Pebble Time 2 Unveiled With 30-Day Battery and ePaper Display

[Stromos]

Man this is great just needs to be popular enough for Apple to release a watch copying the screen tech.

This guy will end up with nothing again. Maybe he will come up with one more idea to be stolen. Pebble Time 3?

Just basing this on the mentality of the Masimo discussion.

EDIT: Man it keeps getting better. I want one to go with my Kickstarter Pebble used to make watch faces for Pebble all the time. No way I am ordering one when it has checkboxes like this:

Duties and customs fees (tariffs) may be added later.

Sounds like a preorder is a contract to force you to pay whatever they decide they “need” once the actual launch happens. This thing could be killed by tariffs. Yes you can cancel and give them a multi month loan.

 

[Jamie0003]

This is where I really miss the Jobs era of Apple, where products actually were differentiated. The Apple Watch lineup should have a band version, the watch, maybe the ultra and maybe one with eink…a variety of choices much like the old iPod lineup….not just cheaper versions of the same product.

Erm….jobs was never about having a million versions of the same product. If anything Tim is more that way

 

[Jamie0003]

Well it is good that Pebble is releasing these models. And it is good that they are asking more people to put pressure on Apple to open up their ecosystem.

Apple's "walled garden" strangles innovation, and at the end of the day you have an Apple watch with the same battery life as the first. Or maybe the battery life is possibly worse. Just think of how much better Apple's own products could be if they faced any real competition without the artificial limitations they impose on other smartwatches.

Hopefully one day Apple will be forced to open up their APIs to all app developers, though it seems unlikely to happen until an entity such as the EU forces them to.

The walled garden that you seem to think so highly of is actually more like a baby pen that you willingly want to be inside of. At least you're not going to be able to lick an electrical outlet, but not everyone with an iPhone wants to be treated like a child.

It’s hilarious how many people on here are so blinded by Apple, that they can do no wrong.

Monopolies are not a good thing people, Apple should absolutely be scrutinised for this and forced to open up more. Competition is a GOOD thing

Also, please can we stop treating trillion dollar corpos like your buddy that only has your best interests at heart. They do not, they just want more money, they would stab a puppy ten times over if it made them more money

 

[Jamie0003]

I don't get what's up with Apple anymore on the AW.

Garmin's Venu X1, also with an OLED screen, is basically the same size as the 46mm S10

But the X1 is thinner and lighter and has a battery life up to 8 days.

Is it doing as much in the background though?

 

[Jamie0003]

shows photos in Retina Quality, runs powerful apps

Erm….whos looking at photos on the Apple Watch? And what powerful apps are those?

 

[turbineseaplane]

Is it doing as much in the background though?

Such as?

 

[Alan Wynn]

I can agree likewise with you, but what could possibly motivate Samsung / Google to remain idle themselves or defer / ignore tech that would allow for week or month long battery life for their own smartwatches?

Maybe because it is about tradeoffs. Apple, Google and Samsung all care more about having high performance processors to enable a smart applications, Garmin, Polar, Suunto, make fitness/sports trackers with minimal smart functionality. While Garmin advertises their Venu X1 as having 8 day battery life, that is without the always on display (that drops one to 2 days). Here are the rest of the specs:

Smartwatch mode: Up to 8 days (2 days display always-on)
Battery Saver Smartwatch mode: Up to 11 days
GPS-Only GNSS mode: Up to 16 hours
All-Systems GNSS mode: Up to 14 hours
All-Systems GNSS mode with music: Up to 7 hours

Vivo Active (discontinued):
Battery life: up to 5 days in smartwatch mode or up to 4 hours when connected to Verizon, using GPS and playing music and using the LiveTrack feature over 4G

Forerunner 945 (only watch with LTE, now discontinued):

Smartwatch Mode: Up to 2 weeks
GPS mode with music: Up to 12 hours
GPS mode with LTE LiveTrack: Up to 10 hours
GPS mode with music and LTE LiveTrack: Up to 7 hours
GPS mode without music: Up to 35 hours

It is not that Garmin has figured out a way to have longer battery life with similar functionality, it is that they have made different choices as to what features matter. I do a walking or running workout with my watch every day (averaging about 3 hours a day), often without my phone, while still being accessible. Garmin does not have a watch that would let me do that without having to charge every day (in fact they do not currently have any watches with LTE/5g). I understand that some want longer battery life, but what are they willing to give up to get it?

 

[Alan Wynn]

I don’t know if that’s true. Outside of the US Garmin are taking huge market share despite Apple crippling their API for third parties. Even in the US many see to be making the switch as Garmin just make better devices.

First, Apple still dominates the worldwide smartwatch market with 21%, despite requiring an iPhone (with a much smaller worldwide smart phone market share than Android). Second, Garmin has not even cracked 10%, so I would have a hard time describing that as “huge market share”. Please define: “better devices”. Are they faster than Apple’s, Google’s, or Samsung’s products? Do they offer more apps? Better connectivity? More or better sensors? They do offer Ant+ (their proprietary protocol), but in what other ways are they “better”?

 

[BigMcGuire]

Yeah I think that's the key. When cellular came out for Apple Watches I was pretty excited. However, those of us with Apple Watches, you do anything with cellular, and battery life drops like a rock. Downloading a 6GB offline workout playlist - my workouts have much less impact on battery life.

I like my Apple Watch Ultra... I wear it all day long except when I'm showering - and I charge it while I'm showering and it's enough to keep the watch going all day, all night. I limit it to 80% to help battery life, after 2 years I'm still 99% health.

I prefer these watches they have a decades long feature called always-on display

View attachment 2537642

These watches are beautiful. I don't see many today but always wanted one when I was younger.

For Always On Display - I find it distracting for smartwatches cuz most of their screens are very colorful. I much prefer AOD off as I find it distracts people less (that and a matte screen protector so it isn't reflecting light like a spotlight).

 

[Jamie0003]

Such as?

That’s what I’m asking, I have no idea.

My point is it’s not always comparible depending on what functions the watch has, it’s not a fair comparison if the Apple Watch is using its gps chip and the other doesn’t have one is it?

 

[turbineseaplane]

That’s what I’m asking, I have no idea.

My point is it’s not always comparible depending on what functions the watch has, it’s not a fair comparison if the Apple Watch is using its gps chip and the other doesn’t have one is it?

The Garmin absolutely has a GPS chip.

Honestly, it just looks like Apple is behind here on the battery life metric.

There's nothing I can find that an AW is doing that should be this much of a relative battery suck.

It's depressing. I wish Apple were trying a LOT harder here.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Garmin's Venu X1, also with an OLED screen, is basically the same size as the 46mm S10

But the X1 is thinner and lighter and has a battery life up to 8 days.

That “up to” is doing a lot of work in that sentence. Here are the actual numbers:

Smartwatch mode: Up to 8 days (2 days display always-on)
Battery Saver Smartwatch mode: Up to 11 days
GPS-Only GNSS mode: Up to 16 hours
All-Systems GNSS mode: Up to 14 hours
All-Systems GNSS mode with music: Up to 7 hours.

It does not offer LTE, so one needs to carry a phone if one wants to remain accessible. It does not meaningfully offer third party smart apps. It has a much slower processor, and a much less functional OS.

They simply make different choices as to what tradeoffs their users want. Glad you found a product you like. It would not work for me at all, as I love to walk/run without my watch but still being accessible and safe (having fall detection coupled with LTE is very important to me). I look forward to Apple adding satellite connectivity.

It does make me laugh that you complain that Apple does not have enough sports features, while touting an 8 day battery life that can only be achieved if one uses none of those features.

 

[racerhomie]

Erm….whos looking at photos on the Apple Watch? And what powerful apps are those?

I sometimes do when I’m not carrying my Phone. I have the recents 500 synced up and favorites. But most importantly I can use any Photos or Album as Photos Watch Face. I personally use favorite Album Artworks as Watch Faces. It’s a very personal and powerful feature to have.

For apps Voice Memos, Browsing Web(micro Browser) for quick answers or headlines, 3rd party meditation and workout apps, and there are others. These are just from the top of my head. There are other apps on the App Store too that are localized. A very powerful CPU(iPhone 6S-7 class) and powerful OS enables these 3rd Party experiences

 

[BigMcGuire]

I used to easily get 72 hours on my AWU2 by turning of AOD, most of the notifications (I do this anyway on my iPhone).

I value having a favorites contact list and those people on that list are able to contact me at any time. I value my text messages being synced to my watch, my music, photos, having weather alerts, being able to do voice memos that sync to my iCloud instantly, etc.

The health data is awesome. I've gone on several runs where I've had to pull up maps to get home - that's also awesome. Being able to answer / make calls with my AirPods - great.

Choice and competition is a good thing. I don't get this Apple VS Pebble stuff. As an Apple Watch owner I see this as awesome - I hope and wish it is successful.

 

[racerhomie]

The Garmin absolutely has a GPS chip.

Honestly, it just looks like Apple is behind here on the battery life metric.

There's nothing I can find that an AW is doing that should be this much of a relative battery suck.

It's depressing. I wish Apple were trying a LOT harder here.

I told you. Apple is pushing the CPU for animations and driving a much more complex OS(watchOS). And they are leaving room for future OS updates, which might use the CPU even more. It’s a conscious choice by Apple. In Low Power Mode Apple Watches can already deliver 3-4 days. They don’t want to give up on features

 

[Alan Wynn]

It’s hilarious how many people on here are so blinded by Apple, that they can do no wrong.

I do not feel that Apple cannot do anything wrong, just that I tend to like the tradeoffs they make, and that many of their business interests align with my desires. As an example, not being primarily an advertising based company makes them able to focus on privacy.

Monopolies are not a good thing people, Apple should absolutely be scrutinised for this and forced to open up more. Competition is a GOOD thing.

One cannot have a monopoly on one’s own product. Worldwide, Apple’s smartphone and computer businesses have well under 50%. While they are the largest share of the smartwatch market, it is only 21% (a huge figure given that Apple Watches require an iPhone). They do have lots of competition. Forcing them to open their APIs, their App stores, etc. takes a way a choice from the market (those who prefer Apple’s curation).

…like your buddy that only has your best interests at heart.

They have their interests at heart. Fortunately, our interests currently align.

 

[lusty]

First, Apple still dominates the worldwide smartwatch market with 21%, despite requiring an iPhone (with a much smaller worldwide smart phone market share than Android). Second, Garmin has not even cracked 10%, so I would have a hard time describing that as “huge market share”. Please define: “better devices”. Are they faster than Apple’s, Google’s, or Samsung’s products? Do they offer more apps? Better connectivity? More or better sensors? They do offer Ant+ (their proprietary protocol), but in what other ways are they “better”?

21% is probably the US market so yes about right.
Better battery, better sensors, better features, better materials, better design, better flashlight both red and white, better inbuilt dive functionality, better fitness platform, better integration with third party platforms…

Can you give an example of how the Apple Watch is better?

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Forcing them to open their APIs, their App stores, etc. takes a way a choice from the market (those who prefer Apple’s curation).

Not really. Consumers within the market could continue to choose Apple's products and Apple's curation. Nobody's telling Apple to stop making watches (well, Masimo is, but this isn't about them).

 

[lusty]

more complex OS(watchOS)

More complex how specifically? Garmin have a very rich OS, development stack and app ecosystem. Someone above was complaining that Apple don’t allow custom watchfaces, well Garmin have a store full of them and a Java like language to make more.

 

[Alan Wynn]

Honestly, it just looks like Apple is behind here on the battery life metric.

Really? When one looks at the usage on which each company bases its predictions it is easy to see the difference and it is not that they have better battery life, it is that they offer less functionality at expect people to do less with their devices.

There's nothing I can find that an AW is doing that should be this much of a relative battery suck.

Here are Apple’s assumptions for 36 hours of battery life:
600 time checks, 180 notifications, 30 minutes of app use, and a 60-minute workout with music playback from Apple Watch via Bluetooth, over the course of 36 hours; Apple Watch Ultra 2 (GPS + Cellular) usage includes a total of 8 hours of LTE connection and 28 hours of connection to iPhone via Bluetooth over the course of 36 hours.

Here are Garmin’s for the Venu X1:

Notifications per Day	50
Number of Interactions per Day	32
Device-Generated Alerts per Day (Move or Goal Alerts)	10
Hours per Day Outside of Bluetooth Range of Phone	1
Display Brightness & Timeout	Default Settings
Watch Face¹	Default
Number of Gestures per Day	750
Pulse Ox Mode	Disabled by Default
Number of Minutes of Music Streaming	0
Number of Timed Activities	0

Apple expects 5 notifications per hour vs. Garmin’s 2.
Apple expects people to play music while doing a workout for 60 minutes a day, while Garmin does not expect any.
Apple expects people to have the device disconnected from one’s phone for 8 of the 36 hours, while Garmin’s numbers assume the phone is connected for 23 hours a day and given its lack of LTE, never without a phone.
Apple expects people to use 30 minutes of app time while Garmin does not expect any.

I keep hearing about how Garmin users really care about sports and fitness, but their extended battery life stats are done assuming that one does almost none of that.

It's depressing. I wish Apple were trying a LOT harder here.

By trying harder here, you mean quoting battery life with completely unrealistic assumptions, while offering less functionality?

 

[BigMcGuire]

Really? When one looks at the usage on which each company bases its predictions it is easy to see the difference and it is not that they have better battery life, it is that they offer less functionality at expect people to do less with their devices.



Here are Apple’s assumptions for 36 hours of battery life:
600 time checks, 180 notifications, 30 minutes of app use, and a 60-minute workout with music playback from Apple Watch via Bluetooth, over the course of 36 hours; Apple Watch Ultra 2 (GPS + Cellular) usage includes a total of 8 hours of LTE connection and 28 hours of connection to iPhone via Bluetooth over the course of 36 hours.

Here are Garmin’s for the Venu X1:

Notifications per Day	50
Number of Interactions per Day	32
Device-Generated Alerts per Day (Move or Goal Alerts)	10
Hours per Day Outside of Bluetooth Range of Phone	1
Display Brightness & Timeout	Default Settings
Watch Face¹	Default
Number of Gestures per Day	750
Pulse Ox Mode	Disabled by Default
Number of Minutes of Music Streaming	0
Number of Timed Activities	0

Apple expects 5 notifications per hour vs. Garmin’s 2.
Apple expects people to play music while doing a workout for 60 minutes a day, while Garmin does not expect any.
Apple expects people to have the device disconnected from one’s phone for 8 of the 36 hours, while Garmin’s numbers assume the phone is connected for 23 hours a day and given its lack of LTE, never without a phone.
Apple expects people to use 30 minutes of app time while Garmin does not expect any.

I keep hearing about how Garmin users really care about sports and fitness, but their extended battery life stats are done assuming that one does almost none of that.



By trying harder here, you mean quoting battery life with completely unrealistic assumptions, while offering less functionality?

To me this seems very logical especially considering the battery sizes on these things - what 250-400 mAh? I think the AWU2 is what, just past 500mAh?

I know guys (runners) who have Garmin watches and they love showing me their health stats / data - it is impressive. You get a lot of interesting answers when you ask how long the battery lasts (if this if that if _____). lol. In the end it's a tiny little 300 mAh battery - you're going to have to cut features somewhere to make it do anything for a period of time.

 

[Alan Wynn]

21% is probably the US market so yes about right.

No, that is the worldwide market share. Their U.S. market share is higher.

Better battery,

It does not have batter better battery, it has different assumptions in calculating battery life and less functionality.

better sensors,

What sensors are better? Based on what metrics? Provide some specifics.

better features,

Again, based on what? Does not offer LTE for standalone use, and has no meaningful third party App Store, something that greatly enhances Apple’s watches. Again, please provide some specifics.

better materials,

Again, based on what? Please provide specifics.

better design,

If you are talking about industrial design, here we simply disagree. For a watch that is used to display data to a user, a square screen is simply better.

better flashlight both red and white,

Yes, some Garmin watches have this.

better inbuilt dive functionality,

Needed because no meaningful third party offerings are available. The third party options for Apple Watches are fantastic.

better fitness platform,

Better in what ways? What are your metrics?

better integration with third party platforms…

What platforms? How is Garmin’s integration better? Specifics.

Can you give an example of how the Apple Watch is better?

Sure. LTE connectivity allows use without a phone and increases safety as even without a subscription one can contact emergency services (or have the watch do so automatically with fall detection), ApplePay offers many more banks. Third party App Store. Apple Watches can be used to unlock my house, an increasing number of cars, hold my University or Work ID for use without a phone for access control or other things. Apple Watches hold boarding passes, concert tickets, and support express mode for use without public transport. Apple Watches have better microphones (three mic array with noise cancelling) and speakers (louder). Apple’s Ultra 2 watch has a brighter display (3,000 nits) than any Garmin product and can go down to a single nit.

Just a few examples with details.

 

[ikir]

I loved my Pebble Kickstarter edition and its multi-day battery life. Can't wait to see the reviews on the new ones....I might ditch my SE2 for one of the new Pebbles. All these years and Apple still can't get at least 3 days battery life is ridiculous.

I charge it when I’m taking the shower and I can track all night sleep, use it all day. People don’t get the fast charge thing, it is like having an infinite battery life. I was a Pebble user but you can’t compare it to any Apple Watch

 

[revenantananias]

It’s time and the clock says 420? Seriously? Hilarious.

 

[chelsel]

I would love an e-Ink display for the Apple Watch!