Please help - no HDR / chroma 4:4:4 on Apple TV, works with PS4.

[hamiltonDSi]

Last week I bought the following :

a) Apple TV 4K
compatible with HDR and chroma 4:4:4 - specs

b) Sony Bravia 55XE7005 4K
compatible with HDR and chroma 4:4:4 - specs

c) Sony STR-DH590 A/V Receiver - 4K
compatible with HDR and chroma 4:4:4 - specs

d) Trust GXT 730 High-Speed 2.0 HDMI Cable w/ ethernet up to 18Gbps
compatible with HDR and chroma 4:4:4 - specs

First of all I would like to say that I have no problem with HDR on my PS4, only on Apple TV using the same setup.

This is what happens :

I turn the TV on and set it to HDR mode.
After that I wake the Apple TV from sleep and go to Settings / Video and Audio / Enable HDR / Try HDR.
I select 'Try HDR' -> the screen goes black and the resolution changes to 1080p, after to 480p (the screen stays black) and finally the TV displays the 'No Signal' pop-up.
And thats it.. no image with HDR turned ON.

Now with Chroma 4:4:4 ; Again I go to Settings / Video and Audio / Chroma / Try Chroma 4:4:4.. and guess what happens.. the screen goes black and yet again the 'No Signal' pop-up appears, just like when I try to enable HDR.


The Apple TV has the latest non-beta version of tvOS installed and the TV has the latest version of Android OS as well.

And, yes - the cables are in the HDR ports.
Aaaand again, HDR works with the PS4 using the exact same setup. So it's something with the Apple TV.

I tried everything.. reseted every video setting I could find and start over..
Why isn't my Apple TV displaying content in HDR and 4:4:4 ?

Thanks !

 

[400]

You mention an amp, both feeds going to the amp then amp feeding TV? Tried going ATV direct to the TV, if the amp is in circuit? Or swapping the PS4 and ATV inputs?

Don't know the TV, mine switches in automatically when HDR is there, no signal seems to say something not happy with top of the shop settings, what does the playstation O/P in 4k? Which brings obvious question, you know the PS4 is outputting 4k?

If the cables are certified "High speed" then there should be no issues with them.

 

[Zimmy68]

Quick question (and you may already mentioned), are you using the exact same input as the PS4?
For some reason TV mfgs still to this day do not give every HDMI input the same specs.
It drove me crazy when I got my first 4k TV.
Anyway, If you PS4 is showing it is compatible with all 4k specs, I would unplug the HDMI from the back of the PS4 and put it into the Apple4kTV.
It will eliminate a lot of troubleshooting.

 

[priitv8]

Have you enabled hdmi enhanced mode on both the avr and tv?
Also be sure to connect your HDR 4:4:4 source only to hdmi 2 or 3 on the Bravia! (Yes, its mentioned in the rtfm).
The other two are low speed ports.
BTW the effect you will get from 4:4:4 is negligible compared to the hassle and nerves you are spending. That’s just my opinion.

 

[400]

What is in 4:4:4 anyhoo?

Mine is set to that cos I can, not that I have seen anything use it.

Edit. Doh. 4:2:2 on normal.

Not p[layed with this for a while and I am on beta....
4K SDR and 4:4;4 is available. 4K in HDR and 4:2:2 is the norm.

 

[hamiltonDSi]

Thank you all for your help.
I see that beta6 got out just now, maybe I should jump on the beta vagon and see if tvOS12 makes a change ?

My old Apple TV 4th Gen (1080p) is on tvOS12 beta and it's usable. I really don't have any problems with it.

You mention an amp, both feeds going to the amp then amp feeding TV? Tried going ATV direct to the TV, if the amp is in circuit? Or swapping the PS4 and ATV inputs?

Don't know the TV, mine switches in automatically when HDR is there, no signal seems to say something not happy with top of the shop settings, what does the playstation O/P in 4k? Which brings obvious question, you know the PS4 is outputting 4k?

The amp has 5 HDMI ports all HDR and 4:4:4 compatible.
The ATV is plugged in the 'mediabox' port and the PS4 in the 'game' port.
The amp is connected to the TV via the HDMI 2 port (enhanced enabled).

The PS4 is not 4k, it's the 2013 original model (1080p) but got HDR support in a software update about a year ago or so.
I know HDR works because a) i can see it's enabled in the PS4 settings c) when i turn the TV's HDR mode on it looks awesome b) my games let me toggle HDR settings. So it's 100% percent working.

I tried plugin the ATV4 directly into the HDMI2 port and no luck.

And yeah, my TV has auto mode also, but i like to select it myself.

Quick question (and you may already mentioned), are you using the exact same input as the PS4?
If you PS4 is showing it is compatible with all 4k specs, I would unplug the HDMI from the back of the PS4 and put it into the Apple4kTV.
It will eliminate a lot of troubleshooting.

Yep, I unplugged the HDMI from the back of the PS4 and put it into the ATV4K but no luck.
I also did some more troubleshooting (please read the above quoted post).

Have you enabled hdmi enhanced mode on both the avr and tv?
Also be sure to connect your HDR 4:4:4 source only to hdmi 2 or 3 on the Bravia! (Yes, its mentioned in the rtfm).
BTW the effect you will get from 4:4:4 is negligible compared to the hassle and nerves you are spending. That’s just my opinion.

The amp is connected to the HDMI2 port and it's enhanced enabled.
I also connected the ATV4K to the TV into the HDMI2 port and no success.

trust me, chroma 4:4:4 is worth it !
check this out


4:4:4
http://origin.rtings.com/images/rev.../ju7100-text-chroma-4k-60hz-pc-mode-large.jpg

4:2:2
http://origin.rtings.com/images/reviews/tv/samsung/ju7100/ju7100-text-chroma-4k-30hz-large.jpg

4:2:0
http://origin.rtings.com/images/reviews/tv/samsung/ju7100/ju7100-text-chroma-4k-60hz-large.jpg

Source : rtings.com

4K SDR and 4:4;4 is available. 4K in HDR and 4:2:2 is the norm.

Yep, I know. Thats what I want !
..but I can't choose 4:4:4 on 4K SDR or activate HDR.

 

[400]

PS4 not 4k? Not a good comparison. 1080p then, 1/4 bandwidth or so. You sure the HDMI cables are “high speed”?

Plug a tv direct to tv see what happens.

 

[priitv8]

trust me, chroma 4:4:4 is worth it !
check this out

You can see this only in tvOS UI. No consumer movie, tv series, camera or device records in that format.
Broadcast, Blu-Ray and your own camera, they all are only capable of 4:2:0 at 8 bit. UHD bluray in HDR brings it to 10 bits, but chroma subsampling remains at 4:2:0.
The tvOS UI does not matter for me, I mostly use mine to watch movies or listen to music.
Oh, forgot, if you are playing tvOS games, then you might see it as well.

 

[niteflyr]

Yep, I know. Thats what I want !
..but I can't choose 4:4:4 on 4K SDR or activate HDR.

This sounds like a cable issue. I know you have purchased high speed cables, but have you tried different cables? I had a similar issue when I first got my ATV4K, new receiver, and new television. Different cables fixed it for me.

 

[priitv8]

I use the rather standard Sony DLC-HE20BSK cables and no issues with HDR or 4:4:4 chroma.

 

[400]

Does sound cable but...... Cable should work if correctly certified and applied to the task. If it is not working then ask for a replacement from the vendor after proving the fault. I would expect a "High Speed" cable to work here, I know this because mine are "High Speed" and certified and work when I select 4k SDR @ 4:4:4.

e.g. in the UK (EU?) there is a 30 day window to return anything for any reason bought on line and a full refund (not postage unless faulty). Not sure what other countries are like for this.

@hamiltonDSi, The cable you link to mentions HDMI 2.0, and 18ghz ("premium" certification territory) standards for cables are "High Speed" or "Premium" etc. not HDMI 2 or 18ghz. It may be a labelling and advertising thing, and the cable is correctly certified, is there anything on the cable saying "high speed" or "premium"?

HDMI specs here.
https://www.hdmi.org/consumer/finding_right_cable.aspx

If you have plugged the ATV direct to the TV and it still does not work, drop the settings to 1080i or something less than 4k to see where it starts to work. With the correct HDMI input and TV settings correctly set for 4k the correct cable, it should work. You could also drop the settings to minimum 4k to see if it works.

Personally I would not put the amp back in circuit until you have the ATV working into the TV directly, that will mean you have a known working source and destination. Any other issues are the amp in the circuit and required settings for that.

You can see this only in tvOS UI. No consumer movie, tv series, camera or device records in that format.
Broadcast, Blu-Ray and your own camera, they all are only capable of 4:2:0 at 8 bit. UHD bluray in HDR brings it to 10 bits, but chroma subsampling remains at 4:2:0.
The tvOS UI does not matter for me, I mostly use mine to watch movies or listen to music.
Oh, forgot, if you are playing tvOS games, then you might see it as well.

Live broadcast to the studio is often 422 10 bit (HD and 4K), not sure what happens down stream, guessing the rule of bandwidth vs cost comes into play.

 

[hamiltonDSi]

PS4 not 4k? Not a good comparison. 1080p then, 1/4 bandwidth or so. You sure the HDMI cables are “high speed”?

Plug a tv direct to tv see what happens.

Hey,

I posted the cable specs in my first post.
GXT 730 High-Speed 2.0 HDMI Cable w/ ethernet up to 18Gbps.
Check the url.

And yes, i tried directly to the TV. Also said that.

Thanks !

 

[400]

Hey,

I posted the cable specs in my first post.
GXT 730 High-Speed 2.0 HDMI Cable w/ ethernet up to 18Gbps.
Check the url.

And yes, i tried directly to the TV. Also said that.

Thanks !

Apologies, did not mean it to sound that way.
Just trying to be sure they are high speed (there is mis selling though not saying that is the case here). I did look at the link, it seemed to say a lot but confused. There are certain definitions not a mix of all.

Later post has more info you could try. I would drop the spec on the ATV output and see where it starts to work direct to the TV. It might clarify the cables capability.

 

[Guda.FL]

“I turn the TV on and set it to HDR mode.
After that I wake the Apple TV from sleep and go to Settings / Video and Audio / Enable HDR / Try HDR.
I select 'Try HDR' -> the screen goes black and the resolution changes to 1080p, after to 480p (the screen stays black) and finally the TV displays the 'No Signal' pop-up.
And thats it.. no image with HDR turned ON.”

Happens to me, but not always. I have few other issues with streaming 4k only media and has sound interruptions whilst other devices do not with same content.

Im pretty much convinced that its atv and or software related. They pushed a few hdr software updates in past and could just be a software \ hardware tuning issue at this point.

 

[cynics]

Are you using HDMI 2 or 3 on the TV? Do you have that HDMI port in the Sony settings set to 'Enhanced'?

Every option available should work for you.

However keep in mind there is no options for 10 bit colors (HDR) with 4:4:4. You can see all the settings that are available.

First and most obviously 4k@60hz HDR with 4:4:4 (no subsampling) far exceeds the bandwidth of HDMI 2.0. 4k60 HDR 4:4:4 would require around 23 gbps while current HDMI 2.0 caps at 18 gbps. HDMI 2.1 (released after the AppleTV 4k) is required for that amount of bandwidth.

Second, your comparison above is with subsampling is accurate but very deceptive at the same time. That is PC content at full chroma (4:4:4) YCbCr, aka 8 bit color. So if you want that just set your AppleTV to 4k SDR 4:4:4. Mastering is done at 4:4:4 but even UHD Blue Ray format spec is 4:2:0 subsampling.

Sony actually recommended keeping the AppleTV set to 4:2:0 due to color banding. I believe tvOS 11.2 has sorted that out making movies, tv, video, etc viewed using 4:2:2 near identical to 4:2:0, no longer worse.

My suggestion to anyone is to use 4k HDR with matching frame rates and experiment with chroma. 4:2:2 can have its benefits with the UI so as long as you don't see any negative effects (which you likely won't) I would leave it on.

 

[roidy]

Are you using HDMI 2 or 3 on the TV? Do you have that HDMI port in the Sony settings set to 'Enhanced'?

I completely agree with everything you said but I will add that if you don't want or need the UI to be displayed in 4k HDR, you can actually get away with connecting the ATV to one of the non-enhanced HDMI ports and still be able to display 4k 24hz HDR 4:2:0 content with no problems. This is what I do because both the enhanced HDMI ports on my Sony TV are taken up by a PC and a PS4.