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SPJones

macrumors member
Original poster
Sep 3, 2022
77
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On a Catalina-running iMac I am unable to open a Pages file created on Ventura.

Obviously I don't have the latest version of Pages, but I've no problem opening and editing new Pages files.

When opening the file I receive a prompt to update Pages (which of course leads me down a dead-end as I cannot update to the latest version of Pages!).

Any help would be much appreciated (other than OCLP/buy a more modern Mac!), cheers.
 
Part of Apple's game is to make updates of core software like its version of office "motivate" either os updates or new hardware purchases. One of the ways to "force" a new purchase is this one. Best I can tell there is NOTHING in new versions of Pages that requires new hardware and/or even os updates. But by making it so you have to "keep up," you are pressed to update or buy new.

Feature updates to Pages is often a few nice touches. I think the main driver of such updates is this "planned obsolescence" approach. Those who try to squeeze a few more years out of an aging Mac will quickly crash into the inability to open files like these. That Mac may be plenty powerful enough to edit word processing or simple page layout Pages files but is simply locked out of such files by (Apple) choice.

The suggestion offered in Post #2 is the only real option and it is precarious if you make a document "beautiful." Keep it very simple and #2 works. But as the document gets visually complicated with lots of design, odds in exporting intact to Word and then back into an older version of Pages goes way down. But at least it's something.

The only complete remedy is either keep up with "latest & greatest" OS version or use something other than Pages that isn't so quick to "break" file compatibility on older hardware no longer getting OS version updates. The hack workaround is to use third party tools to force new OS upgrades on hardware that won't naturally upgrade. As long as macOS is new, this kind of thing should work. Hacks can introduce other issues but they generally show that deprecated hardware can still easily run new macOS versions... Apple just chooses to leave hardware behind even when it is capable of handling any of the new stuff they introduce.
 
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Part of Apple's game is to make updates of core software like its version of office "motivate" either os updates or new hardware purchases. One of the ways to "force" a new purchase is this one. Best I can tell there is NOTHING in new versions of Pages that requires new hardware and/or even os updates. But by making it so you have to "keep up," you are pressed to update or buy new.

Feature updates to Pages is often a few nice touches. I think the main driver of such updates is this "planned obsolescence" approach. Those who try to squeeze a few more years out of an aging Mac will quickly crash into the inability to open files like these. That Mac may be plenty powerful enough to edit word processing or simple page layout Pages files but is simply locked out of such files by (Apple) choice.

The suggestion offered in Post #2 is the only real option and it is precarious if you make a document "beautiful." Keep it very simple and #2 works. But as the document gets visually complicated with lots of design, odds in exporting intact to Word and then back into an older version of Pages goes way down. But at least it's something.

The only complete remedy is either keep up with "latest & greatest" OS version or use something other than Pages that isn't so quick to "break" file compatibility on older hardware no longer getting OS version updates. The hack workaround is to use third party tools to force new OS upgrades on hardware that won't naturally upgrade. As long as macOS is new, this kind of thing should work. Hacks can introduce other issues but they generally show that deprecated hardware can still easily run new macOS versions... Apple just chooses to leave hardware behind even when it is capable of handling any of the new stuff they introduce.
Thanks HSD.

I share your frustration. I had OCLP running Ventura on my late 2013 iMac, but there were just one too many unexpected application closures for my liking. Otherwise it ran perfectly smoothly.

I've only been using MacOS for a few years and love the convenience of synching everything with my 'ancient' iPhone 8 and iPad. However, I'm tempted to head back to Linux as, to borrow Apple's old mantra, it just works (or at the very least, the OS provider doesn't go out of their way to make it not do so). Perhaps a dual boot is the way to go.

I could quite easily go out tomorrow and drop £1000+ on a new MacBook or iMac, but I don't see why when this one works just fine. I've no issue with Apple wishing to ensure a 'premium' experience for its users, but this is 2023 - some self-awareness about reducing tech waste that isn't forced on them by regulators like the EU would be welcome.
 
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I agree this is annoying. I can imagine a new feature not appearing when you open in Catalina, but for the file to not open at all is not acceptable. It’s the same software and imagining it’s just typed text, there’s really no good reason for it to not open
 
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I agree this is annoying. I can imagine a new feature not appearing when you open in Catalina, but for the file to not open at all is not acceptable. It’s the same software and imagining it’s just typed text, there’s really no good reason for it to not open
Agreed.

The workaround Bogdan posted earlier is do-able, especially when it is just a very small number of (as you say, simple text files) files. But it's frustrating as hell.
 
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A similar problem exists with Office/Word for Windows. An older version of Office cannot open docx files. There are easier fixes for resolving the problem in Windows including forcing the install of a newer version of Word on an incompatible version of Windows using the Office Deployment tool.

Apple cycles through different OS versions more quickly than Microsoft and so incompatibility with proprietary document formats arises more frequently. This is not necessarily an intentional lockout. It is rather because new features in Pages and Keynote rely upon OS and software frameworks that are present in the new OS but absent in the older OS. Pages and Keynote evolve more quickly in terms of OS dependent features than Word or PowerPoint. Windows frameworks are more stable between different Windows versions (since Windows 7).

The best thing to do is to ensure that Pages and Keynote documents are saved in a compatibility format: Pages '09, RTF or even Word. The problem is that Apple doesn't provide a Pages compatibility "save as" mode for earlier versions of Pages (older than Pages '09). Microsoft does this for Word and provides a huge (too large) list of Microsoft and other "save as" formats.

But there are also workarounds for this problem with Mac:

1) use a virtual machine to run Ventura on the Catalinia Mac: Virtual Box will do this for free and Parallels and VMWare Fusion for a fee - the free version of VMWare Fusion requires a higher version of macOS than Catalina to work; you can then use the up to date version of Pages on the old Mac. The negative here is that it shouldn't be necessary to use a virtual machine just for Pages and Keynote version file compatibility. The positives are that the process is free (if using Virtual Box), almost seamless in terms of workflow and it also doesn't require files to leave your Mac.

2) use the Catalina version of Pages on the Ventura Mac: copying the app file from the Catalina Mac to the Ventura Mac will work (I have done it previously with older versions of macOS)

3) acknowledge that Pages and especially Keynote can produce beautiful results but that they also provide very limited file export support and also rely very heavily for their fast evolution on framework changes in different versions of macOS. For anything that requires sharing files with other people, I use Word and PowerPoint or PDF printing from Pages

4) Use OCLP with Ventura 13.2 (*not* 13.3 - do not use Ventura 13.3 and OCLP with a 2012 or 2013 iMac at present). Also disable or set to "partial" "Feature Unlock" in "misc" settings of OCLP to help prevent application quits when copying/pasting text (although this should be okay with 2012 and 2013 iMac).

I am running OCLP on a late 2012 iMac with zero problems using Ventura 13.2. I am running OCLP on a 2015 MBP with Ventura 13.3 with hardly any problems (WiFi is slow to reconnect after waking from sleep) but with Ventura 13.3 I am one of the lucky ones.

OCLP has matured in the past six months although the current version of OCLP and the most recent version of Ventura (as of April 2023) are causing very big problems for many older Macs - including but not only the 2012 and 2013 iMacs and MacBooks that ran the previous version of Ventura without problem.

You don't need a dual boot if you use a virtual machine although you may prefer the performance benefits of dual boot compared to virtual machine. You certainly don't need to buy a new computer.
 
OP:

I haven't read through every reply, perhaps this has already been suggested.

When you need to move a Pages file from your Ventura Mac to the Catalina one, do this:
a. Open the document on the Ventura Mac
b. Choose File--> Export To--> Pages '09...
c. In the dialog, make sure "Pages '09" is selected, then click Next
d. Give it a name, location, and click Export.

You should now be able to open the exported file using the Catalina version of Pages.

YES.
I realize this is a somewhat clunky "workaround".
But... IT WORKS.
 
On a Catalina-running iMac I am unable to open a Pages file created on Ventura.

Obviously I don't have the latest version of Pages, but I've no problem opening and editing new Pages files.

When opening the file I receive a prompt to update Pages (which of course leads me down a dead-end as I cannot update to the latest version of Pages!).

Any help would be much appreciated (other than OCLP/buy a more modern Mac!), cheers.
I’m having a similar problem. I used to be able to edit the same Pages document on my iPhone and iPads (up to date versions of Pages) and my Mac (old Pages version 7.1). But on trying today, I can’t open documents edited on the iPad on the Mac.

I’ve previously had the issue with an even older version of Pages (5.6.2) on another Mac and realised that there is a plist on my Mac which gives Mac collaboration information. There are two minimums: one is Pages 6.3 and the other the latest version). So I think we should be able to collaborate with version as old as 6.3. Not sure why I can‘t.

Update: Actually I can open some Pages documents on my Mac (Pages 7.1) which were recently edited in the latest version of Pages on an iPad.
 
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