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Phil Schiller: Apple Will Not Change Decision on 'Hey' Email App, No App Store Rule Updates Imminent

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Apple is not planning to change its App Store rules to accommodate the "Hey" email app that's at the center of a major discussion about Apple's App Store fees and rules, Apple marketing chief Phil Schiller told TechCrunch this afternoon.

heyemailapp.jpg

Schiller says that there are "many things" that Hey's developers could do to make the app work within the existing App Store rules, and Apple would "love for them to do that."

Hey, an email app created by the team that developed Basecamp, is priced at $99 per year. Subscriptions for the service need to be purchased on the Hey website and are not offered in app because Hey's developers don't want to pay a 30 percent cut to Apple.

The current incarnation of the app offers no in-app purchases and no signup options. The app opens straight to a login screen that lets users know that they can't subscribe to the service in the app. Because Apple does not allow for outside links that skirt its in-app purchase options, Hey also offers no link to the website where users can sign up.

Schiller says that this is not an ideal app experience for users.
"You download the app and it doesn't work, that's not what we want on the store," says Schiller. This, he says, is why Apple requires in-app purchases to offer the same purchasing functionality as they would have elsewhere.
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Apple does have a rule that requires apps that offer subscriptions and purchase options on the web and elsewhere to also provide in-app purchases so users can sign up right on an iPhone or an iPad, but the company makes an exception for "Reader" apps.

Netflix and Spotify, for example, have apps in the App Store where users can't sign up for their services in the app itself and must already have an existing account. Hey wanted to use the same exception as other "Reader" apps, which Apple views as apps that display external content like music, books, and movies, but Schiller says that Hey does not qualify as a "Reader" app.

"We didn't extend these exceptions to all software," said Schiller. "Email is not and has never been an exception included in this rule." According to Schiller, Apple made an error approving the original version of the Hey app, and it should have been rejected. Apple did actually reject Hey's Mac App Store app, but the iOS app slipped by.

TechCrunch's Matthew Panzarino asked Schiller if he expects Apple to get a portion of the revenue of every business that has an app, regardless of whether it was iOS first, but he said "that's not what [Apple's] doing."

Schiller said that Hey's developers have a number of options to comply with Apple's rules to remain in the App Store, such as charging different prices in the app and on the web, or offering a free version with additional paid functions that could be purchased through the Hey website.
One way that Hey could have gone, Schiller says, is to offer a free or paid version of the app with basic email reading features on the App Store then separately offered an upgraded email service that worked with the Hey app on iOS on its own website. Schiller gives one more example: an RSS app that reads any feed, but also reads an upgraded feed that could be charged for on a separate site. In both cases, the apps would have functionality when downloaded on the store.
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Apple also provided TechCrunch with a copy of the letter that was sent to the Hey team, which outlines the rules that Hey has violated and explains that Apple is happy to provide a platform for the team to distribute apps for free, so long as the rules are followed.
"Thank you for being an iOS app developer. We understand that Basecamp has developed a number of apps and many subsequent versions for the App Store for many years, and that the App Store has distributed millions of these apps to iOS users. These apps do not offer in-app purchase -- and, consequently, have not contributed any revenue to the App Store over the last eight years. We are happy to continue to support you in your app business and offer you the solutions to provide your services for free -- so long as you follow and respect the same App Store Review Guidelines and terms that all developers must follow."
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Schiller's full comments on the situation, as well as Apple's complete letter to Hey, can be read over on TechCrunch, and a summary of the rejection and Hey's thoughts on the matter can be found here.

Article Link: Phil Schiller: Apple Will Not Change Decision on 'Hey' Email App, No App Store Rule Updates Imminent
 
Article Link
https://www.macrumors.com/2020/06/18/phil-schiller-apple-hey-decision-no-changes/
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Could App developers offer 2 prices?
1) website price (example $100)
2) in app purchase price (example $135)

then there’s an in app option where the developer does not have to take the apple price increase (assuming customer is willing to do that)

or does apple’s app rules prevent something like that also?
 
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arkmannj said:
Could App developers offer 2 prices?
1) website price (example $100)
2) in app purchase price (example $135)

then there’s an in app option where the developer does not have to take the apple price increase (assuming customer is willing to do that)

or does apple’s app rules prevent something like that also?
Click to expand...
You can charge two different prices between your own website and IAP, but you absolutely cannot mention that there’s any other way to pay than IAP in your app, and your communications about other ways to pay cannot be “designed to discourage the use of” IAP. You certainly cannot directly offer those other ways to pay in the app.
 
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How and why? There are other apps that do that (Netflix is a great example) and this is just Apple being greedy.

Their distinction between the two is hilarious at best. If Netflix wasn't huge and was just starting they would do the same to them. Apple is wrong here, its just pure greed.
But we know thats whats Apple is all about these days.




wilhoitm said:
I am on Apple's side on this one! And I am an iOS Developer too!
Click to expand...
 
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Hey is a free download, but it's a revenue stream for Hey. And since it's free on the App Store, Apple makes nothing, and Hey reaps the benefits. That's dumb. I am not on Hey's side.

The only sketchy thing is Apple letting bigger companies (Netflix) get away with doing the same thing, except it makes sense from a corporate politics standpoint because tons of people would be pissed if Netflix pulled their iOS app in protest, and no one would care if Hey went away.
 
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jonblatho said:
You can charge two different prices between your own website and IAP, but you absolutely cannot mention that there’s any other way to pay than IAP in your app, and your communications about other ways to pay cannot be “designed to discourage the use of” IAP. You certainly cannot directly offer those other ways to pay in the app.
Click to expand...
thanks that’s interesting to know.
 
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Well Phil (can’t innovate anymore my ass) Schiller, WHAT IS A READER APP? Define what a “reader” app is in English. I mean an email app seems like the perfect example of a reader app compared to Netflix since you can.. you know actually read emails!

I hope the EU slams them for this. A multi billion dollar corporation can certainly afford to clarify and enforce policies equally.

"You download the app and it doesn't work, that's not what we want on the store," says Schiller. This, he says, is why Apple requires in-app purchases to offer the same purchasing functionality as they would have elsewhere.
Click to expand...

So why is Netflix, Spotify, etc on the App Store then? Explain that one Phil!
 
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arkmannj said:
Could App developers offer 2 prices?
1) website price (example $100)
2) in app purchase price (example $135)

then there’s an in app option where the developer does not have to take the apple price increase (assuming customer is willing to do that)

or does apple’s app rules prevent something like that also?
Click to expand...

I think they can. On Twitch you can donate to streamers using in-app purchase but the prices are higher than on their website, so I guess it’s because of that.
 
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Here’s the thing. Apple is paying for the servers that process the in-app payment, the credit card processing, handling all the charge disputes and chargebacks/fraud requests from the credit card company, etc.

That’s not a $0 Bill for Apple. Credit card chargebacks cost businesses a significant amount of money, as well as employing the iTunes App Store support agents, data center infrastructure, they designed and built Xcode, add new features to iOS that enable new features in the apps, handle push notifications, etc.

And the yearly developer fee of $99 in no way covers all of that. So they have to take a cut somewhere.
 
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arkmannj said:
Could App developers offer 2 prices?
1) website price (example $100)
2) in app purchase price (example $135)

then there’s an in app option where the developer does not have to take the apple price increase (assuming customer is willing to do that)

or does apple’s app rules prevent something like that also?
Click to expand...
Sure you can, but the rules forbid the developer from telling the customer that they could sign up elsewhere, so how would the average John Smith know about the cheaper $100 price of Apple rejects apps that advertise that option?
 
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Why don’t developers just protest? I remember a year or two ago one developer went around finding out how many developers were ticked off with Apple’s nonsense. I signed up and then never heard a peep from them.

Epic is on our side.

A considerable portion of the Linux/Android/Windows users are on our side, too.

Can we not just get an angry crowd gathered picketing outside Apple HQ and get media to show up? Seems like a story Apple would want to end ASAP.
 
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ouimetnick said:
Well Phil (can’t innovate anymore my ass) Schiller, WHAT IS A READER APP? Define what a “reader” app is in English. I mean an email app seems like the perfect example of a reader app compared to Netflix since you can.. you know actually read emails!

I hope the EU slams them for this. A multi billion dollar corporation can certainly afford to clarify and enforce policies equally.
Click to expand...


But you can also compose/send emails with Hey. You can't create/edit/send/upload videos with Netflix.
 
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cualexander said:
Here’s the thing. Apple is paying for the servers that process the in-app payment, the credit card processing, handling all the charge disputes and chargebacks/fraud requests from the credit card company, etc.

That’s not a $0 Bill for Apple. Credit card chargebacks cost businesses a significant amount of money, as well as employing the iTunes App Store support agents, data center infrastructure, they designed and built Xcode, add new features to iOS that enable new features in the apps, handle push notifications, etc.

And the yearly developer fee of $99 in no way covers all of that. So they have to take a cut somewhere.
Click to expand...

In this particular example, the developer wants nothing to do with Apple's payment processing or in-app payment features. They already have the infrastructure to handle credit cards, chargebacks, etc. on their end.

I'm a bit torn on this one. I get that it's Apple's store and policies, but they need to pick a direction and stick to it. Netflix only gets a pass because they are the leader, and customers would revolt if they couldn't get a Netflix app on their phones or iPads due to some penny pinching technicality. The other categories are pretty arbitrary; "cloud based storage", certainly an argument could be made that email constitutes cloud based storage of a kind. Why does it make sense for some cloud box app that doesn't function without a subscription to be on the App Store but not this email client? Their justifications are tenuous at best.
 
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cualexander said:
Here’s the thing. Apple is paying for the servers that process the in-app payment, the credit card processing, handling all the charge disputes and chargebacks/fraud requests from the credit card company, etc.

That’s not a $0 Bill for Apple. Credit card chargebacks cost businesses a significant amount of money, as well as employing the iTunes App Store support agents, data center infrastructure, they designed and built Xcode, add new features to iOS that enable new features in the apps, handle push notifications, etc.

And the yearly developer fee of $99 in no way covers all of that. So they have to take a cut somewhere.
Click to expand...

That has nothing to do with this specifics app’s situation. Hey doesn’t want to collect payments using any of Apple’s systems.
 
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Now that it’s been clarified why Hey is in non compliance with the App Store rules and Apple has given Hey very reasonable ways in which to get into compliance that does not require them to fork over 30% of their revenue, I’m siding with Apple.

Sounds to me like Hey just wanted to raise a storm to attract attention to their new product. The easiest way to fix this would be to charge 99 cents to download the app which would make it usable for a week or whatever, bringing it into compliance.
 
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