but still a worthwhile class since not everyone uses computers. The problem?

The teacher is a dinosaur. Hes so old, he has a TA that assists him with basic **** such as attendance because he can't handle it. And Im pretty sure he hasn't changed a thing in the course in 20 years. Wan't to know what I need to buy, along with my books? One FLOPPY DISK to backup my homework. We brushed upon e-books but he could not comment on what he thought, because he is still waiting for them to come out of development and be sold to the general public. Oh, and he saw some dateline thing on AI a few years back and is now convinced by 2015 computers will be completeley self sufficient and be smarter than us, therefore making terminator a reality.

The worst part is, the other people in this class are clueless in regards to computers and don't know better. How the hell are we preparing kids for the future??

Oh, and its also impossible to not fail. Lets say you get 75/100 points on your test. That sucks, you got a C. But wait. He will let you take it back, and correct your errors and get 3/4 of your points back.

*sigh*

Anyone else had any horrid experiences like this?

 

[Surely]

If you don't get an A:

But yeah, there are a lot of bad teachers and dumb people out there. Take advantage of them. /jk

 

[Zombie Acorn]

Ok, I need to rant and let this out...

So I have my BA in psych but want to try something new so I enrolled in some CS courses at the local Community College to learn programming.One of the courses I enrolled in had a vague description and was titled CS 101: Information Systems. Sure, why not Ill give it a shot.

I highlighted a possible problem. You need to do your research before enrolling into community colleges.

 

[lionheartednyhc]

I highlighted a possible problem. You need to do your research before enrolling into community colleges.

Eh. Its like 20 bucks for a course. I figured what the heck. At least getting straight A's wont be a problem

 

[Surely]

Eh. Its like 20 bucks for a course. I figured what the heck. At least getting straight A's wont be a problem

Meh- you get what you pay for.

 

[rhsgolfer33]

There are definitely good courses at community colleges, however, anything ending in "101" probably isn't going to be particularly challenging or interesting.

 

[63dot]

Community college can be almost anything

It all depends on what skill set you have. Most stuff I took in community college was not much harder than high school. Some of it was downright easy.

But then I hit a mixed bag in the Mathematics and Technology department. I breezed in a classes that talked about sectors, gateways, layers, circuits, IEEE standards, and being forced to build a PC in the dark. Some people couldn't deal with that class and the 1,500 page textbook. But I sucked at a one semester crash course in Java and found that to be ridiculously hard even though the text was thin and the homework was very little.

And both these courses were listed as just past the beginner courses at the community college which were intro to C++, college algebra, and Microsoft Office. The advanced courses in the department were advanced router concepts, Cisco IOS programming, and C++ game programming and few ever reached those outside of computer science majors.

....

My study partner back in law school found law school to be a decent challenge, but a breeze compared to taking two years at the community college in Asian Languages (Chinese Cantonese, Chinese Mandarin, and Japanese) as a prerequisite for a Master's in International Law and Policy (of Asia) where all classes are taught in the Asian languages and not in English even though the campus is here in California.

....

And where I can't program my way out of a paper bag, there are plenty of Asian students who are great at the math and programming classes at the community college (where some of them hold BS degrees in their country from good universities) but struggle terribly with the four semester course of English as a second language I, II, III, and IV. I hear the complaints about where the first class teaches you the alphabet, simple sentences, and basic conversation to the fourth class which gets them reading at the 12th grade high school level and being able to speak without an accent as to almost pass as an American born person of Asian descent. While this is "just" junior college, some of these math and science geniuses never get past the second semester.

 

[Zombie Acorn]

Just for the record I wasn't saying community colleges were all bad, I was just saying you have to do your research moreso then a regular university who can afford more resources for each department.

btw CIS 100-102 is usually the beginner course that all students (regardless of major) are required to take (at least thats how it was at both of my colleges)

 

[steve2112]

So, was this a for-credit class, or one of those adult/continuing education classes? The $20 price makes me think it's the latter. If so, this doesn't surprise me at all. Those type of classes are usually aimed at older people who have never or rarely used a computer at all. Also, the curriculum for these courses is usually designed by some government run group or committee and may actually be 10 years old. That's a problem with tech courses. The curriculum can't change fast enough to keep up.

Back in 2001, I already had a bachelor's degree in history, but I wanted something more tech oriented. I wanted to turn my hobby into a profession, so I enrolled at a community college in a networking program. From day one, we were doing hands on stuff, and I loved it. It was also part of the Cisco Academy, which was a challenge. One of the problems was the non-Cisco classes. The server admin class, for example, was still using NT Server because the state hadn't updated the curriculum to teach Server 2000. They had to teach Windows NT. One of my instructors eventually got so fed up with this kind of red tape that he quit and went back to work in the industry.

 

[yg17]

Community colleges are meh. I went to a 4 year university, but switched majors from Comp Sci to Information Systems my second year (ironically, I am now duing programming, comp sci work in a full time career). There were some mismatches among required courses for CS and IS for graduation so if I wanted to still graduate after 4 years, I had to meet those new requirements.

It basically came down to me needing to take a general science course to meet the requirements and graduate in 4 years. My choices were chemistry, physics or astronomy. I already had taken biology and needed one more science course. I didn't want to take chem or phys because I didn't do well with those in high school, knew college level would only be harder and didn't want a poor grade in either of those dragging down my GPA. So I opted for astronomy, how hard could it be? But, it would not fit in my regular semester schedule. My option was to stay another semester, or take it at the community college back home during the summer and transfer it in. I opted for summer at the comm college.

It had to have been the easiest class I've ever taken. Like you said about yours, it was impossible to fail. We had weekly quizzes, but we could correct our mistakes and get half credit for them. But the sad thing is, I was one of two students who found it easy, the other was another guy who was attending a 4 year university and was in the same boat I was in, trying to meet requirements. Everyone else in the class were regular comm. college students, and they found everything difficult, and couldn't believe that me and the other uni guy were getting As with hardly any effort. The others just had no understanding of the material at all, I don't know if they weren't trying (unlikely as I wasn't trying either, it was that easy) or if they were just dumb. I'm guessing the latter because astronomy 101 isn't that hard.

The teachers have to teach to the lowest common denominator. In a 4 year uni where there are admissions standards, even the worst students will still be pretty good. A comm. college will take just about anyone with a high school diploma or GED so the worst students are pretty bad and the good ones suffer.

Community college is great for those who didn't do too well in high school to boost their GPA to get into a 4 year school. But if I'm a hiring manager and I have two resumes, one from comm. college and one from a university, even if all other things are equal, work experience, GPA, degree, etc, I'm choosing the guy from the university.

 

[ucfgrad93]

Oh, and its also impossible to not fail.

If you know you're going to fail, why bother?

It is a 101 class after all, just take the easy A and move on.

 

[yg17]

If you know you're going to fail, why bother?

It is a 101 class after all, just take the easy A and move on.

The problem with that is he probably has to take the 101 class to move on to the next one, but why should he have to waste his time and money taking a 101 class with a curriculum dating back to 1995?

 

[iShater]

The problem with that is he probably has to take the 101 class to move on to the next one, but why should he have to waste his time and money taking a 101 class with a curriculum dating back to 1995?

You can test/place out of intro classes. Even programming ones.

And OP, your title is misleading. This has nothing to do with the education system, but with a bad instructor in an intro class that seems targeted at people who never touched a computer.

 

[yg17]

You can test/place out of intro classes. Even programming ones.

If they offer that option, I don't know if they do.

 

[rdowns]

And OP, your title is misleading. This has nothing to do with the education system, but with a bad instructor in an intro class that seems targeted at people who never touched a computer.

This has everything to do with the educational system. Apparently, the OP wasn't served well by it.

 

[ucfgrad93]

And OP, your title is misleading. This has nothing to do with the education system, but with a bad instructor in an intro class that seems targeted at people who never touched a computer.

Agreed. While the US education system is hardly perfect, I wouldn't condemn it based on this one class at a community college.

 

[chstr]

this is more of a problem with higher ed than our education system, I would say. There are far too many professors that don't know when to retire and actually use the younger, freshly minted phd's ideas for their own personal gain. It's similar to washington. Becoming a professor nowadays is more a question of whom you're willing to screw, figuratively and literally.

 

[iShater]

If they offer that option, I don't know if they do.

It is CS 101, I guarantee every school does.

Or I'll take my post back.

this is more of a problem with higher ed than our education system, I would say.

Intro to Computers at a community college doesn't really count as higher ed does it?

Most subjects don't need newly minted phDs to keep them up to date.

 

[chstr]

Community colleges are meh. I went to a 4 year university, but switched majors from Comp Sci to Information Systems my second year (ironically, I am now duing programming, comp sci work in a full time career). There were some mismatches among required courses for CS and IS for graduation so if I wanted to still graduate after 4 years, I had to meet those new requirements.

It basically came down to me needing to take a general science course to meet the requirements and graduate in 4 years. My choices were chemistry, physics or astronomy. I already had taken biology and needed one more science course. I didn't want to take chem or phys because I didn't do well with those in high school, knew college level would only be harder and didn't want a poor grade in either of those dragging down my GPA. So I opted for astronomy, how hard could it be? But, it would not fit in my regular semester schedule. My option was to stay another semester, or take it at the community college back home during the summer and transfer it in. I opted for summer at the comm college.

It had to have been the easiest class I've ever taken. Like you said about yours, it was impossible to fail. We had weekly quizzes, but we could correct our mistakes and get half credit for them. But the sad thing is, I was one of two students who found it easy, the other was another guy who was attending a 4 year university and was in the same boat I was in, trying to meet requirements. Everyone else in the class were regular comm. college students, and they found everything difficult, and couldn't believe that me and the other uni guy were getting As with hardly any effort. The others just had no understanding of the material at all, I don't know if they weren't trying (unlikely as I wasn't trying either, it was that easy) or if they were just dumb. I'm guessing the latter because astronomy 101 isn't that hard.

The teachers have to teach to the lowest common denominator. In a 4 year uni where there are admissions standards, even the worst students will still be pretty good. A comm. college will take just about anyone with a high school diploma or GED so the worst students are pretty bad and the good ones suffer.

Community college is great for those who didn't do too well in high school to boost their GPA to get into a 4 year school. But if I'm a hiring manager and I have two resumes, one from comm. college and one from a university, even if all other things are equal, work experience, GPA, degree, etc, I'm choosing the guy from the university.

Your post is flawed, but mainly because you haven't experienced enough different institutions. I've taken amazing cc classes and some that are meh. I've also taken meh courses at an Ivy League school for grad work and taught Ivy League undergrads who are complete nimrods that made me want to go hmmmm...

 

[chstr]

It is CS 101, I guarantee every school does.

Or I'll take my post back.


Intro to Computers at a community college doesn't really count as higher ed does it?

Most subjects don't need newly minted phDs to keep them up to date.

absolutely, but a PhD is now pretty much a minimum requirement for a tenure track position nowadays

 

[iShater]

Your post is flawed, but mainly because you haven't experienced enough different institutions. I've taken amazing cc classes and some that are meh. I've also taken meh courses at an Ivy League school for grad work and taught Ivy League undergrads who are complete nimrods that made me want to go hmmmm...

I had very similar experiences, it is a hit or miss with CC and big schools alike these days.

absolutely, but a PhD is now pretty much a minimum requirement for a tenure track position nowadays

I thought it was always a requirement for any 4 year+ school, no?

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Your post is flawed, but mainly because you haven't experienced enough different institutions. I've taken amazing cc classes and some that are meh. I've also taken meh courses at an Ivy League school for grad work and taught Ivy League undergrads who are complete nimrods that made me want to go hmmmm...

Very true. I agree with you there. I have been in community college classes that truly kick my ass and at the same time took classes at a 4 year intuitions that I slept threw and got an A in.

One big difference I find between the 4 years and the community college level is the teachers at the community college level seem to take more interested in the students because they are teachers and only teachers. At the university level the professors have other things like research to deal with and a much larger class size.

CC are a hit and miss some times. Hell even 4 years are a hit and a miss just the big names one people know about. The trick to CC is find the one that carters to what you want. The more unveristy feel CC are the transfer ones. Those are the ones were it is mostly students getting the cores out first at a cheaper prices then transferring to a 4 year. They are going to teach more like a university since they are prepping their students for a 4 year. The ones that are more prepping people for the work force are very different in how things are run an taught. Those have to adress the fact that most of thier students have been out of education for a while so a lot of the basic skills are rusty.

The transfer ones have people coming home for the summer or fresh out of HS so the basic skills are not rusty.

 

[rhsgolfer33]

I thought it was always a requirement for any 4 year+ school, no?

In some subjects, such as accounting, you can professionally qualify. In accounting it usually means you have a CPA license and a master's degree or a law degree. The likely major reason it is allowed in accounting is a severe shortage of PhD graduates.

 

[iOrlando]

i know plenty of kids under 12 that know a ton about computers, probably more than me. so i wouldn't read too much out of your situation.

 

[Zombie Acorn]

So I opted for astronomy, how hard could it be? But, it would not fit in my regular semester schedule. My option was to stay another semester, or take it at the community college back home during the summer and transfer it in. I opted for summer at the comm college.

The assumption that Astronomy would be an easy course could have been a fatal mistake. I had a friend who took it back a few years ago thinking it would be an easy A. Apparently the professor had a phd in astrophysics and didn't agree with that. My friend got a D.