Are you kidding me????????? I bought a $2500 Powermac only to find out now that i can't upgrade my video card because there aren't any? WTF?????? Why in the hell I switched to Apple I will never know. THere ight have been issues with Windows from time to time, but AT LEAST I had hardware options and could upgrade when needed. This is so damn unbeleivable.
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PCIe options???????
- Thread starter texjw
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I have to admit...it is rather absurd.
A new, OEM video card for the Mac is non-existant pretty much. In rare cases, people have found new OEM nVidia 7800GT's for the Mac online for $725 - thats $300 more than the Apple upgrade option, and $400 more than the PC version.
I've contacted nVidia about finding their cards for my Mac, and their response was basicly 'it's not our problem.'
But, you're not entitrely out of luck.
Go to the forums at http://www.strangedogs.com and contact rubeytuesday.
She can modify the PC version of the 7800GT (sweet 256mb video card) to work flawlessly with a Mac.
$450 will get you a working card.
A new, OEM video card for the Mac is non-existant pretty much. In rare cases, people have found new OEM nVidia 7800GT's for the Mac online for $725 - thats $300 more than the Apple upgrade option, and $400 more than the PC version.
I've contacted nVidia about finding their cards for my Mac, and their response was basicly 'it's not our problem.'
But, you're not entitrely out of luck.
Go to the forums at http://www.strangedogs.com and contact rubeytuesday.
She can modify the PC version of the 7800GT (sweet 256mb video card) to work flawlessly with a Mac.
$450 will get you a working card.
Great post...
Like Josh said, there are people who will modify PC cards to work on the Mac, or there's the (expensive) eBay route.
If you're so upset, why not return the PM. Or you could sell it, I'm sure there are many people (who research things before they buy them) who'll be willing to buy it.
Like Josh said, there are people who will modify PC cards to work on the Mac, or there's the (expensive) eBay route.
If you're so upset, why not return the PM. Or you could sell it, I'm sure there are many people (who research things before they buy them) who'll be willing to buy it.
texjw said:
Yes, they are 100% confirmed to work identically to the OEM version.
I was curious myself, and contacted a well respected authority on Mac hardware who has personally tested the flashed card, and I was told, while such info cannot be published officially, that it does indeed work flawlessly.
^ was going to send out the check this morning, but might be selling the mac, so I;m undecided at this point.
Well, mostly just because being a broke college student (lol), I like the idea of being able to sell it and build a less expensive PC with better specs.
I paid nearly $2300 for my Mac. I can sell it for around $1700. That will be enough to build a dual-core AMD system, with 2.5gb of ram, 7800GT, and equal specs as my mac (same size HD and dvd burner), plus have money left over to get a 20.1" widescreen LCD (19" CRT I've had for four years could use an upgrade).
It's not that I prefer PC's or anything, I love my Mac and hate the idea of selling it, but it really wasn't the wisest purchase of mine, economically speaking.
Plus the same tools I use for school (gcc, for example) are available on Linux, so other than OS X's look, I'm not losing out on anything software-wise.
I paid nearly $2300 for my Mac. I can sell it for around $1700. That will be enough to build a dual-core AMD system, with 2.5gb of ram, 7800GT, and equal specs as my mac (same size HD and dvd burner), plus have money left over to get a 20.1" widescreen LCD (19" CRT I've had for four years could use an upgrade).
It's not that I prefer PC's or anything, I love my Mac and hate the idea of selling it, but it really wasn't the wisest purchase of mine, economically speaking.
Plus the same tools I use for school (gcc, for example) are available on Linux, so other than OS X's look, I'm not losing out on anything software-wise.
link92 said:
Because Apple isn't providing the upgrade to people who already own the sytems either.
You can buy more ram individually from Apple and plenty of other hardware. Apple is without a doubt the first place people are going to look for an upgrade on their video card for their Mac.
Well, nVidia has never sold retail Mac video cards, and Apple doesn't either for whatever reason (and yes, some product research would have shown that right away). That leaves ATI. They've provided upgrade cards in the past, but there are some problems right now: the move from AGP to PCIe generally, and the move from PPC to x86 in Macs, and the delays with the X1800.
ATI doesn't make Mac retail versions of all their cards, and while they had a demo X1800 running on a Mac, they might have decided to not bother and just go with the X1900 instead (similar to the situation with the 9700/9800 a few years ago). But then you have the situation that only the very latest Power Mac models have PCIe, so is that enough of a market for ATI to bother with?
So, to answer the question: "Was I wrong to assume that Apples HIGH END PROFESSIONAL GRADE computer would not be upgradeable?" Well, yes. It's always wrong to assume anything, about anything. The AGP Power Macs were certainly upgradeable with retail graphics cards, but that was with an established market (PPC and AGP). Now you have a new architecture (PCIe) in a relatively small market to begin with, plus new uncertainty (the move to x86), so it's not really surprising that there aren't any retail PCIe cards now, or possibly ever, at least for PPC Macs.
That doesn't mean it's a good situation, but understanding the realities of the market expains why it is the way it is.
--Eric
ATI doesn't make Mac retail versions of all their cards, and while they had a demo X1800 running on a Mac, they might have decided to not bother and just go with the X1900 instead (similar to the situation with the 9700/9800 a few years ago). But then you have the situation that only the very latest Power Mac models have PCIe, so is that enough of a market for ATI to bother with?
So, to answer the question: "Was I wrong to assume that Apples HIGH END PROFESSIONAL GRADE computer would not be upgradeable?" Well, yes. It's always wrong to assume anything, about anything. The AGP Power Macs were certainly upgradeable with retail graphics cards, but that was with an established market (PPC and AGP). Now you have a new architecture (PCIe) in a relatively small market to begin with, plus new uncertainty (the move to x86), so it's not really surprising that there aren't any retail PCIe cards now, or possibly ever, at least for PPC Macs.
That doesn't mean it's a good situation, but understanding the realities of the market expains why it is the way it is.
--Eric
Eric5h5 said:
You just said a whole of nothing bro.
Look, Apple made and marketed the DC G5's as thier top of the line models. If they sell it, they should at least offer the video upgrades that they offer as BTO for sale at a reasonable cost. Even if it cost them money in the end. They OWE it the customer who bought it. I though that that was supposed to be Apples calling, Customer service? You can't tell me they don't have 7800GT's sitting in a warehouse. They offer it as a $400 upgrade when you BTO, so why not sell it stand alone for that price to existing customers?
Well I'm not gonna say all the time, but a lot of the time when you BTO from Apple it comes directly from the production facility in China and THEY pay the extra cost to air it over to the US in a timely fashion. So NO, they may NOT have extra 7800 GT PCIe graphic cards laying around.
And they won't sell it separately because as someone else already pointed out, NVIDIA doesn't make extra cards for Apple and the cards they may have are most likely reserved for DOA/replacement issues. There's nothing like paying the extra $400 for a video card and its DOA out of the box and then Apple can't get you one for 2 or 3 weeks. Thats worse than your situation IMO.
Why don't you just be happy with what you got. If you bought a PowerMac to game, then you're kinda dumb for doing that. (don't mean to sound like a dick, but its very true) If you don't game then there's really no reason to upgrade the video card.
I have a Dual Core 2.3 GHz PowerMac G5 and the standard video card (NVIDIA GeForce 6600 w/256) I think plays games and performs OS and other app tasks very well.
If you have a little bit of patience, ATI will have PCIe cards available for the Mac soon. PCIe is relatively new to the Mac (as it is for the PC) and with the Intel switch, makes things take a little longer than usual. I don't think that when the original PowerMac G5's arrived with 8x AGP Pro in them, that there were very many if any extra cards to buy off the shelf and now there are a few different choices for 8x AGP PowerMacs.
And they won't sell it separately because as someone else already pointed out, NVIDIA doesn't make extra cards for Apple and the cards they may have are most likely reserved for DOA/replacement issues. There's nothing like paying the extra $400 for a video card and its DOA out of the box and then Apple can't get you one for 2 or 3 weeks. Thats worse than your situation IMO.
Why don't you just be happy with what you got. If you bought a PowerMac to game, then you're kinda dumb for doing that. (don't mean to sound like a dick, but its very true) If you don't game then there's really no reason to upgrade the video card.
I have a Dual Core 2.3 GHz PowerMac G5 and the standard video card (NVIDIA GeForce 6600 w/256) I think plays games and performs OS and other app tasks very well.
If you have a little bit of patience, ATI will have PCIe cards available for the Mac soon. PCIe is relatively new to the Mac (as it is for the PC) and with the Intel switch, makes things take a little longer than usual. I don't think that when the original PowerMac G5's arrived with 8x AGP Pro in them, that there were very many if any extra cards to buy off the shelf and now there are a few different choices for 8x AGP PowerMacs.
texjw said:
I fully agree. It does seem silly that they have these cards, but they won't sell them after-the-fact.
texjw said:
But, sorry, you lost me here. Apple is a business. They don't OWE it to their customers to provide upgrades. Hewlett Packard doesn't offer after-the-fact video card upgrades. (Admittedly, the PC video card sector is full of them, but it's still not the PC manufacturer's job to sell them.) And the most certainly are under no moral obligation to lose money on the deal. (Yes, they sell memory. Do they lose money on it? No way.)
Apple does offer a PCI-Express GeForce 6600, but that's sold mostly as a 'secondary' card, since it's the same basic card that is standard.
As has been pointed out, though, you can buy PC-flashed-to-Mac-compatibility cards through the right sources. And for less than Apple would likely offer it.
Please, though, leave out the personal attacks. People are trying to help, attacking them isn't helping your cause. (And mklos, you're just fueling the fire. Don't attack people just because they're a little angry.)
P.S. You would have gotten better responses if you had posted it as "does anyone know where to get a Mac-compatible PCI Express video card that's better than the default GeForce 6600?" Your original post was purely a rant/complaint, and not very inviting of constructive help.
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=4914
Retail Mac nVidia cards
Don't know which models of Mac they will support yet, but this is great news!
Retail Mac nVidia cards
Don't know which models of Mac they will support yet, but this is great news!
ehurtley said:
I agree, sorry taking personal attacks but I don't take kindly to being called "dumb".
First off Comparing HP to Apple is apples and oranges. They aren't even in the same league. HP computers are a joke.
Second, I know that I can get a flashed version of a card but who is going to support it if it fails? Apple??...lol NOT.
Anyway....I guess I'm SOL and I leanred the hardway. But I can promise you this. I will not buy another Apple computer. I'm not going to get caught up in this if you want new hardware you have to buy a new machine BS. No thanks. That was the main reason in choosing a PM over a iMac. I could add memory, HD's and video. Well 2 out of three is not bad I guess...lol
Peace.....
Dr. No said:http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=4914
Retail Mac nVidia cards
Don't know which models of Mac they will support yet, but this is great news!
Huh???? G4's????
Dr. No said:http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=4914
Retail Mac nVidia cards
Don't know which models of Mac they will support yet, but this is great news!
It specifically says they're for G4s
, and that they are AGP, meaning it doesn't help texjw.Although I'm sure that sooner or later they and/or ATI will release PCI-E Mac cards.
They will????? I keep hearing rumors from ATI about a x1800 but nothing concrete. I would feel so much better if I just something was coming.ehurtley said:It specifically says they're for G4s
Although I'm sure that sooner or later they and/or ATI will release PCI-E Mac cards.
mklos said:
Dual Core Powermac with PCIe cards? Dual G5's with AGP have no issues at all.
texjw said:
LMFAO you've obviously never heard of the XW range of HP workstations then. These are definitely comparable to the Power Mac range, anyone who disagrees hasn't ever used one.
I've got nothing else to add other than hey maybe read up on what you are buying next time. ATI have a X1800XT PCIe card they showed off at MWSF that might be out sometime soon.
texjw said:
Yes, one has a brand new PowerMac G5 with 2GB of RAM in it and the NVIDIA GeForce 6600 (256MB) PCIe.
How much RAM do you have? I wouldn't run Aperture with anything less than 2GB of RAM. I will say that it may not be the hardware thats the problem, but rather the software. Also, realize that Aperture is a 1.0 release (well now its a 1.1 release) so its not going to be perfect and blazingly fast right off. Its a totally new app from the ground up for Apple so there will be bugs and it may seem to be a bit slow. All new Mac apps in my experience seem slow off the initial get go, but as updates come, they get much faster.
I wouldn't let this one issue stop you from buying other Macs. Just because you can't do one thing with it, doesn't mean you can't do anything. Apple is not a whitebox market and never will be so upgrades will always be limited to what manufacturers offer. As Apple grows, more options will be available and software/hardware companies will take Apple more seriously.
IMO, its not Apple's fault that there no OEM cards available to people who buy PCIe PowerMacs. Apple doesn't make video cards, the manufacturers do. Like I said, you just need a little patience and ATI will be providing some PCIe cards for the Mac. I wouldn't be surprised if ATI starts making more Mac/PC combo cards like the ATI Radeon 9600 (or is it 9800?). That would be a win/win situation for everyone.
Before, I was just assuming that you bought the PowerMac for gaming and was complaining about the video card performance like a lot of PC switchers do and I apologize for calling you dumb. You do have a valid argument, but its not Apple's fault IMO. They're not in charge of offering video cards. All they do is design and make the computers. They have no control of the extra peripherals/add ons that connect to them.
I do fully agree with ehurtly. Apple is under no obligation to GIVE anything to anyone at a loss. They're a business just like anyone else and losing money is not what businesses like to do. $100 here and $200 there of losing money on a video card to over 100,000 customers (100,000 PowerMacs sold with your configuration) is a loss of $10 Million, pending everyone is in your situation. Anyways, you see my point about Apple selling things at a loss. Apple is NOT a Dell and has 10's of Billions of dollars in revenues every quarter. So they've can't afford to lose $10+ Million because someone wants a better video card.